Brexit and the Consequences

mike.

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2012
2,075
684
123
Maybe, just maybe, it’s because “the process” was not as straightforward as it was advertised. David Davis, after all, sat on his hands for months and came up with nothing. Well, the EU who needed us more than we needed them were going to come to him pleading for a deal weren’t they? That went well.
Maybe the its the process that she is trying to push through is not straightforward, They are financially struggling over there and are in decline, There is no doubt about that, And they know we have the British mentality to muster on if things are rocky after/if we leave without a deal and it scares them stiff.. They are playing the ultimate poker game and playing a good hand to protect their precious freedoms and i understand that, who wouldn't, ? furthermore, they are backed up by those over here who support the EU and those who are trying to thwart the leaving process. It looked like it was going to be straightforward in the beginning, A PM who was elected on a leave manifesto and said she would carry out that promise, David Davis who was a brexiteer doing the negotiating, what could go wrong ? Leave but remain in was always her plan.
 

Atilla

Well-known member
Nov 15, 2006
18,325
2,542
323
Brexiteers are overjoyed and any bit of needling that goes against the EU they are all over it mouthing off we told you EU is braking up.

However, there is something really profoundly strange about what they are so joyous about.

Italy, been spending too much and wants to spend more.

France, yellow vests more money and easier life, less austerity. More public spending.

On both those fronts Brexiteers, the Tory party and daily trash press would be having a field day screaming blue murder and how Corbyn is such a mega threat to the UK with similar policies. Yet when it is across the pond and aimed at the EU, same bodies are in very much favour of left wing movements in Italy and France.


I find that strange as there is some major inconsistency in their belief system and how the three elements treated.

Similar to Greece when the push comes to shove and EU holds the line, those people will step in to line. If they don't that's also fine. Just remember we've been hear before.

People like Moggy may suggest Greece had a referendum and were made to do it again but we all know the story. EU accepted Greece referendum just simply said no to any more help without reforms. Banks were denied access to more funding and you all know the rest of the story.

Has nought to do with EU but peoples choices, realising they weren't really offered chocolate but something else that was brown and sticky but sugar coated with some politicians words. :devilish:
 

barjon

Well-known member
May 6, 2003
10,087
1,489
223
78
But isn't that because culturally we are different from the Europeans? History shows that we don't act and think like they do – and the current state of affairs reflects just that.
Maybe, but in general I feel much more culturally at home in western Europe than in USA (for example).
 
Likes: Atilla

mike.

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2012
2,075
684
123
Iv'e just come across this. Sums up the situation. I feel were at that point now where anything remainers say will be disregarded by brexiteers and vice versa, But anyway...





There are now seven weeks to go until the UK is due to leave the EU, and things are getting messier and angrier by the day. Well, there’s a surprise.
Faced with Mrs May’s request from the British parliament to compromise on the Irish backstop, as a result of which it might then agree to a deal, the EU told the UK to go to hell.
Donald Tusk, the EU Council president, observed on Twitter: “I’ve been wondering what that special place in hell looks like, for those who promoted Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely.”
To which the EU’s Brexit co-ordinator Guy Verhofstadt added: “I doubt Lucifer would welcome them, as after what they did to Britain they would even manage to divide Hell.”
The European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker has said the backstop cannot be replaced; Martin Selmayr, chief of the EU civil service, said Mrs May’s request wasn’t even being considered.
Such arrogant and contemptuous bullying has enraged even some Remainers. Just who do they think they are, people are fuming. Well, this is what they are, and this is why the UK wants to leave the EU.
In accordance with their customary Mafia-style tactics, the Eurocrats believe they have made the UK an offer it cannot refuse. All that’s needed now is for Mrs May to wake up in Downing Street to find a dismembered leg in her bed shod in a leopard-print shoe.
This EU reaction was always entirely predictable. As Fraser Nelson says in today’s Telegraph, its leaders think they must demonstrate that leaving the EU entails unbearable agony. This is because they are all too aware that in several member states, more and more people are expressing a fervent desire to leave. To nip this in the bud, the EU cannot let the UK be seen to prosper from Brexit.
The inescapable implication of that, however, is that they know the UK will indeed prosper. Predictions by the Bank of England and other solidly Remainer institutions that a vote for Brexit would cause the economy to collapse have proved to date spectacularly wrong.
Now the Bank’s same forecasting geniuses have downgraded its growth forecast for 2019 from 1.7 per cent to 1.2 per cent. But although the Bank’s Governor, Mark Carney, repeatedly warns against a no-deal Brexit, he has acknowledged that the downgrade is due to a slowing global economy as well as Brexit uncertainty.
As he said: “The fog of Brexit is causing short-term volatility in the economic data and, more fundamentally, it’s creating a series of tensions.” And the Bank added: “The economic outlook will continue to depend significantly on the nature of EU withdrawal, in particular the new trading arrangements between the EU and the UK, whether the transition to them is abrupt or smooth, and how households, businesses and financial markets respond.”
Quite. The fact is that no-one knows what’s going to happen; and financial markets hate uncertainty above all else. But it stands to reason that, notwithstanding some unavoidable problems and shocks along the way, the world’s fifth largest economy will, when freed of its EU shackles, ultimately do well.
Only last month, Carney told the Commons Treasury Select Committee: “Financial stability risks around [the EU exit] process are greater on the continent than they are in the UK. There is a tremendous financial services capacity in Britain and even though there will be shortfalls at the point of leaving [depending on the exit arrangement], these are more likely to affect Europe”.
You bet. The EU is currently staring at its own increasing political and economic wreckage. The Eurozone has been given an economic downgrade. The German economy is poised at the edge of recession. In France, the self-styled heir to Napoleon and Jupiter, President Emmanuel Macron, has failed to quash the “yellow vests” uprising and is quarrelling with Italy and Germany. The upcoming EU elections may return a slew of eurosceptic commissioners and bring the agenda of “ever-closer union” to a juddering halt.
And Brexit could deliver in addition a possibly fatal wounding blow.
The Eurocrats’ strategy rests on their belief that the UK will be so frightened by leaving with no deal that at the last minute parliament will cave in and vote to support the deal the EU brokered with Mrs May.
Some believe that prospect has improved with the olive branch offered to Mrs May by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, in the form of a set of “compromise” conditions on the basis of which Labour would support her deal.
As has been widely observed, it’s hard to see how this could happen since he is sticking to Labour’s insistence that after Brexit there must be a customs union arrangement with the EU – which means not leaving EU control at all.
Some, though, think that enough “soft” Labour Brexiteers will want to accept this compromise, enabling Mrs May to isolate the true Brexiteers in parliament and thus get her deal through.
But that would mean Mrs May suddenly forgetting what she has understood all along in having made a customs union/single market her red lines. This is that Brexiteers know these options would clearly negate the referendum result; and then they would never vote Conservative again and the party might even break apart altogether.
As March 29 approaches, the British should have one thing in mind above all: that the EU are digging in like this because they are terrified of Brexit. And the reason for that is that if Britain leaves the EU, not through Mrs May’s Brexit-in-name-only-Remain-by-stealth deal but through a clear, undeniable, unequivocal departure, the EU knows this will accelerate its own disintegration while it watches the UK start to prosper.
 
Aug 21, 2004
9,147
2,305
323
Manchester
Iv'e just come across this. Sums up the situation. I feel were at that point now where anything remainers say will be disregarded by brexiteers and vice versa, But anyway...





There are now seven weeks to go until the UK is due to leave the EU, and things are getting messier and angrier by the day. Well, there’s a surprise.
Faced with Mrs May’s request from the British parliament to compromise on the Irish backstop, as a result of which it might then agree to a deal, the EU told the UK to go to hell.
Donald Tusk, the EU Council president, observed on Twitter: “I’ve been wondering what that special place in hell looks like, for those who promoted Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely.”
To which the EU’s Brexit co-ordinator Guy Verhofstadt added: “I doubt Lucifer would welcome them, as after what they did to Britain they would even manage to divide Hell.”
The European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker has said the backstop cannot be replaced; Martin Selmayr, chief of the EU civil service, said Mrs May’s request wasn’t even being considered.
Such arrogant and contemptuous bullying has enraged even some Remainers. Just who do they think they are, people are fuming. Well, this is what they are, and this is why the UK wants to leave the EU.
In accordance with their customary Mafia-style tactics, the Eurocrats believe they have made the UK an offer it cannot refuse. All that’s needed now is for Mrs May to wake up in Downing Street to find a dismembered leg in her bed shod in a leopard-print shoe.
This EU reaction was always entirely predictable. As Fraser Nelson says in today’s Telegraph, its leaders think they must demonstrate that leaving the EU entails unbearable agony. This is because they are all too aware that in several member states, more and more people are expressing a fervent desire to leave. To nip this in the bud, the EU cannot let the UK be seen to prosper from Brexit.
The inescapable implication of that, however, is that they know the UK will indeed prosper. Predictions by the Bank of England and other solidly Remainer institutions that a vote for Brexit would cause the economy to collapse have proved to date spectacularly wrong.
Now the Bank’s same forecasting geniuses have downgraded its growth forecast for 2019 from 1.7 per cent to 1.2 per cent. But although the Bank’s Governor, Mark Carney, repeatedly warns against a no-deal Brexit, he has acknowledged that the downgrade is due to a slowing global economy as well as Brexit uncertainty.
As he said: “The fog of Brexit is causing short-term volatility in the economic data and, more fundamentally, it’s creating a series of tensions.” And the Bank added: “The economic outlook will continue to depend significantly on the nature of EU withdrawal, in particular the new trading arrangements between the EU and the UK, whether the transition to them is abrupt or smooth, and how households, businesses and financial markets respond.”
Quite. The fact is that no-one knows what’s going to happen; and financial markets hate uncertainty above all else. But it stands to reason that, notwithstanding some unavoidable problems and shocks along the way, the world’s fifth largest economy will, when freed of its EU shackles, ultimately do well.
Only last month, Carney told the Commons Treasury Select Committee: “Financial stability risks around [the EU exit] process are greater on the continent than they are in the UK. There is a tremendous financial services capacity in Britain and even though there will be shortfalls at the point of leaving [depending on the exit arrangement], these are more likely to affect Europe”.
You bet. The EU is currently staring at its own increasing political and economic wreckage. The Eurozone has been given an economic downgrade. The German economy is poised at the edge of recession. In France, the self-styled heir to Napoleon and Jupiter, President Emmanuel Macron, has failed to quash the “yellow vests” uprising and is quarrelling with Italy and Germany. The upcoming EU elections may return a slew of eurosceptic commissioners and bring the agenda of “ever-closer union” to a juddering halt.
And Brexit could deliver in addition a possibly fatal wounding blow.
The Eurocrats’ strategy rests on their belief that the UK will be so frightened by leaving with no deal that at the last minute parliament will cave in and vote to support the deal the EU brokered with Mrs May.
Some believe that prospect has improved with the olive branch offered to Mrs May by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, in the form of a set of “compromise” conditions on the basis of which Labour would support her deal.
As has been widely observed, it’s hard to see how this could happen since he is sticking to Labour’s insistence that after Brexit there must be a customs union arrangement with the EU – which means not leaving EU control at all.
Some, though, think that enough “soft” Labour Brexiteers will want to accept this compromise, enabling Mrs May to isolate the true Brexiteers in parliament and thus get her deal through.
But that would mean Mrs May suddenly forgetting what she has understood all along in having made a customs union/single market her red lines. This is that Brexiteers know these options would clearly negate the referendum result; and then they would never vote Conservative again and the party might even break apart altogether.
As March 29 approaches, the British should have one thing in mind above all: that the EU are digging in like this because they are terrified of Brexit. And the reason for that is that if Britain leaves the EU, not through Mrs May’s Brexit-in-name-only-Remain-by-stealth deal but through a clear, undeniable, unequivocal departure, the EU knows this will accelerate its own disintegration while it watches the UK start to prosper.
Yep that just about sums it up. They forgot to mention that they need us more than we need them, which is as true today as it was when that claim was made 3 years ago.
 
Aug 21, 2004
9,147
2,305
323
Manchester
Maybe, but in general I feel much more culturally at home in western Europe than in USA (for example).
I think we pretty much all think this except to say that we would prefer it if each of the European countries kept their identities as opposed to this centralised nonsensical experiment that they are ploughing on with.

As far as the USA is concerned, I'm no fan of doing any sort of trade deal with them. I can't see much upside in that kind of arrangement, but there would be lots of potential for downside.
 

0007

Well-known member
Jun 19, 2005
2,060
464
93
I think we pretty much all think this except to say that we would prefer it if each of the European countries kept their identities as opposed to this centralised nonsensical experiment that they are ploughing on with.

Have to disagree with you on that – can only speak for myself but I feel much more culturally in common with Americans and I find that unsurprising seeing as one of the reasons the founders departed England was due to the imposition and enforcement a new religious/political regime.

As far as the USA is concerned, I'm no fan of doing any sort of trade deal with them. I can't see much upside in that kind of arrangement, but there would be lots of potential for downside.

As in all trade deals there is scope for screwup but at least we would have the choice provided we have the right people leading.
It all comes down to leadership in the end – It's a shame there isn't any!
 
Aug 21, 2004
9,147
2,305
323
Manchester
I have doubts that Farage can get together another Brexit party in time.
Without another referendum it wouldn't really matter anyway.
The whole point of any new Brexit party is to be ready for any European elections in May. If May kicks any deal down the road and we get an extension, then it follows that we will need representatives in the EU parliament.

As far as I can see, there's bugger all chance of another Brexit referendum, or for that matter, a peoples vote on any deal. If politicians have learned one thing from all this........never ask the people what they think, cos they might just tell you and you might not like the answer. :LOL:
 

Pat494

Well-known member
Mar 27, 2004
13,177
1,259
223
Germany is going to get very frustrated by the useless Socialist states sponging off them.
Then what ?
A crack in the door for the extreme rightists ?
The workshy Spanish could expand their old people's retirement in the sun opportunities with not much effort.