Pat494
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I doubt that he fufilled that role willingly or knowingly.
The Tories are better off without him near the top and his childish antics.
I doubt that he fufilled that role willingly or knowingly.
The Tories are better off without him near the top and his childish antics.
Pat494
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Matching Corbyn in stubborness when the inevitable is obvious.
A new me me me ………...policy.
You refer to "The Tories" as if it was a single united and unified body of people with a well detailed and visible common purpose........
sminicooper
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That's the void waiting to be filled ................ by anybody or any party!
counter_violent
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sminicooper
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The Maybot has been very unwise in making plain her unsubtle preference for the EU over the President.
counter_violent
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Aye. More resignations today and a certain public lethargy at the moment, given the situation. Although I expect the public's attention is diverted cos of the footy. That should change next week!
Yeah, she is so out of tune with whats going on in the world. Staggering really.
mike.
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Dan Hannan said the plan was just about workable in its present form, it’s right on the very edge. The trouble is the concessions she gives when presenting to the EU . Why didn’t we see this coming ? All the tough words about delivering Brexit. Like mentioned earlier, we could possibly chip away at various agreements over the years once were out and May is history.
mike.
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JRM isn’t and won’t support TM, he’s sitting back at the moment watching things unfold, Gove is so untrustworthy and just in it for himself he will swap sides with a drop of a hat..he and Leadsom are trading loyalty for careers.. As C V mentioned earlier, TM has adapted this extreme stubbornness as a strategy like Corbyn did, It’s never really been seen before in politics but it worked for him and is working for her, I don’t think she likes the job anyway, plus she is in way over her head with Brexit, would it bother her that much if she was ousted ? What’s your take on the matter ?
counter_violent
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JRM working behind the scenes no doubt.
Gove....words fail me with that slimeball.
Leadsom is probably thinking along party lines...she may know that the proposal is dead in the water, perhaps at some future vote.
Cant for the life of me think how May ever hopes to move this forward. Unless she want's it to fail when the EU carries on demanding more.
Then she might be able to say....well screw you EU....no deal !
Trouble is......I don't think she's that clever
Atilla
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Country needs to have elections as personal careers are put above national interest.
2nd time round I feel debate will be more enlightened. Less lies and scare mongering.
Country is split in half and it simply doesn't bode well for the future.
Surprised some of you still think jrm and leadsom have potential.
We agree on Gove that's for sure. 100%.
timsk
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Well, I think it's time for us Brexiteers to hang out the white flags. For all intents and purposes, it looks to me as if it's pretty much game over. The policy of 'divide and conquer' has been extremely effective: hats off to the remain camp and to Mrs. May on that front. Unity will win the day and there's none of that that I can see in the Brexit camp.
So, we'll end up with Brexit in name only which isn't what I voted for or what I believe to be in the best interests of the country. Not only is it a shame (IMO) - but it also undermines democracy and our parliamentary political system. On the back of this, I predict that the turnout at the next general election will - by a very wide margin - be the lowest on record; such is the level of disaffection and mistrust of politics and politicians.
Fingers crossed that Mr. Southgate and his boys can provide a silver tinge to this otherwise dark and foreboding cloud.
Tim.
So, we'll end up with Brexit in name only which isn't what I voted for or what I believe to be in the best interests of the country. Not only is it a shame (IMO) - but it also undermines democracy and our parliamentary political system. On the back of this, I predict that the turnout at the next general election will - by a very wide margin - be the lowest on record; such is the level of disaffection and mistrust of politics and politicians.
Fingers crossed that Mr. Southgate and his boys can provide a silver tinge to this otherwise dark and foreboding cloud.
Tim.
Pat494
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I think you are raising the white flag a bit easily.
The vote has been decided and it is going to happen. The remoaners had better get used to the idea. It looks to me like it is going to be as hard an exit as the EU can make it. Just to scare their smaller members. Too pig headed to reform the EU to satisfy members. However IF they were to be reasonable then it would probably spell the end of Brexit.
But little chance of that - human nature being what it is ! They resent our leaving.
barjon
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Tim,
I think it’s a route that’s been forced upon them rather than some deep laid strategy. Paradoxically, the current plan pleases no-one - brexiteers because it seems “name only” and remainers because it’s accepting EU rules without having any say in them. Perhaps that’s what compromise means
I hope the remainers are proud of themselves for being anti democratic. They keep on painting a picture of us having information on what type of deal we can get and then voting on that as being democratic. But we didn't vote for a deal, we voted for a clean brexit. Anyone who values democracy should be looking at this in disgust no matter what side you are on. I will not be voting anymore going forward. I can't trust the establishment or people for that matter to hold true to the values of democracy and the interests of the majority.
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Signalcalc
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We are living through the slow introduction of the authoritarian state, have been since the 1970's, accelerated from the 1990's, all part of the EU plan. I'm sure there are examples of how these things started in history, although none will be as transparent as the British/European one is now, or as unique in circumstances.
All the elements are here, discord, mainstream political objectives becoming more extreme, shifting of the Overton window, loss of democracy, loss of freedom of speech/assembly, double standards, capitulation, use of state instruments to enforce the will of governments, arming of police, manipulation of media, use of state propaganda, control of social media.
Then there is the umbrella of the EU forcing it's will, the European problems are the same and more intense in some areas such as migration, the acceleration of the formation of an EU military/gendarmerie, it's not boding well for the future.
Where this will lead I'm not sure. The UK masses are 'carrying on' subdued by state propaganda, the rise of alternative media allows a window into what is going on, the day that the mainstream media stands-up to government (or should I say UKGov loses control over the MSM) will be the day UK public changes it's ideas.
European countries are already changing, their citizens have woken up sufficiently to vote out the EU agenda, peaceably, without violence, but then, the previous governments didn't try to stop it happening through authoritarian means, they allowed democracy to take it's course. Not so the UK......
All the elements are here, discord, mainstream political objectives becoming more extreme, shifting of the Overton window, loss of democracy, loss of freedom of speech/assembly, double standards, capitulation, use of state instruments to enforce the will of governments, arming of police, manipulation of media, use of state propaganda, control of social media.
Then there is the umbrella of the EU forcing it's will, the European problems are the same and more intense in some areas such as migration, the acceleration of the formation of an EU military/gendarmerie, it's not boding well for the future.
Where this will lead I'm not sure. The UK masses are 'carrying on' subdued by state propaganda, the rise of alternative media allows a window into what is going on, the day that the mainstream media stands-up to government (or should I say UKGov loses control over the MSM) will be the day UK public changes it's ideas.
European countries are already changing, their citizens have woken up sufficiently to vote out the EU agenda, peaceably, without violence, but then, the previous governments didn't try to stop it happening through authoritarian means, they allowed democracy to take it's course. Not so the UK......
Perhaps, instead of blaming EU for everything, it will teach us all, EU included, to be careful of close call referendums. The Brexiters shout that the people have decided. My opinion has, always, been that the result was too close. It has left a deeply divided nation. Even the Scots have not got, what I would call, a firm decision by the people to separate from the UK. Cataluña had one last year, with the same messy result.
