Brexit and the Consequences

[Atilla]

Desperation is setting in here, it must be something to do with Corbyns Brexit backpedaling! Divert away by trying to conflate an individual doctors gross negligence with a poorly run NHS run by a left wing govt with a growing elderly population and a tiny survey of well paid doctors with nice pensions that want to retire before 60 from 2015 and then mix in another small percentage of a minority percentage of EU leavers from the NHS and not forgetting poor working conditions of course. Then asking how Brexit will help the situation.

Wow my head is spinning trying to put those links together.

Nope can’t do it, so it just looks like scraping the barrel to me in an attempt to cover more lefty mistakes and a poor show by Corbyn.

Oh and conveniently forget to mention the pressures on public services caused by uncontrolled mass migration, for the many, not the few, how very droll.

Next?

Dare we forget your elephants in the country

 

[Atilla]

Nothing to do with Brexit and I couldn't give a toss if EU nationals want to move on. The fact is that EU nationals have had unrestricted access to the UK because of EU membership arrangements with the UK. Just stating the bleedin obvious I know, but when the UK leaves the EU and terminates the FOM then EU nationals will have to compete with the rest of the world for access to jobs in the UK. What is the problem with this?

As for the UK, this and future govt's will indeed need to train up more nationals to fill skills shortages. This is what Brexit voters voted for isn't it !

Two way street... You've seem to have forgotten 1.2m Brits working and a higher number living in EU.


https://ec.europa.eu/eures/eures-se...-0#/simpleSearch?keyword=General Practitioner

 

[counter_violent]

fwiw we are in the year 2018, February 27th Tuesday morning. :cheesy:

We know what you really mean about 2018.

As you see it, JRM is a throwback to a forgotten time and has no place in current times.

So i'll explain the situation as best I can. JRM, as a quality politician, has never been more relevant.

For 30 yrs the quality and competency of our politicians has been in decline. Not just a UK problem either, the same has happened all across the west. It's no coincidence that this has happened at a time where we have seen a power grab by the EU, combined with the rising trend towards globalism. So power has effectively been given away to the center thus reducing the need for our own politicians to perform. We have all witnessed this decline, just look at the current rabble! (all sides) This is a major problem now as evidenced by our current political predicament.

The Brexit vote sent a message that we were not happy with this centralised arrangement and that we wanted our own politicians to step up to the mark, be accountable and govern in the UK's interests for a change.
Centralisation of power heavily influenced by crony corporate business has been to the detriment of everyone.

So our own politicians have not needed to do very much and when asked to step up, they have been found wanting. Which brings me nicely on to the Lords.
1200 of them turn up every day and sit there having a nice chat, read a few meaningless memo's, ( I think they call it scrutiny). I've no idea what it is they are doing mind, as we don't actually legislate very much of our own. Into the bargain, these 1200 Lords claim £300 quid a day in expenses. (nice work if you can get it eh) Not to mention the cost of support staff, offices, buildings, pensions, canteen, bar.

 

[Atilla]

We know what you really mean about 2018.

As you see it, JRM is a throwback to a forgotten time and has no place in current times.

So i'll explain the situation as best I can. JRM, as a quality politician, has never been more relevant.

For 30 yrs the quality and competency of our politicians has been in decline. Not just a UK problem either, the same has happened all across the west. It's no coincidence that this has happened at a time where we have seen a power grab by the EU, combined with the rising trend towards globalism. So power has effectively been given away to the center thus reducing the need for our own politicians to perform. We have all witnessed this decline, just look at the current rabble! (all sides) This is a major problem now as evidenced by our current political predicament.

The Brexit vote sent a message that we were not happy with this centralised arrangement and that we wanted our own politicians to step up to the mark, be accountable and govern in the UK's interests for a change.
Centralisation of power heavily influenced by crony corporate business has been to the detriment of everyone.

So our own politicians have not needed to do very much and when asked to step up, they have been found wanting. Which brings me nicely on to the Lords.
1200 of them turn up every day and sit there having a nice chat, read a few meaningless memo's, ( I think they call it scrutiny). I've no idea what it is they are doing mind, as we don't actually legislate very much of our own. Into the bargain, these 1200 Lords claim £300 quid a day in expenses. (nice work if you can get it eh) Not to mention the cost of support staff, offices, buildings, pensions, canteen, bar.

I repeat - what has any of this have to do with Brexit?

How will Brexit change your gripes about the HoLs or our constitution which is all about our sovereignty and taking back control.

Have you consulted your sidekick SignalCalc as to what he has to say about our institutions and weather what he wrote in his super previous blog about what makes UK great is consistent with what you two are proposing?

All very confusing and you guys keep ranting about Brexit as if it's going to deliver on all your wet dreams but much confusion and contradiction inside your heads.


JRM couldn't give a hoot about you and your gripes either. I'm sure he already has his seat marked in the HoLs and will request it is re-leathered for his cheeks in due course.

 

[counter_violent]

I repeat - what has any of this have to do with Brexit?

How will Brexit change your gripes about the HoLs or our constitution which is all about our sovereignty and taking back control.

Have you consulted your sidekick SignalCalc as to what he has to say about our institutions and weather what he wrote in his super previous blog about what makes UK great is consistent with what you two are proposing?

All very confusing and you guys keep ranting about Brexit as if it's going to deliver on all your wet dreams but much confusion and contradiction inside your heads.


JRM couldn't give a hoot about you and your gripes either. I'm sure he already has his seat marked in the HoLs and will request it is re-leathered for his cheeks in due course.

Oh, it has everything to do with Brexit.

When we finally leave with no deal then the standard of representation will need to go up. It will have to go up because it couldn't possibly go down any lower. We currently have representation based on minority interest quotas because that's the PC thing to do.

You libby lefties are in for a rude awakening I can tell ya.

 

[Splitlink]

Best ask Jezza. NHS is run in Wales under the devolved Welsh administration and compares pretty poorly with the rest of UK – which in turn is certainly not "the envy of the world".

The NHS will always need more money but that's not the only or even main problem: it's the system that's wrong, and it needs to be reformed in the way things are done on the continent where outcome per £ is significantly better than we achieve.

NHS administration is terribly expensive, costing about 25% per district, I understand. UK should swallow its pride and ask France an Germany how they do it.

In Spain, we have the same problems with waiting time for ops, especially in the flu times, so I am not boasting--this seems to be a general problem. Personally, I'm fairly fit (fingers crossed) but have to have some medicine for blood pressure.
My prescription charge is the VAT, costing me less than a Euro. Something wrong in the UK, there. I understand that the charge is around 7 quid. Can that be right?

Another thing, about GPs. They are all in the same building. Appointments are on time- in my experience--and you can get blood tests, etc in the same building.

One gets referred to different clinics and hospitals for x-rays, etc. but I got sent in straight away, with no appointment, when I went. Agreed, there may be some people ahead, but not many.

Please don't blame the EU for any of this. Its the way that things get done. Beaurocracy? Ok, I can live with that.
.

 

[Signalcalc]

Dare we forget your elephants in the country

It's not so much about forgetting it, it's not even on the agenda of most politicians and the MSM. They seem unable/unwilling to discuss the subject and in actuality attempt to shutdown discussion about it. It's almost as if they have something to hide, or are very frightened, or have no clue about how to approach the subject in a meaningful, actionable way, or Soros is involved - I'll take all those reasons.

They only have themselves to blame after decades of allowing it to happen, but instead of tackling the problem, they would rather attempt to obscure and shift blame between themselves and onto the public in an attempt to score political points and to deceive, which leads to them spending your hard earned tax dollar on problems that don't exist and don't make much of a difference. They think their plan is working, where clearly it's not, all across Europe. Brexit is but one of the results of their bumbling plans, there will be many more downfalls for them in the future, its a long road ahead to somewhere, a global social experiment going wrong.

Where are all those £billions going I wonder :whistling

 

[Signalcalc]

I repeat - what has any of this have to do with Brexit?

How will Brexit change your gripes about the HoLs or our constitution which is all about our sovereignty and taking back control.

Have you consulted your sidekick SignalCalc as to what he has to say about our institutions and weather what he wrote in his super previous blog about what makes UK great is consistent with what you two are proposing?

All very confusing and you guys keep ranting about Brexit as if it's going to deliver on all your wet dreams but much confusion and contradiction inside your heads.


JRM couldn't give a hoot about you and your gripes either. I'm sure he already has his seat marked in the HoLs and will request it is re-leathered for his cheeks in due course.

No need to consult. I think I've made my POV quite clear, the country has no leadership in ANY party, I have no faith in any of them to produce a result that people voted for and whole range of other issues that need tackling. CV and I might be on the same side, but we also have our own viewpoints.

 

[Atilla]

No need to consult. I think I've made my POV quite clear, the country has no leadership in ANY party, I have no faith in any of them to produce a result that people voted for and whole range of other issues that need tackling. CV and I might be on the same side, but we also have our own viewpoints.

You are both very confused about what you want and what Brexit will get you.

Both Labour and Tory say businesses can continue hiring EU employees if they need them.

Tories then make a song and dance about free movement of labour.

Really their whole negotiations about what they want and what Brexit means and their vision of post-Brexit is a bunch of tom foolery and shenanigans.

Makes British government a laughing stock.

Then there are peeps like you giving it large contrary to what you write and blog about.

Do you not see that your rants and actions are contradictory. Really neither have thought this through much like Brexiteers.


It is much like a silver bullet to sort out all rants for once and for all. I would my dear compatriots strongly urge you to sort out what you really really want and then go about how to obtain it.


Getting rid of Tory and Labour parties will only give you LibDems and I'll go with that. Anything else you dream about like UKIP forming a government to get rid of elephants from the Isles is fantasy. Do we have elephants in the UK? :cheesy:

 

[Atilla]

It's not so much about forgetting it, it's not even on the agenda of most politicians and the MSM. They seem unable/unwilling to discuss the subject and in actuality attempt to shutdown discussion about it. It's almost as if they have something to hide, or are very frightened, or have no clue about how to approach the subject in a meaningful, actionable way, or Soros is involved - I'll take all those reasons.

They only have themselves to blame after decades of allowing it to happen, but instead of tackling the problem, they would rather attempt to obscure and shift blame between themselves and onto the public in an attempt to score political points and to deceive, which leads to them spending your hard earned tax dollar on problems that don't exist and don't make much of a difference. They think their plan is working, where clearly it's not, all across Europe. Brexit is but one of the results of their bumbling plans, there will be many more downfalls for them in the future, its a long road ahead to somewhere, a global social experiment going wrong.

Where are all those £billions going I wonder :whistling

The subject is discussed but sadly doesn't get the attention it needs.

As for your leader he reckons integration and business deals with the Common Wealth should be UK's the top priority. India agrees with your man. In exchange for trade deal India wants free movement of labour between UK and India. It's been in the headlines do keep up. You sure you know what you and your leaders are talking about?

There are elephants in India

 

[Atilla]

Oh, it has everything to do with Brexit.

When we finally leave with no deal then the standard of representation will need to go up. It will have to go up because it couldn't possibly go down any lower. We currently have representation based on minority interest quotas because that's the PC thing to do.

You libby lefties are in for a rude awakening I can tell ya.

Once again CV you seem to be talking about domestic UK politics and as per silver bullet believe Brexit will raise standard and quality of politicians representing the so called 52% in Parliament.

This is democracy at work. It is fluid.

It is even debatable / questionable if we have a vote on the deal from Brexit fiasco you'll even get that same number.

So once again you are mixing up domestic politics with Brexit. UKIP was the party of Brexit and where are they now.

Tories simply shot them selves in the foot and Labour leader in Corbyn is an accidental opportunist. Both disasters. However, I'd choose Corbyn over Tories any day.

Once again you are truly a confused puppy.

 

[Atilla]

Ok let me just spell it out for you...

EU is a trading block as a single market with tiers of membership.

You can pick and choose what type is suitable for you. There are enough already.

UK as an independent sovereign country via Parliament can vote to stay in the common market with what ever membership it chooses or step out.


That's it.



If you feel and think UK can make more favourable trade deals outside of the EU by leaving then Brexit is for you.

If you think the trouble and effort may not be worth and wish list can not be delivered then you should think twice very hard.


All your political verb about your vision for the UK and common wealth and everything else about the parties is all for domestic parliamentary consumption. Go and speak to your MP.

 

[Splitlink]

My point has always been that the 52%-48% referendum result has left the UK a hugely divided country. This is obvious to me, at least. Ambitious Brexiters have dragged UK out of EU with a large part screaming its head off. That will have to be paid for with many years of hardship. Parliament is so taken up with Brexit that it cannot find the time to run the country properly.

Cataluña is, almost, exactly the same. May other countries that go down the referendum road take heed and stipulate a higher porcetage figure. Over 50%, simply, does not cut it.

 

[sminicooper]

Interesting article here https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/sorry-remainers-theres-no-way-back/

It basically makes the argument that leaving, in one form or another, is a done deal and realistically it is now irreversible. For Remainers the subsequent logical step would be to reapply for membership and author poses this scenario in relation to a membership bid:

"Let the Remainers make their case for joining a cumbersome and increasingly fracturing pursuit of a superstate. The euro, the EU army, common taxation, more and more laws, substantially higher annual payments to Brussels: try selling that on the high streets of Wigan, Swansea, Peterhead or Antrim."

Worth a read IMHO.

 

[Signalcalc]

You are both very confused about what you want and what Brexit will get you.

Both Labour and Tory say businesses can continue hiring EU employees if they need them.

Tories then make a song and dance about free movement of labour.

Really their whole negotiations about what they want and what Brexit means and their vision of post-Brexit is a bunch of tom foolery and shenanigans.

Makes British government a laughing stock.

Then there are peeps like you giving it large contrary to what you write and blog about.

Do you not see that your rants and actions are contradictory. Really neither have thought this through much like Brexiteers.


It is much like a silver bullet to sort out all rants for once and for all. I would my dear compatriots strongly urge you to sort out what you really really want and then go about how to obtain it.


Getting rid of Tory and Labour parties will only give you LibDems and I'll go with that. Anything else you dream about like UKIP forming a government to get rid of elephants from the Isles is fantasy. Do we have elephants in the UK? :cheesy:

It appears we are on the same side too (apart from the LibDem bit) :cheesy:

 

[Signalcalc]

The subject is discussed but sadly doesn't get the attention it needs.

As for your leader he reckons integration and business deals with the Common Wealth should be UK's the top priority. India agrees with your man. In exchange for trade deal India wants free movement of labour between UK and India. It's been in the headlines do keep up. You sure you know what you and your leaders are talking about?

There are elephants in India

Not really the point I was trying to make. The subject is discussed in terms of trade, as you say, without much attention. But it is not discussed in terms of culture, society, religion and the rule of law and those effects on the UK and Europe.

 

[mike.]

Are you Labour Mike? I feel like you might be more Tory. Regardless, I still can't see a major differences in stances.

I really like this spirited debate between Labour & Conservatives. I found that one meme of Nigel by A especially funny.

Your Conservatives aren't conservative. Basically, your politics have always been the choice between limousine liberal Hillary Clinton and socialist liberal Bernie Sanders. Guess which party is analogous to which! Lol.

Funny enough these were both Labour mp’s Hhiusa. The Labour Party is nothing but a laughing stock these days, It’s only purpose is to oppose everything the government says and does without valid reason, they have just come out with their brexit policy this week after being pressured for sitting on the fence for the last two years, again something thought up in Disney land alongside scrapping university fees... The conservatives are not perfect by any means, but are 110% more switched on than the any other party.

 

[Splitlink]

Interesting article here https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/sorry-remainers-theres-no-way-back/

It basically makes the argument that leaving, in one form or another, is a done deal and realistically it is now irreversible. For Remainers the subsequent logical step would be to reapply for membership and author poses this scenario in relation to a membership bid:

"Let the Remainers make their case for joining a cumbersome and increasingly fracturing pursuit of a superstate. The euro, the EU army, common taxation, more and more laws, substantially higher annual payments to Brussels: try selling that on the high streets of Wigan, Swansea, Peterhead or Antrim."

Worth a read IMHO.

The damage has been done. Going back is irrealistic and would cause more trouble than you have, already.

 

[Splitlink]

Funny enough these were both Labour mp’s Hhiusa. The Labour Party is nothing but a laughing stock these days,.

I wonder how that laughing stock will do at the next election? The Conservatives are getting the blame for this.

 

[Signalcalc]

My point has always been that the 52%-48% referendum result has left the UK a hugely divided country. This is obvious to me, at least. Ambitious Brexiters have dragged UK out of EU with a large part screaming its head off. That will have to be paid for with many years of hardship. Parliament is so taken up with Brexit that it cannot find the time to run the country properly.

I don't think that Brexit is the cause of division in the UK, I believe the divisions were already there to begin with.

The Brexit referendum caused a shock amongst the establishment, they completely missed the mood, it galvanised the UK left to momentumsize themselves into action, the left have sought to increase the division, spurred on by the election of Trump and the rise in Antifa (an oxymoron). Threats, intimidation, control of the media, curtailing free speech and violence are now part of the lefts' agenda, when they had been relatively benign for 20-30 years. In relative terms, there is very little equivalence from the organised right other than a few protest marches.

Just before the referendum was the opening of the floodgates to mass migration into Europe by the EU, that just poured more fuel on the fire. So the Brexit vote only highlighted divisions that were gently simmering in the UK, probably simmering since the early 90's when Political Correctness was introduced and before that during the Thatcher years. I would bet that PC provided the spark for a 50/50 split amongst the views of the UK public, PC also coincided with the political integration of the EU under the Maastricht treaty, that would have caused more disquiet amongst the UK populous.

The rise in division has spread to Europe and the US, although I suspect that the same divisions have been simmering amongst those populations because of Globalism spreading PC and corruption amongst major corporations, banks and government institutions, it's all linked. Other Western countries such as Oz, Canada, NZ have followed the same path.

Then throw in the rise of the internet and social media and you have pretty much a perfect storm that came into being with the Brexit vote.

Very historically significant in this new Epoch of human existence