Brexit and the Consequences

[CavaliereVerde]

the EU vaccination debacle

The EU program was slower than UK but now from a safe distance I would not say UK has done better than EU .
It is precisely my point, EU produces slower but better decisions.

 

[tomorton]

In the meantime every UK citizen is experiencing higher prices, shortages and hassle to move in EU countries.
Of course maybe UK is right and other 26 coutries are wrong, possible but not so likely.

Just a thought.

Remainers do keep referring to the problems of travel into the EU from the UK. What we can be pretty certain is that 99% of them only ever enter the EU on a holiday and only ever have entered the EU on a holiday.

Doesn't it appear to sound a bit peevish that some people would wish the entire constitution, governance, democratic institutions and national future of the UK should be changed simply so they can avoid a bit of inconvenient bureaucracy once a year?

 

[Atilla]

Your comments regarding labour shortages implies you are in favor of a model that keeps wages of the poorest down to allow for those better off to get more wealthy. What the UK is now seeing is that all those jobs that were paying a pittance to cheap labour mostly from the EU can no longer compete for staff. So they are now having to up the wages to attract staff so here we have a major benefit of Brexit in that the wages of the lowest paid are starting to go up and quite a lot. The idea that any business just cannot get staff is flawed because if you offer enough money people will always take the work.

The idea that there is an overwhelming case for or against Brexit is not born out either way. It will be a long time before any real conclusions can be drawn from what happened and in the mean time both sides will keep arguing as to why they are right and the other side is wrong.

I'm afraid your argument is seriously flawed and is effectively protectionism.

Free movement of labour and capital makes markets more efficient. This is beyond doubt. It is the backbone of free markets and competitive advantage in leading nations.

So CV says EU is about protectionism which is bad but you say protecting British jobs from EU citizens is a benefit to the UK? You two need to get a room to sort out your joint Brexit advantage or disadvantage ideas.

I have read we have over 1m jobs vacant but no takers. Even at min and above usual rates. I would point out that the UK has serious structural employment issues. This has always been the case. Back in the 70s there used to be Regional Grants and Subsidies. Stuff that Thatcher scrapped in her free market economics and effed up UK even more. As well as house price issues and a shortage of houses in the right places. Then there is training and aptitude and temperament of young people who are prepared to graft it out.

Same goes for training of nurses. Tories have removed bursaries whilst expecting more nurses to work for peanuts and pay for their training. Tories are so freaking sh!t at managing the economy well.

I did point out wage price inflation spirals that took place in the late 70s and 80s but you may have missed it gloating on the Brexit lies.

What I find irksome is that so many people bark on about how good it all was once upon a time post-WWII when the whole world was rebuilding. But come the post-60s it was clear UK losing the competitive edge. What halted that trend was the EU membership and free movement of labour and capital and the bigger market place, sharing of knowledge experteese working in a secure market place with harmonised standards.

Your post also says much about the British mentality. So you are suggesting fruit pickers, seasonal jobs and hotel maids and cleaners should all get paid more. Including couriers and retail sales staff. That's fine by me. Pay them as much as is required but be prepared for inflation and a round of strikes from railways, teachers, nurses, police and industry as that round of wage-price inflation spirals and we go back to the good old 70s people play catchup.


Honestly and sincerely, I'm sad to say, UK has already started regression back to the 70s.

 

[Atilla]

Just a thought.

Remainers do keep referring to the problems of travel into the EU from the UK. What we can be pretty certain is that 99% of them only ever enter the EU on a holiday and only ever have entered the EU on a holiday.

Doesn't it appear to sound a bit peevish that some people would wish the entire constitution, governance, democratic institutions and national future of the UK should be changed simply so they can avoid a bit of inconvenient bureaucracy once a year?

Hmmm, and what about the transportation of goods and services?

Fish and music come to mind.

 

[tomorton]

Hmmm, and what about the transportation of goods and services?

Fish and music come to mind.

I guess we agree. The trouble people are put to over their holiday paperwork to get into the EU for a holiday is not a really important issue. I hope they stop mentioning it.

Trade is of course very important but its a two-way street. When one country has something the other wants to buy, they will usually find a way of doing a deal. They don't need to form a new combined super-state to do it. The more significant the trade, the sooner the deal gets done.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

The top comment is spot on!
"Brexit was the first time a nation imposed economic sanctions on itself."

 

[CavaliereVerde]

BREGRET is

 

[timsk]

I don't regret Brexit.
The only matter of regret is that it's largely in name only. If the remoaners had accepted the result of the 2016 referendum and got behind it, there'd be nothing to moan about.

 

[alan5616]

I don't regret Brexit.
The only matter of regret is that it's largely in name only. If the remoaners had accepted the result of the 2016 referendum and got behind it, there'd be nothing to moan about.

I think that £100 billion a year in lost trade, £40 billion in lost taxes (and duties) plus a hit of 4% to our GDP is plenty to moan about. Brexit has been a disaster and will carry on being so.

 

[tomorton]

I think that £100 billion a year in lost trade, £40 billion in lost taxes (and duties) plus a hit of 4% to our GDP is plenty to moan about. Brexit has been a disaster and will carry on being so.

In the life span of our nation, Brexit was just an event. A birth if you like, maybe a re-birth, or a graduation, or a divorce, or moving house, or a nervous break-down, however you like to look at it.

But after only a few years of independent living, its inappropriate to try to call it a success or a failure. The success or failure of a birth or a divorce or any of these events is measured by how you live your life after it. That's not a quick judgement to reach. Except to say we are sure dragging our feet.

 

[Jason101]

I don't regret Brexit.
The only matter of regret is that it's largely in name only. If the remoaners had accepted the result of the 2016 referendum and got behind it, there'd be nothing to moan about.

So the failure so far of leaving the largest trading block on our doorstep (and within our own continent) is all due to the people who voted against leaving. 🤣🤣🤣

 

[timsk]

So the failure so far of leaving the largest trading block on our doorstep (and within our own continent) is all due to the people who voted against leaving. 🤣🤣🤣

I think that's a fair assessment Jas', yes!

 

[timsk]

I think that £100 billion a year in lost trade, £40 billion in lost taxes (and duties) plus a hit of 4% to our GDP is plenty to moan about. . .

Is that all it's cost us, Alan?
Cheap at double the price if you ask me!

 

[tomorton]

So the failure so far of leaving the largest trading block on our doorstep (and within our own continent) is all due to the people who voted against leaving. 🤣🤣🤣

Leaving the EU was never going to trigger immediate expansion of our trade with other countries. Quite the opposite: any realist would be happy to admit that erecting barriers between us and our largest trading partners would reduce the benefits of trade. That's as temporary as it is unavoidable.

 

[alan5616]

Is that all it's cost us, Alan?
Cheap at double the price if you ask me!

Where are, and what have been, the benefits of leaving?

 

[timsk]

Where are, and what have been, the benefits of leaving?

They're subjective, Alan.
So, what I perceive (rightly or wrongly) as a benefit, you may perceive as a detriment. And visa versa. There are few - if any - absolutes.

I accept fully that there are benefits of remaining in the EU and serious losses that result from us leaving. Indeed, had I voted purely on the basis of what would have benefited me financially, I'd have voted remain. However, the bigger benefit (in my eyes) - and the reason I voted to leave - was to uncouple the U.K. from what I perceive (wrongly in your eyes, I'm sure!) to be a corrupt, globalist organisation that does not have my best interests - and those of anyone in the U.K. - at heart. For this reason alone, if a second vote was held tomorrow, I'd vote exactly the same way again without a moment's hesitation.

Sorry! ;-)
Tim.

 

[Jason101]

I accept fully that there are benefits of remaining in the EU and serious losses that result from us leaving. Indeed, had I voted purely on the basis of what would have benefited me financially, I'd have voted remain.

Sorry! ;-)
Tim.

It is one thing to accept that you will personally be less well off by voting to leave the EU trading block and be fine with that, you sound almost proud of that fact, as though you are altruistic.

But it seems very amiss for you not to mention your voting decisions impact on everyone else who will be worse off too.

As well as other peoples personal situation (which may be more precarious than yours) there is also less money in the economy to pay for mental health, policing, hospitals, social care, schools and all public services. One simple example would be the rise in deaths due to the rise in ambulance waiting times.

 

[alan5616]

They're subjective, Alan.
So, what I perceive (rightly or wrongly) as a benefit, you may perceive as a detriment. And visa versa. There are few - if any - absolutes.

I accept fully that there are benefits of remaining in the EU and serious losses that result from us leaving. Indeed, had I voted purely on the basis of what would have benefited me financially, I'd have voted remain. However, the bigger benefit (in my eyes) - and the reason I voted to leave - was to uncouple the U.K. from what I perceive (wrongly in your eyes, I'm sure!) to be a corrupt, globalist organisation that does not have my best interests - and those of anyone in the U.K. - at heart. For this reason alone, if a second vote was held tomorrow, I'd vote exactly the same way again without a moment's hesitation.

Sorry! ;-)
Tim.

My take on this is uncomplicated. Has the UK benefited from leaving the EU? As far as I'm concerned, it's a resounding "No". Too many small UK companies are now finding it almost impossible to export to the EU.

 

[tomorton]

In economic terms, the UK can be said to have left the EU at the stroke of midnight. Its now five past. Its legitimate to declare Brexit an incorrect decision, but its too early to say it was a bad one.

In any case, the grounds for leaving the EU were not purely economic. In which case, Brexit has been a 100% correct decision.

What has been so far underwhelming has been UK government policies which the UK government is now free to set. But these are very legitimate criticisms of the last three Conservative Prime Ministers, not applicable to the Brexit decision.

 

[timsk]

It is one thing to accept that you will personally be less well off by voting to leave the EU trading block and be fine with that, you sound almost proud of that fact, as though you are altruistic.

No, there's nothing altruistic about me, Jason!

But it seems very amiss for you not to mention your voting decisions impact on everyone else who will be worse off too.

I've acknowledged that there are consequences of leaving the EU and, while some people may be worse off, I believe the right thing to do is to act in the interests of the majority - be they rich or poor - in the medium to long term. That's what I've done. In the words of Michael Caine: "I'd rather be a poor master than a rich servant."

As well as other peoples personal situation (which may be more precarious than yours) there is also less money in the economy to pay for mental health, policing, hospitals, social care, schools and all public services. One simple example would be the rise in deaths due to the rise in ambulance waiting times.

There's plenty of money for the government to spend on the things it wants to spend it on. For example, there's any amount of it to spend on useless PPE and lockdowns that don't work and on so called 'vaccines' that aren't safe and aren't effective. Latterly, there's any amount of it to spend on killing people in Ukraine and reducing that country to rubble. Our own politicians have demonstrated through their actions that they don't care two hoots about the people of this country: adding another layer of corrupt globalists on top of them who care even less about us strikes me as being the height of folly!

Anyway, I get that you and Alan think we should have remained and that we would be much better off financially - both individually and as a nation had we done so. Perhaps you're right, although I'm sure someone like Jacob Rees-Mogg could match you stat' for stat' to suggest otherwise. Personally, I don't much care either way, because what's done is done and the best thing for as all to do now is to pull together, put the past behind us, look to the future and make the most of the situation we are in. Had we all done that from 25th June 2016, I'm very confident we'd all be far better off on numerous levels than we are right now!
Tim.