Brexit and the Consequences

Atilla

Legendary member
18,777 2,617
PLEASE tell me you're joking At' - the woman is a complete nightmare!
Nope I'm serious. I think she's great. Great leader. Fearless. Level headed. Speaks good common sense.. Heart in right place.

Has metal in her that lady. (y) All the other weazels come out when going is good. Self indulgent power grabbers. Hogging limelight. When the chips are down you don't hear from them.

As I say good leaders are hard to come by. Look at Boris, Govey, Leadsom, Moggy, Farage. All show and mouth when much hoo haarr about Brexit and where are they now? Kniving and plotting career politicians.


Pick your leaders carefully otherwise you get :poop: brains all dressed up talking tosh.
 

timsk

Legendary member
6,938 1,812
. . . Pick your leaders carefully otherwise you get :poop: brains all dressed up talking tosh.
Agreed At' but, IMO, that's the very reason why Anna Soubry is unlikely to lead anything other than the Hypocrisy Society. She campaigns to thwart Brexit and to remain in the EU in spite of the fact that she voted in favour of having the 2016 referendum, in spite of the fact that her constituency voted to leave, in spite of campaigning at the last general election on a manifesto that promised to honour the referendum result and in spite of the fact that she voted to trigger Article 50. To be fair to her, she only backed having the referendum because she thought remain would win. She said: “[I backed it] only because I thought we would win. Obviously I wouldn’t have been if I thought we would lose, let’s be honest.” She went on to say: "We voted for the Referendum Act without understanding the consequences of a leave vote. [That's because you're incompetent Anna!] We told people it was binding, but now we don’t know, and it’s quite concerning that none of these things were explored before parliament decided . . . It’s all of our faults. All of us. Every single one of us. And I feel very guilty about that.” [Indeed, you should feel guilty about your actions Anna. But it's not everyone's fault is it - it's your fault and that of other hypocritical MPs who, like you, say one thing - or vote for something - and then do the opposite.] Link to quotes: Anna Soubry: I only backed EU referendum vote because Remain was supposed to win

Now she wants a second referendum but, not only that, she only wants two options on the ballot paper: Mrs. May's lousy deal and remain. So, in spite of voting for Article 50 which - as you know - has leaving with no-deal as the default position, she's doing all she can to take no-deal off the table. All the while she bleats on about verbal abuse whilst being perfectly happy to indulge in some name calling of her own and to hurl insults at others. Pot, kettle, black Anna! Dear, dear me At', the woman's a nightmare and if she's really your idea of a great leader that speaks good common sense - then heaven help us!
Tim.
 
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Atilla

Legendary member
18,777 2,617
Agreed At' but, IMO, that's the very reason why Anna Soubry is unlikely to lead anything other than the Hypocrisy Society. She campaigns to thwart Brexit and to remain in the EU in spite of the fact that she voted in favour of having the 2016 referendum, in spite of the fact that her constituency voted to leave, in spite of campaigning at the last general election on a manifesto that promised to honour the referendum result and in spite of the fact that she voted to trigger Article 50. To be fair to her, she only backed having the referendum because she thought remain would win. She said: “[I backed it] only because I thought we would win. Obviously I wouldn’t have been if I thought we would lose, let’s be honest.” She went on to say: "We voted for the Referendum Act without understanding the consequences of a leave vote. [That's because you're incompetent Anna!] We told people it was binding, but now we don’t know, and it’s quite concerning that none of these things were explored before parliament decided . . . It’s all of our faults. All of us. Every single one of us. And I feel very guilty about that.” [Indeed, you should feel guilty about your actions Anna. But it's not everyone's fault is it - it's your fault and that of other hypocritical MPs who, like you, say one thing - or vote for something - and then do the opposite.] Link to quotes: Anna Soubry: I only backed EU referendum vote because Remain was supposed to win

Now she wants a second referendum but, not only that, she only wants two options on the ballot paper: Mrs. May's lousy deal and remain. So, in spite of voting for Article 50 which - as you know - has leaving with no-deal as the default position, she's doing all she can to take no-deal off the table. All the while she bleats on about verbal abuse whilst being perfectly happy to indulge in some name calling of her own and to hurl insults at others. Pot, kettle, black Anna! Dear, dear me At', the woman's a nightmare and if she's really your idea of a great leader that speaks good common sense - then heaven help us!
Tim.
Hi Tim,

I think your blog is a fair one and accurately explains along with Anna Soubry's many of the MPs and Tories position in particular.

The build up for the Referendum is really a compilation of inept decisions based on catalogue of errors, misjudgement and alignment of stars that favoured Brexit.

In any course of decision making process, say buying a car or a house, nobody would proceed on the basis I decided to buy that car and come hell or high water I'm doing it because it is democratically the right thing to do for all the wrong reasons.

Crux of it all is that Anna Soubry calls it for what it is. She recognises the errors. Accepts them. That is not hyporcrisy imo.

Most people know this now but to spite ones face, one is prepared to cut one's nose off. Even Cameron never thought the referendum would take place as he believed LibDems would oppose it. He didn't think he would win a majority. TM didn't think she'd lose it. Nigel Farage never thought Brexit would win.

Someone needs to introduce some reality to all the shenanigans. We all make mistakes.


You seem to hold her to account but don't say much about all the double dealing and non-deliverable promises made by Brexiteers. You are happy to believe their visions can be delivered and give them benefit of the doubt contrary to so many turn coats and citizens stating otherwise. NHS can't cope because of aging population and yet and crumbling NHS is blamed on NHS tourism. You talk of hypocrisy but I feel the whole debate has highlighted just how bad our leaders are and these very people are handed the task of doing what exactly to improve UK?

On the contrary, some peeps on this thread revel at the prospect of giving control to the pigs in the animal farm to run the place whilst at the same time accepting their ineptitude and demanding they step up to the plate improving their performance.

Absolutely ludicrous. Brexit is destroying the country when there are so many other issues facing us. Brexit is supposed to be taking us to the promised land. Really? It's like the sacrifice of the golden egg laying goose.

If EU collapses so what? UK is out of the Euro. Rules and regs a pile of dung. Along with EU court of justice, all going to be cut and pasted into UK books. No one has thought anything through.

When I hear smart aleks stand up and quote it was a democratic vote I feel like throwing up. Pllleeaaaaaaaaassse get your heads out your stinky armpits and get a whiff of fresh air. No way to hold a referendum or run a country.


Name me one politicians who comes clean in all of this? Vince Cable and LibDems only true party imo. Holding to their honest manifesto and holding the line and prescribing a correct course of action for the UK.


As for me I never thought the referendum was a good idea. Split and I both stated the 50/50 was a naff idea and not conducive to constitutional decisions and I can never accept 37% of the population determining something so critical and important with the mega ramifications on a great big country such as the UK. Moreover, pensioners getting a big vote with none of the consequences whilst expats living in Europe being denied a vote was most unfair. Expats living in Europe have just as much stake on the decision as pensioners living in UK. It transpires they will lose reciprocal NHS and Pension cover.

Referendum was badly drawn up, badly presented and so wrong on soooo many fronts.

It is just all going so horribly wrong and we need to get off on this high and mighty we are so principled democracy red bus hurtling to the white cliffs of dover. Just a very :poop::poop::poop: path going only to one place(n).
 

timsk

Legendary member
6,938 1,812
. . .You seem to hold her to account but don't say much about all the double dealing and non-deliverable promises made by Brexiteers. . .
Hi At',
I agree with much of your assessment regarding the referendum and what you say about politicians. There's a lot of things I could comment on, but I'll focus my reply on the point you make in the sentence quoted.

I don't accept that Brexit is non-deliverable for the simple reason that David Davis, Steve Baker, Suella Braverman and their team at The Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) drew up a plan which very much delivered on what people voted for in the referendum and, crucially, pretty well mirrored the deal offered to us by Donald Tusk on behalf of the EU. We could have had the whole thing done and dusted as early as last summer and all of the uncertainty we have now could have been avoided. That Mrs. May, Olly Robbins and the No. 10 cabal were all the time working on a completely separate plan (Chequers) and never had any intention of accepting the deal put forward by their own government department is the primary reason why we're in the mess that we're currently in. Their duplicity is outrageous and for the life of me I don't understand why it isn't a national scandal and headline news across the media.

Just to return to Anna Soubry and your comment about holding her to account; yes I do, but she's an absolute angel in my eyes compared to Mrs. May. I have necessarily low expectations of all politicians and only require them (any of them - regardless of their party or beliefs) to do two things consistently . . .
1. To be humble and to accept fully that their primary role is to serve us - the people who elected them to high office.
2. To live up to their 'honourable' title and to act with integrity.
That's not a big ask IMO, yet very few of them achieve it. Sadly, for the reasons given, neither Ms. Soubry nor Mrs. May have an ounce of either quality. That means they have no place in politics and are completely unsuitable as leaders of anything.
Tim.
 
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Signalcalc

Senior member
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Their duplicity is outrageous and for the life of me I don't understand why it isn't a national scandal and headline news across the media.
Are you sure you don't understand why MSM wouldn't make this into a national scandal? After all we have discovered about the MSM in recent years, it surprises me that people appear still not to understand. This is not a comment about your ability to rationalise or understand, more to probe why you would expect the mainstream press to be working against the pro-remain political leadership rather than for them.
 
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barjon

Legendary member
10,236 1,539
........Their duplicity is outrageous and for the life of me I don't understand why it isn't a national scandal and headline news across the media.......
Maybe because it is not as clear cut as you describe it? Otherwise I, like you, couldn’t believe that the harder brexiteers and the Brexit supporting media wouldn’t have been screaming blue murder from the roof tops.
 

timsk

Legendary member
6,938 1,812
Are you sure you don't understand why MSM wouldn't make this into a national scandal? After all we have discovered about the MSM in recent years, it surprises me that people appear still not to understand. This is not a comment about your ability to rationalise or understand, more to probe why you would expect the mainstream press to be working against the pro-remain political leadership rather than for them.
Fair play Sig', you've got me there - well and truly snookered I am!
I admit, I was being a tad disingenuous in my comment and would love to hear from any political editors in MSM what their excuses are - sorry, I mean reasons are - for not running this story.
Tim.
 
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timsk

Legendary member
6,938 1,812
Maybe because it is not as clear cut as you describe it? Otherwise I, like you, couldn’t believe that the harder brexiteers and the Brexit supporting media wouldn’t have been screaming blue murder from the roof tops.
Hi Jon,
Given that you're a remainer, I'd be interested to hear how you (and Atilla et al) interpret the testimonies provided by Steve Baker and Suella Braverman to the European Scrutiny Committee. To my mind, either they are lying through their teeth or the situation is every bit as clear cut as I described it in my post. To save you searching for the YouTube links, I'll attach them here. The first one is the main one - but the other two are well worth watching if you've not done so already.
Tim.



 
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barjon

Legendary member
10,236 1,539
Hi Jon,
Given that you're a remainer, I'd be interested to hear how you (and Atilla et al) interpret the testimonies provided by Steve Baker and Suella Braverman to the European Scrutiny Committee. To my mind, either they are lying through their teeth or the situation is every bit as clear cut as I described it in my post. To save you searching for the YouTube links, I'll attach them here. The first one is the main one - but the other two are well worth watching if you've not done so already.
Tim.



Tim

Yes I seen the first before and will look at the others - just off to soak up a bit of sun (our last day today) so will come back later.