Brexit and the Consequences

[Atilla]

Funny

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/7...ote-Leave-numpty-wrong-angry-Nigel-Farage-LBC

 

[barjon]

The numpty majority has won - yay :clap:

Aye, and a splendid Pyrrhic victory it’s turning out to be. Not the voters’ fault - led up the garden path by the politicians as usual

 

[Splitlink]

More importantly, this is what I was afraid of. A botched up deal where we really do lose control over decision making process in the EU but continue to adhere to rules and regulations to remain in the common market.

That model may be fine for small countries like Norway or Sweden or Canada but not 'the' UK.


Jo Johnson: it would be travesty not to have second Brexit vote

Wasn't aware of Jo Johnson. Sounds like a reasonable bloke unlike his OT elder brother.

I was not aware of him, either. He paints a grim picture. I did not approve of a second referendum but have changed my mind. It is the only resort that the public has to change UK's course.

 

[Atilla]

I've been fishing around and 2nd referendum's are not that uncommon.

Whilst people like Moggy and other Brexiteers may make a song and dance about democracy there is nothing undemocratic about changing ones mind once clarity reigns over facts. Referendum's often enshrouded by politics too which as we all know has money and power swirling around vested interests.

Here is a point in example about Quebec's two referendums.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Quebec-referendum-of-1995

Here is an essay on why people may change their minds and talks about referendum's from EU members. Asking the public twice: why do voters change their minds in second referendums on EU treaties?

It is interesting to note in each of the first round referendum's sovereignty or the perceived loss of sovereignty is sufficient to embed doubt into peoples mind voting No. Apparently, Ireland was worried EU would enforce change in abortion laws which they apparently wanted to keep back then. Now that the Catholic church is under fire for all the abuse and victimisation they have inflicted on poor abused destitute victims, Ireland it self have overwhelmingly voted to change her own laws on abortion.

Anyhow, interesting read and I do feel strategies for a second referendum or elections probably in draft form, worked on now as we ponder. :whistling

 

[Signalcalc]

I've been fishing around and 2nd referendum's are not that uncommon.

Whilst people like Moggy and other Brexiteers may make a song and dance about democracy there is nothing undemocratic about changing ones mind once clarity reigns over facts. Referendum's often enshrouded by politics too which as we all know has money and power swirling around vested interests.

Here is a point in example about Quebec's two referendums.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Quebec-referendum-of-1995

Here is an essay on why people may change their minds and talks about referendum's from EU members. Asking the public twice: why do voters change their minds in second referendums on EU treaties?

It is interesting to note in each of the first round referendum's sovereignty or the perceived loss of sovereignty is sufficient to embed doubt into peoples mind voting No. Apparently, Ireland was worried EU would enforce change in abortion laws which they apparently wanted to keep back then. Now that the Catholic church is under fire for all the abuse and victimisation they have inflicted on poor abused destitute victims, Ireland it self have overwhelmingly voted to change her own laws on abortion.

Anyhow, interesting read and I do feel strategies for a second referendum or elections probably in draft form, worked on now as we ponder. :whistling

You can live in hope........until March 29th

 

[barjon]

Well, here we are then. The EU has just put the skids under May’s deal by rejecting her key proposal about the “temporary” nature of any customs union.

Johnson (the other one ) who is a staunch remainer has resigned because the deal leaves us powerless to influence the rules we will be bound by. “A failure of British statecraft on a scale unseen since the Suez crisis” he reckons. It’s reported that other remain leaning ministers are similarly on the brink of going.

Brexit politicians hate the deal because it takes us out but leaves us in so far as most of the EU rules and legal precedence is concerned.

Most people (cv excluded ) believe a no deal outcome would be severely detrimental to us.

One might rail against the obdurate EU but it shows just where the power lies - and it’s not with us. I doubt they will ever compromise their principles by anything more than a slight fraying around the edges.

Parliament is in total disarray and feelings run so strong that one wonders how agreement to the final May “deal” (if there is one) can be achieved. Quite how the Government will cut the Gordian knot will be interesting, particularly since they have said unequivocally that there will be no further referendum.

What an unholy mess.

 

[sminicooper]

Well, here we are then. The EU has just put the skids under May’s deal by rejecting her key proposal about the “temporary” nature of any customs union.

Johnson (the other one ) who is a staunch remainer has resigned because the deal leaves us powerless to influence the rules we will be bound by. “A failure of British statecraft on a scale unseen since the Suez crisis” he reckons. It’s reported that other remain leaning ministers are similarly on the brink of going.

Brexit politicians hate the deal because it takes us out but leaves us in so far as most of the EU rules and legal precedence is concerned.

Most people (cv excluded ) believe a no deal outcome would be severely detrimental to us.

One might rail against the obdurate EU but it shows just where the power lies - and it’s not with us. I doubt they will ever compromise their principles by anything more than a slight fraying around the edges.

Parliament is in total disarray and feelings run so strong that one wonders how agreement to the final May “deal” (if there is one) can be achieved. Quite how the Government will cut the Gordian knot will be interesting, particularly since they have said unequivocally that there will be no further referendum.

What an unholy mess.

Removal of Theresa or a general election ........ or both.

 

[counter_violent]

Well, here we are then. The EU has just put the skids under May’s deal by rejecting her key proposal about the “temporary” nature of any customs union.

Johnson (the other one ) who is a staunch remainer has resigned because the deal leaves us powerless to influence the rules we will be bound by. “A failure of British statecraft on a scale unseen since the Suez crisis” he reckons. It’s reported that other remain leaning ministers are similarly on the brink of going.

Brexit politicians hate the deal because it takes us out but leaves us in so far as most of the EU rules and legal precedence is concerned.

Most people (cv excluded ) believe a no deal outcome would be severely detrimental to us.

One might rail against the obdurate EU but it shows just where the power lies - and it’s not with us. I doubt they will ever compromise their principles by anything more than a slight fraying around the edges.

Parliament is in total disarray and feelings run so strong that one wonders how agreement to the final May “deal” (if there is one) can be achieved. Quite how the Government will cut the Gordian knot will be interesting, particularly since they have said unequivocally that there will be no further referendum.

What an unholy mess.

Well, Remainers can now take some comfort from the fact that Brexiteers were right all along about leaving the disingenuous corrupt EU.

And to think it's 100 years to the day that the UK made the biggest sacrifice in order to keep all Europeans free. I suppose the European countries are just doing what they do best, roll over and surrender Well, not the UK, despite our appeaser PM.

Anyway, you will have to excuse me while I continue watching the march past.

 

[barjon]

Removal of Theresa or a general election ........ or both.

I’ve got some sympathy for TM who was set a nigh impossible task to square the circle ‘twixt the aspirations of the Brexiteers and the principles of the EU. A different leader would face the same conundrum. A general election would require parties to set out their form of Brexit with clarity - some hope, since they are all in disarray.v

 

[sminicooper]

I’ve got some sympathy for TM who was set a nigh impossible task to square the circle ‘twixt the aspirations of the Brexiteers and the principles of the EU. A different leader would face the same conundrum. A general election would require parties to set out their form of Brexit with clarity - some hope, since they are all in disarray.v

I'm afraid I haven't. She accepted the job by default and was never properly tested (more to the discredit of the Conservative party) and then went on to make fine speeches with laudable aims but all turned out to be false. Any politician with a sense of duty/honesty/self-respect would have resigned a long time ago.

 

[barjon]

Well, Remainers can now take some comfort from the fact that Brexiteers were right all along about leaving the disingenuous corrupt EU.

And to think it's 100 years to the day that the UK made the biggest sacrifice in order to keep all Europeans free. I suppose the European countries are just doing what they do best, roll over and surrender Well, not the UK, despite our appeaser PM.

Anyway, you will have to excuse me while I continue watching the march past.

That post is beneath you, cv

 

[counter_violent]

I'm afraid I haven't. She accepted the job by default and was never properly tested (more to the discredit of the Conservative party) and then went on to make fine speeches with laudable aims but all turned out to be false. Any politician with a sense of duty/honesty/self-respect would have resigned a long time ago.

Me neither, she thinks the voting public are stupid and she has been lead up the garden path by the likes of Hammond and the self interested business lobby. A proper leader would have set course and given no quarter to dissenting voices.

Note to remainers....UK GDP 3 Month figures 0.6% v EU 0.1% So don't bother trying to tell me again who is suffering from the Brexit effect. We all know that Europe will suffer the most, in fact, they are already heading towards recession despite their continuing QE.

 

[barjon]

I'm afraid I haven't. She accepted the job by default and was never properly tested (more to the discredit of the Conservative party) and then went on to make fine speeches with laudable aims but all turned out to be false. Any politician with a sense of duty/honesty/self-respect would have resigned a long time ago.

Agree mostly with that. She’s pretty second rate and she hasn’t wielded the stick very well - but it was a shiiity stick she was given.

 

[sminicooper]

Well, Remainers can now take some comfort from the fact that Brexiteers were right all along about leaving the disingenuous corrupt EU.

And to think it's 100 years to the day that the UK made the biggest sacrifice in order to keep all Europeans free. I suppose the European countries are just doing what they do best, roll over and surrender Well, not the UK, despite our appeaser PM.

Anyway, you will have to excuse me while I continue watching the march past.

And we had to do it all again 20 years later! Trump is right about Macron's European army – they should pay their NATO dues first in recognition of the protection it's given them since the end of WW2.

 

[counter_violent]

And we had to do it all again 20 years later! Trump is right about Macron's European army – they should pay their NATO dues first in recognition of the protection it's given them since the end of WW2.

Woah steady on....I got a bollocking for stating the bleeding obvious, I wouldn't want you to end up in the naughty corner too.

 

[counter_violent]

Out of interest

Who here has visited any war cemetery's in Europe?

A sobering experience, they were just kids.

 

[sminicooper]

Who here has visited any war cemetery's in Europe?

A sobering experience, they were just kids.

Yes. Attended Nov 11th commemorations regularly in Europe for a number of years at cemeteries full of boys required to do men's work. Dreadful.

 

[Signalcalc]

Who here has visited any war cemetery's in Europe?

A sobering experience, they were just kids.

Visited Normandy beaches and graves, not had a chance to visit WWI graves yet, always a sobering day of the year, until the parade is over, then it’s down the pub lads and lasses [emoji481]

 

[Atilla]

Well Putin has given a thumbs up to Macaron's EU army suggestion and there is talk it can replace the outdated NATO institution which Trumpie dude thinks is not worth much, just another very bad deal he can do better without.

In fact Russia's role also quite prominent in the EU based on history as we all know and EU is indeed a most fantastic and fabulous peaceful conception that has come out of the two WWars.

EU will progress forward linking up Russia and the far East and with Trump and Brexit sadly if it does continue we will find our selves in a very bad position aligning our selves with Trumpism which is already in decline.

We will also miss out on great and new fantastic technological revolutions coming our way which ultimately require global cooperation to reap the fruits of inventions.

Sadly, Brexiteers lack global vision and strategy other than rhetoric which we can increasingly see, found to be wanting with no credible plans other than political interest and ambitions of a few short sighted politicians who can only see things looking down their snotty noses.


I think Trump is no better demonstration of where Brexiteers will take the UK.
Guy is all me me me. Who thinks America is great standing behind Trump. Absolute shameful disgrace of a man.

Who really thinks UK will be Greater than what it is today after Brexit?

To hark on about the two World Wars or UK position before then simply demonstrates folly of Brexiteers visions imho.

 

[aa9]

No-one can predict with any certainty what will happen to sterling as we approach Brexit, and it’s important to remember that there are several different factors as well as our departure from the EU which affect its value.

These include inflation or the costs of living, which fell to 2.4% in April, as measured by the Consumer Prices Index measure of inflation. Falling inflation eases pressure on the Bank of England to raise interest rates. When interest rates are low, this often has the effect of deterring foreign investors as their money will earn less interest, reducing the pound’s relative value.

Although sterling is currently weak, the more clarity there is over Brexit, the more likely some commentators believe it is that we will see the pound rise in value in coming months. However, many potential hurdles in Brexit negotiations lie ahead, and it’s impossible to predict exactly how sterling will react. It therefore makes sense for anyone considering making foreign currency transfers in the run up to, and after, Brexit to ensure they are prepared for sterling volatility.