sminicooper
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It's not similar to Hong Kong. Hong Kong was taken on a long lease and the legal agreement was to hand it back at the end. Gibraltar was purchased with no legal requirement to hand it back.
It's not similar to Hong Kong. Hong Kong was taken on a long lease and the legal agreement was to hand it back at the end. Gibraltar was purchased with no legal requirement to hand it back.
C
cantagril
...don't forget Louisiana!...and what about Aquitaine? - after all, we've re-colonised it quite successfully
New Spanish roads belong to the UK. We paid for them along with the Germans Dutch, Italians and the French
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036097.stm#start
Thanks, but we'll hang on to them, if you don't mind. You should have thought about all that before you went in.
I'm not talking about the Rock, itself, although Spain wants it back--that's true. The point is that, like Hong Kong, Gib is going to have a hard time if Spain chooses to work to rule regarding passport and customs checks
Gibraltarians have been buying land in Spain because there is a space problem.
Poor China, poor EU, poor Russia all being bullied by a single man, how weak they must be
It's no laughing matter. This guy is capable of getting everyone into a war with his big mouth.
sminicooper
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Next you guys will be suggesting giving back America to the Indians. Ooops I mean native Americans.
India to the Moguls
Hopefully Madrid has more important problems.
etc.
Nah! - we should take America back, no need to wait for them to offer it. :idea:
counter_violent
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That's so right, which is why i give those who signed us up a particularly hard time. Voters back then were more trusting and had less access to proper information, but too lazy to bother finding out what was at stake.
Atilla
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Indeed - Whatever the new reality, we will adapt eventually. In the meantime it will be the UK going to hell and not the EU.
Some of the reasons are in a couple of basic misconceptions about Brits and our place in the Grand Scheme of Things as evidenced by the excellent Messrs. Morton and Atilla:
Yes they are (as it's panto season do feel free to shout "Oh no they're not!")... and we wouldn't be in this shiite* if they weren't.
Secondly:
Again, part of the problem is that we are a small country that has been in relative economic and political decline for the best part of a hundred years. We had our day in the sun (or 15 minutes of fame, if you prefer) and the world can get along very nicely without us and that includes the EU.
So that's us in a nutshell: stupid, irrelevant and living in the past.
I might be a tad sad if I wasn't such a patriot
*apologies to any Shiites on the forum
I disagree with this strongly Sir Canta, UK is not a small country. In terms of land and population size maybe but on the global stage we are in the top 10 and in economic terms 5th largest in the World.
In terms of influence I would say we are tops with the other super powers. It's not all about hard power. We have global connections and we are cool Britania. At least we were before this Brexit fiasco. I believe we still can be which is why the old dog will never lie down.
Where ever there were British colonies India, Hong Kong, USA and other places we have left a lasting legacy of good system and if nothing else the Queens English.
By virtue of speaking English those people have access to leading sciences in the World. It's all in English and doesn't need to be interpreted for it to be comprehensive. We left behind thriving colonies.
The Spanish or Portuguese didn't do half as much with Latin America. French and Europe didn't do much with Africa either. Two great exploited and colonised continents but still remain relatively behind compared to Britain's ex-colonies. Look at America and North America along with the silk road all the way to Hong Kong. Only place we may have messed up a little was the ME. However, we didn't have much time spent there before yanks took over so the greater blames lies with them I reckon.
Britain has contacts and influence all over the world not forgetting the Commonwealth countries either. In fact in the first and 2nd WW so many other nations fought alongside us, giving their lives to the greater good. I'd say we are (or were) probably still are well respected and much loved. The Englishman is a true gentleman indeed. Sting even wrote a song about it. Not far from the truth
We can do a great deal selling them our esteemed system of organisation and good governance. Build infrastructure. Connect and smooth trades. Offer many of our finance and technological know hows. Open new routes and alliances.
In fact I don't think any country in the world is as quite well connected as the UK. Being 5th on the GDP scale is a great boon too. So no we are not small but World leaders imo.
Brexit is not the way to make us stronger or better. On the contrary its by connecting with our international partners inclusive of EU, US the far East and opening up Africa and Latin America is the way to go imo.
I'm not for picking and choosing. I would like to have it all. Good relations with all our past alliances building on history with trade. We don't have to leave the EU to achieve that.
Germany is forging alliances with China on robotics and mechanisation to compete with Japan. We should be doing the same. There is so much opportunity we could be getting on with right now, instead of this daft fecked up Brexit fiasco, eating in to valuable resource and parliamentary time, it is an absolute crying shame.
Small country we are not. I haven't even touched on our Monarchy. They do so much to bring people together. Soft diplomacy at its best. Nobody does it quite like we do either.
UK is a great country, amongst league of nations we are way up there at the top. It's not about size, mass or weight. It's about thoroughbred legacy of achievements and what we have accomplished that still shines today.
Agree with the other stuff you said but that's less important. We are catching up on the economics and politics is still good. Our institutions stand strong. Thank heavens to our our Magna Carta, Parliament and HoL's.
Personally, I think you've been in France perhaps a lil too long and beginning to mix up the merde stuff with our sh!t. Ain't the same. Trust me I know. :cheesy:
Atilla
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Ehemm.... Correction if I may :whistling
The war machine brought Germany out of the recession but it was housing that brought US out of the great depression.
Atilla
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Trump has made being Great an ugly word.
Being all great and powerful means kicking ass and bullying and having your way with pussies.
There is nothing great about that.
It's about connecting, teaming up and sharing a win/win dream.
In a race what steals your heart, tripping someone over to win a race or lending your shoulder to a competitor whose suffering to win together.
Feck Greatness. New World Order is being Connected.
You old WWII great numpties should wake up and smell the coffee.
EU, Russia and China connecting up with the great silk road and new railway lines.
New infrastructures and driverless road networks.
You lot keep looking behind your rears. Soooo yesterday
counter_violent
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Trump has made being Great an ugly word.
Being all great and powerful means kicking ass and bullying and having your way with pussies.
There is nothing great about that.
It's about connecting, teaming up and sharing a win/win dream.
In a race what steals your heart, tripping someone over to win a race or lending your shoulder to a competitor whose suffering to win together.
Feck Greatness. New World Order is being Connected.
You old WWII great numpties should wake up and smell the coffee.
EU, Russia and China connecting up with the great silk road and new railway lines.
New infrastructures and driverless road networks.
You lot keep looking behind your rears. Soooo yesterday
The Russians might be in charge of Interpol by tomorrow. How does that fit with your New World Order vision. Russia critics won't be safe anywhere.
China routinely disappears it's critics.
Full of it you are !
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Atilla
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The Russians might be in charge of Interpol by tomorrow. How does that fit with your New World Order vision. Russia critics won't be safe anywhere.
China routinely disappears it's critics.
Full of it you are !
That's really rich that is. Especially in light of renditions by the US and Saudies. Even more so in light of Kashoggi case and Trump and UK support for them.
How many people have the yanks picked up, tortured and have killed all over the place. Latin America what with the supported Juntas and the ME with the Sauidies.
In the same breath Trump supports Saudies and heaps shed loads on Iran. Supplies weapons of mass destruction to Iraqis to kill Iranians and then deems Iran enemy of America and sells weapons to Saudies to kill more Iranians.
Axis of evil project still in full flow. Iraq, Syria and Iran. Thank goodness for Russia and China to stop the yanks with their daft greed for more of worlds resources. Sh!t stirring all over the globe. No thank you. Have had belly full of yankee cowboys kicking ass all over the world.
It's one or the other.
fwiw I don't see Russia or China as enemies no.
I see US losing leadership of the free world.
Pat494
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All countries have their dark sides both big and small.
Britain and Europe could show leadership here but the scramble for survival is a powerful force for the dark side. No fun being some sort of holier than thou BUT broke and ineffective. Reality rules.
Britain and Europe could show leadership here but the scramble for survival is a powerful force for the dark side. No fun being some sort of holier than thou BUT broke and ineffective. Reality rules.
Atilla
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Yes and that's where Brexit will take us.
Politicians playing blame game to hijack power from Parliament.
Shenanigans has been going on for too long now. Plain to see wouldn't you say? :whistling
counter_violent
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C
cantagril
I disagree with this strongly Sir Canta, UK is not a small country.
................
In fact I don't think any country in the world is as quite well connected as the UK. Being 5th on the GDP scale is a great boon too. So no we are not small but World leaders imo.
Small country we are not. I haven't even touched on our Monarchy. They do so much to bring people together. Soft diplomacy at its best. Nobody does it quite like we do either.
UK is a great country, amongst league of nations we are way up there at the top. It's not about size, mass or weight. It's about thoroughbred legacy of achievements and what we have accomplished that still shines today.
...............
Personally, I think you've been in France perhaps a lil too long and beginning to mix up the merde stuff with our sh!t. Ain't the same. Trust me I know. :cheesy:
Hmmm. I admit that there was an element of stirring in my original comments but I think that if you consider that I did specifically use the word "relative" with regard to our present day lack of hugeness (along with the incontrovertible downward track of the UK's economic and military power which started with WW1) you will acknowledge that there has been a decline in the UK's ranking. We are on the way to becoming Belgium though we aren't there just yet. This is not one political party's fault nor has there been one defining moment. The culture (be it good or bad) that got us to the top of the tree for 150 years is not the culture of present day Britain. All things must pass....and we already have, even though it might be hard to admit it.
And as for my spending too much time across the ditch: yes, I've only been back here a couple of years (and sincerely hope that I'll be over there again asap) but it's not just France that has been an influence on my worldview and palate. Rather like Split, I've spent two thirds of what is getting to be a fairly lengthy life as an ex-pat in various parts of the world whilst still calling France my home. I've done some longish stints in North Africa and Japan. I'm also of mongrel european heritage and an army brat to boot and so have lived in 4 other western countries for several years. I do fully realise that this makes me perhaps less qualified to understand to properly comprehend the thinking of longer term Blighty denizens but stupidity, ignorance and gullibility would seem to explain a lot of it.
An entertaining experience for me has been the complete bafflement of my various German, French, Spanish, Italian, Japanese and Arab acquaintances on the subject of Brexit. Universally they have expressed their opinion on the UK's position in very much the same terms as that nice sign language lady did ...but with a bit more amusement. In reply to their question "Why?!!!!" I have been able to reply only that for about half the population Brexit seemed like a good idea at the time.....
counter_violent
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Which doesn't explain why other EU member countries are following our lead.
Direction of travel is clear.
Pat494
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I see some merit in the argument that the Scots could stay in the EU and England leave. Duty could be charged on any goods going south/north through the chunnel.
Westminster is so ineffective these days that they may have lost the will to govern properly.
Westminster is so ineffective these days that they may have lost the will to govern properly.
