Brexit and the Consequences

[Signalcalc]

With the utmost respect: COBBLERS!

Corruption, venality and self-interest are not the preserve of toffs. There is a certain level of inverse snobbery extant in present media circles where anyone who's been to private school is somehow tainted and not "genuine" whereas working-class made good are automatically salt-of-the-earth good, honest folk with the best interests of the general population close to their hearts. It is my experience that once newcomers realise that they have joined the club that awards them a place at the trough they get progressively more reluctant to withdraw their snouts. I would draw your attention to the not so distant MP expenses scandal where the great and the good from both sides of the House were seen to be very keen on remaining more equal than others.

To accord you your due with regard to the privileged Oxbridge types, it is completely true that the Public Schools and Universities were seen as being for the education of the ruling class; though there has been some headway in making entry more egalitarian I would agree that there is a long way to go but would question whether that will bring about any improvements in the UK political apparatus.

OK, I can agree with that! Historically can we establish that Oxbridge toffs were the only one's capable of reaching political corruption because of past privilege and that clearly the situation has been changing for a number of decades now - more working class have been reaching the political arena whilst simultaneously the toffs have cleaned their act up a bit. As a result the level of corruption is not due to class and privilege but due to individual moral standing (and access to people and resources that can enable corruption)?

What is the baseline level of corruption in the house though? And who is defining corruption? Many, myself included, think that not continuing with Brexit on the 29th March as the house agreed, voted on and passed into law would be a betrayal of democracy and therefore a corruption of MPs positions, regardless of the outcome. Those that take an opposing view would argue that to take us out of the EU without a deal is a form of corruption.

I thought we had a set of democratic and moralistic rules that decided where the line is drawn, in the form of process and voting!?

 

[Atilla]

Based on my past studies, on the decline of the British Empire, aristocracy and snobbery played a distinct part believing our selves to be superior v rest of the World and focusing effort and resources in wrong areas. Sadly, I fear and observe, history does indeed repeat itself and this misplaced belief of greatness is still with us. Increasingly, I'm growing to despise the word GREAT for what it represents in objective to attain power, rather than any achievement or accomplishment having delivered something to be proud of. Power is nothing but an ability to do what is desired. Get from A to B. It is the exercise of power where greatness lies.

Even today, UK lacks many skills, engineers being key. What we have today is software engineering taking over from manufacturing, which has been effectively outsourced to the far East, in the guise of globalisation. However, India and China rapidly catching up and US now thinking and feeling those Chinese are stepping into their markets ie mobile phones and technology products. Effectively the technology gap is narrowing and having lost the manufacturing war, US looking to maintain technology lead.

EU isn't in any way part of this problem imo. EU does try and protect her industries yes and prefers to cooperate with Russia and China rather than become an adversary. This is where UK and US policies go askew imo.

I do agree rather than calling a referendum, a white paper should have been called for, researched and written up with cross-party support including UKIP. Subject matter should have been debated thoroughly in Parliament and the HoLs. Those in favour of Brexit should have made a case and presented some options with the how to get there that carries some weight rather than the hope and glory emotive expressions flying all over our skewed media and a celebrity like a referendum.

Referendum was called for all the wrong political party reasons, with minimal thought, due process or diligence. In summary we have poor input to a very complex and delicate decision, ending up with a jar of pickled eggs and onions not very appetising at all. Brexit gone all wrong. Who ever is happy with the current situation either knows something we don't or is unaware of potential impacts. I think it's the latter. I'm waiting for a leaflet from HM Gov telling me to stock up on beans and tuna and spare batteries for the radio very soon.

 

[barjon]

OK, I can go agree with that! Historically can we establish that Oxbridge toffs were the only one's capable of reaching political corruption because of past privilege and that clearly the situation has been changing for a number of decades now - more working class have been reaching the political arena whilst simultaneously the toffs have cleaned their act up a bit. As a result the level of corruption is not due to class and privilege but due to individual moral standing (and access to people and resources that can enable corruption)?

What is the baseline level of corruption in the house though? And who is defining corruption? Many, myself included, think that not continuing with Brexit on the 29th March as the house agreed, voted on and passed into law would be a betrayal of democracy and therefore a corruption of MPs positions, regardless of the outcome. Those that take an opposing view would argue that to take us out of the EU without a deal is a form of corruption.

I thought we had a set of democratic and moralistic rules that decided where the line is drawn, in the form of process and voting!?

Rather like the difference between tax avoidance and tax fraud - the first is morally reprehensible whilst the second crosses the line into illegality - I think that “corruption” is a strong word that needs to be shrouded in the cloak of illegality to justify its use. That’s how I think of it anyway.

 

[Pat494]

Perhaps I could get a word in for the past politicians etc.
They weren't as bad in my view as they are currently painted by aspiring politicians who still use HM Govt. as the vote catching whipping boy when it is in reality themselves and their contempories who are jockeying for power and wealth, who are to blame.
The awful dictatorships that came bursting through in Africa/Asia are mostly greedy local politicians.
Many Brits genuinely went out to far flung territories to help and not to plunder as depicted by the Left wing trouble makers.
And many gave their lives and died there for others.

 

[Atilla]

Rather like the difference between tax avoidance and tax fraud - the first is morally reprehensible whilst the second crosses the line into illegality - I think that “corruption” is a strong word that needs to be shrouded in the cloak of illegality to justify its use. That’s how I think of it anyway.

In some countries, it's part of the price mechanism on prioritising who wins a contract or who values service delivery most.

I'm not saying it's right but corruption and bribery is not all black or white.

For example our foreign aid budgets can be seen as bribery for winning influence. Does it really help those in need or those in government.

Depends on ones perspective and hidden agendas behind closed doors.

Same could be said of our FTSE CEO numerations. Once again behind closed doors with no accountability. If you go down to Big Corp HR, they'll tell you we've conducted an industry wide survey and market rates are such and such for your job description and role at your grade. You can see how the system can be skewed and hijacked.

Then there is entertainment of potential buyers... Is that a transaction cost of doing business or bribery to sway opinion?

I think the politicians and people in power simply dress up, tart up whatever, whereas those lower down the ladder or rank don't bother so much with subtlety.

 

[0007]

Rather like the difference between tax avoidance and tax fraud - the first is morally reprehensible whilst the second crosses the line into illegality - I think that “corruption” is a strong word that needs to be shrouded in the cloak of illegality to justify its use. That’s how I think of it anyway.

Tax avoidance morally reprehensible? Whenever I buy something I try to avoid paying a higher price than I have to, thus disadvantaging anyone involved in selling the more expensive stuff; when I do my trading I'm taking money from the 80% of losers and no doubt some of them will suffer. Is that being morally reprehensible? You can also argue that legal tax avoidance keeps money out of the government pocket thus preventing it from being spent unwisely and wastefully. After all, income tax was only introduced as a temporary measure to fund unwise and wasteful expenditure

 

[barjon]

Tax avoidance morally reprehensible? Whenever I buy something I try to avoid paying a higher price than I have to, thus disadvantaging anyone involved in selling the more expensive stuff; when I do my trading I'm taking money from the 80% of losers and no doubt some of them will suffer. Is that being morally reprehensible? You can also argue that legal tax avoidance keeps money out of the government pocket thus preventing it from being spent unwisely and wastefully. After all, income tax was only introduced as a temporary measure to fund unwise and wasteful expenditure

You are quite entitled to avoid paying a higher price for something, but if you know that the price is cheaper because the seller is not going to pay the required VAT on the sale then it is morally reprehensible (not illegal unless you have proof positive) for you to take the cheaper price.

 

[Windlesham1]

you need to see this:

 

[0007]

you need to see this:

A good exposition of May's treachery.

 

[Signalcalc]

Farage tells it how it is again

https://twitter.com/x/status/1090653262032920576

 

[Signalcalc]

Remainers just not getting it.

 

[Atilla]

Nissan 'U-turn' expected on new X-Trail SUV in Sunderland

Is this a Brexit issue or diesel demand dropoff somewhat up in the air. Either way, worrying news for Sunderland.

 

[Signalcalc]

Nissan 'U-turn' expected on new X-Trail SUV in Sunderland

Is this a Brexit issue or diesel demand dropoff somewhat up in the air. Either way, worrying news for Sunderland.

It's a good question, did you notice Adonis is blaming it on Brexit

Whatever the reason it's highly political as Nisaan won't comment, my guess is diesel fall-off predictions now that UK is committed to electric. Plus car industry as a whole in its cyclic decline, sentiment buys cars, pessimistic as it may be, the bloody S&P won't go down

 

[0007]

It's a good question, did you notice Adonis is blaming it on Brexit

Whatever the reason it's highly political as Nisaan won't comment, my guess is diesel fall-off predictions now that UK is committed to electric. Plus car industry as a whole in its cyclic decline, sentiment buys cars, pessimistic as it may be, the bloody S&P won't go down

No doubt there will be a whole load of enterprises using Brexit as an excuse for their poor performances. (Remember shopkeepers & their price increases due to decimalisation?) WRT to Nissan - if it's Brexit related why aren't they moving production to another EU country with even cheaper labour? I'm just now waiting for some wacky trader to blame Brexit for his failures!

 

[Windlesham1]

All the car makers are up the Swannee- Elon Musk is the man - streets ahead of the diesel dinosaurs. They will all suffer until they go electric- hydrogen is not the answer

 

[NVP]

the word commerciality is academically understood by our esteemed and knowledgable politicians and civil servants........but that’s where it sadly ends.......being preached to continuously by people who couldn’t even sell water in a desert is tedious and downright insulting .......

but then ........that’s politics

N

 

[NVP]

No doubt there will be a whole load of enterprises using Brexit as an excuse for their poor performances. (Remember shopkeepers & their price increases due to decimalisation?) WRT to Nissan - if it's Brexit related why aren't they moving production to another EU country with even cheaper labour? I'm just now waiting for some wacky trader to blame Brexit for his failures!

well as excuses go.......i’ve seen a lot worse

 

[Atilla]

It's a good question, did you notice Adonis is blaming it on Brexit

Whatever the reason it's highly political as Nisaan won't comment, my guess is diesel fall-off predictions now that UK is committed to electric. Plus car industry as a whole in its cyclic decline, sentiment buys cars, pessimistic as it may be, the bloody S&P won't go down

Aren't you falling into the same pot hole as remainers?

Listening to peeps on news, Brexit uncertainty has something to do with where to invest in the production of next fleet of cars; whether tjhey be petrol or electric.

View is if Brexit does turn ugly then Japan will no longer invest in car production in UK that's certain. Even if Japan produces electric cars, they face same EU import hurdle. Much better to continue with current setup and investments then start anew.

As before industries will locate near to their markets or resource inputs. No reason to change a working model.

One thing is certain, Brexit uncertainty is not helping investment coming into the UK for obvious reasons.

 

[counter_violent]

Aren't you falling into the same pot hole as remainers?

Listening to peeps on news, Brexit uncertainty has something to do with where to invest in the production of next fleet of cars; whether tjhey be petrol or electric.

View is if Brexit does turn ugly then Japan will no longer invest in car production in UK that's certain. Even if Japan produces electric cars, they face same EU import hurdle. Much better to continue with current setup and investments then start anew.

As before industries will locate near to their markets or resource inputs. No reason to change a working model.

One thing is certain, Brexit uncertainty is not helping investment coming into the UK for obvious reasons.

A few links back we clearly demonstrated that the UK has more inward investment than Germany,France combined. But still you prefer to go against the facts.

We all know that when the UK leaves, the Europeans will be left in the dust cloud. That is what they are afraid of which is why they will do whatever it takes to keep us aligned. They have no desire to reform......but reform they will.

 

[Atilla]

A few links back we clearly demonstrated that the UK has more inward investment than Germany,France combined. But still you prefer to go against the facts.

We all know that when the UK leaves, the Europeans will be left in the dust cloud. That is what they are afraid of which is why they will do whatever it takes to keep us aligned. They have no desire to reform......but reform they will.

I hope you a right and it continues that way.