Brexit and the Consequences

counter_violent

Legendary member
9,339 2,355
This lies at the crux of the problem of free movement.

You could just as easily apply the same phenomena across cities, countries, regions and even extend it to globalisation. If large centers are populated by wealth, expertise, youth etc, then it must follow that all other areas become poorer in many respects and this creates divides.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36854272
 
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barjon

Legendary member
10,207 1,522
This lies at the crux of the problem of free movement.

You could just as easily apply the same phenomena across cities, countries, regions and even extend it to globalisation. If large centers are populated by wealth, expertise, youth etc, then it must follow that all other areas become poorer in many respects and this creates divides.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36854272
Wasn't there some guy a few years ago forecasting a breakdown of the nation state model to be gradually replaced by a reversion to the fortified city model that preceded nation states.
 

Atilla

Legendary member
18,580 2,579
Skanska Expects Brexit to Hurt Non-Housing U.K. Construction

Skanska AB, the Swedish construction company that built the City of London’s landmark Gherkin building, lowered its outlook for U.K. non-residential construction after the country voted to leave the European Union.

“Ahead of the Brexit vote, private developers were in a wait-and-see mode and refrained from starting projects -- that cautiousness has continued after the referendum,” Chief Executive Officer Johan Karlstroem said in a phone interview on Friday. “The worst case scenario is a continued prolonged uncertainty.”
 

counter_violent

Legendary member
9,339 2,355
This lies at the crux of the problem of free movement.

You could just as easily apply the same phenomena across cities, countries, regions and even extend it to globalisation. If large centers are populated by wealth, expertise, youth etc, then it must follow that all other areas become poorer in many respects and this creates divides.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36854272
Newsnight special.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07m8n2j/newsnight-brexit-britain-one-month-in-newsnight-special
 

Atilla

Legendary member
18,580 2,579
More talk talk. Nothing new. Still none the wiser on what's on offer. Yes the Brexit campaign was great and Remain was shiite.

Facts:
1. Sterling down 10%+
2. PMI shows much bigger than expected fall
3. Investments on hold or cancelled in UK until further noticte

Plans going forward:
1. Brexit means Brexit! What does Brexit mean?
2. Article 50 will not be invoked this year?
3. People in charge favour Canadian style membership! Not confirmed?
4. Australia and India would like trade deals with us???
a) What are current import/exports now to these countries?
b) What is the new deal on the table?
c) What does this mean in terms of gains and losses?
d) Is this something that we can sign up to without jeopardising EU trade (as we are led to believe that EU staunts us making trade deals with rest of the world)


Absolutely no facts other than talk and more talk.

Did I miss anything? :rolleyes:
 

counter_violent

Legendary member
9,339 2,355
More talk talk. Nothing new. Still none the wiser on what's on offer. Yes the Brexit campaign was great and Remain was shiite.

Facts:
1. Sterling down 10%+
2. PMI shows much bigger than expected fall
3. Investments on hold or cancelled in UK until further noticte

Plans going forward:
1. Brexit means Brexit! What does Brexit mean?
2. Article 50 will not be invoked this year?
3. People in charge favour Canadian style membership! Not confirmed?
4. Australia and India would like trade deals with us???
a) What are current import/exports now to these countries?
b) What is the new deal on the table?
c) What does this mean in terms of gains and losses?
d) Is this something that we can sign up to without jeopardising EU trade (as we are led to believe that EU staunts us making trade deals with rest of the world)


Absolutely no facts other than talk and more talk.

Did I miss anything? :rolleyes:
I'm just making available what's on offer.
I don't write the news !

But you are probably bored of hearing my opinion anyhow :LOL:

Sounds a bit like you are surprised that the Govt didn't have a post Brexit plan.
Can't say i'm surprised for a min.

The fault lies with arrogant politicians who didn't bank on the British public to bloody their noses.
I bet they won't make that mistake again in a hurry :LOL:
 

Atilla

Legendary member
18,580 2,579
I'm just making available what's on offer.
I don't write the news !

But you are probably bored of hearing my opinion anyhow :LOL:

Sounds a bit like you are surprised that the Govt didn't have a post Brexit plan.
Can't say i'm surprised for a min.

The fault lies with arrogant politicians who didn't bank on the British public to bloody their noses.
I bet they won't make that mistake again in a hurry :LOL:
Well there was much analysis of what went wrong, why, but not much about post Brexit, which is what I'm looking forward at.

I do feel that the outcome will bear fruit one way or another in 10-20 years time however.

Heard Chinese now want a free trade agreement with us but can't talk any detail until we leave.

Fear we have a bit of the catch-22 syndrome coming upon us.

What I did notice, was that both Merkel and Holland held the EU line that single market membership meant free movement of people which they did not wish to compromise on. That doesn't sound good and I didn't receive that well.

There is some talk of temporary hold on free movement but what does temporary mean and what will it get us?
 

counter_violent

Legendary member
9,339 2,355
Well there was much analysis of what went wrong, why, but not much about post Brexit, which is what I'm looking forward at.

I do feel that the outcome will bear fruit one way or another in 10-20 years time however.

Heard Chinese now want a free trade agreement with us but can't talk any detail until we leave.

Fear we have a bit of the catch-22 syndrome coming upon us.

What I did notice, was that both Merkel and Holland held the EU line that single market membership meant free movement of people which they did not wish to compromise on. That doesn't sound good and I didn't receive that well.

There is some talk of temporary hold on free movement but what does temporary mean and what will it get us?
Posturing. They both have elections coming up. Hollande needn't bother cos he will be out anyway, but Merkel has all to play for. Her problem of course is to appear tough and uncompromising to the German electorate and the Brussels machine, but business are the paymasters, so whatever they decide is needed will be the order.

Our strength is in taking an uncompromising stance on this free movement issue. The EU needs to be under no illusion, that because we are more efficient and have more flexibility re labour laws, that the rest of the EU needs to get it's own house in order, before trying to lay the law down and lecture us. We should not be the scapegoat of the EU, whereby they get to export their unemployment problem to the UK.
 

Atilla

Legendary member
18,580 2,579
Posturing. They both have elections coming up. Hollande needn't bother cos he will be out anyway, but Merkel has all to play for. Her problem of course is to appear tough and uncompromising to the German electorate and the Brussels machine, but business are the paymasters, so whatever they decide is needed will be the order.

Our strength is in taking an uncompromising stance on this free movement issue. The EU needs to be under no illusion, that because we are more efficient and have more flexibility re labour laws, that the rest of the EU needs to get it's own house in order, before trying to lay the law down and lecture us. We should not be the scapegoat of the EU, whereby they get to export their unemployment problem to the UK.

Difference of opinion here CV. Increase in population and migrant labour drives growth and GDP. In fact so much so that even Sweden has started doing so and there were press articles written so.

Hear what you saying about posturing pre-negotiations and sounding out the opposition. It's all very basic and non-engaging at the moment.

There mixed soundbites coming from Mr Schauble the German Finance Minister. He is one to watch. He is bad cop. Merkel good cop.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-23/schaeuble-is-putting-financial-transaction-tax-on-global-agenda
 

hhiusa

Senior member
2,683 138
The immigration problem in Sweden has made the Swedish Democrats one of the most popular parties there. For those of you that do not know, they are the right-wing anti-immigrant party. In some polls they are slightly ahead of the Social Democratic Party (the leader for quite some time prior to the refugee crisis) and in some polls they are slightly behind.
 

Atilla

Legendary member
18,580 2,579
People vote with their hearts and not with their heads.

When it comes to capitalism and number crunching the boot is on the other foot. People put away their hearts and conscience and simply count the pennies.

Either way, there is a debt crises with an aging birth rate and rising tax burden. Solution is one of two headed evil dragon (inflation & migration as potential solutions) that's looking to consume hearts and minds. Alternatively, raise taxes to pay off debt.

I make no apologies for selective articles to make point.

http://www.thelocal.se/20151116/refugee-crisis-could-boost-swedish-economy

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/20/imf-refugee-influx-provide-eu-economic-boost

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/28/refugee-crisis-to-boost-european-gdp-as-governments-increase-spending-moscovici-says.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-refugee-crisis-will-actually-have-a-sizable-positive-economic-impact-on-european-countries-eu-a6722396.html
 

Splitlink

Legendary member
10,850 1,231
People vote with their hearts and not with their heads.

When it comes to capitalism and number crunching the boot is on the other foot. People put away their hearts and conscience and simply count the pennies.

Either way, there is a debt crises with an aging birth rate and rising tax burden. Solution is one of two headed evil dragon (inflation & migration as potential solutions) that's looking to consume hearts and minds. Alternatively, raise taxes to pay off debt.

I make no apologies for selective articles to make point.

http://www.thelocal.se/20151116/refugee-crisis-could-boost-swedish-economy

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/20/imf-refugee-influx-provide-eu-economic-boost

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/28/refugee-crisis-to-boost-european-gdp-as-governments-increase-spending-moscovici-says.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-refugee-crisis-will-actually-have-a-sizable-positive-economic-impact-on-european-countries-eu-a6722396.html
Your "no apologies for grim reading" comment has put me off reading those articles!

I'll take your word for them.