Brexit and the Consequences

Hi 0007,
I would agree with your assessment but for one thing: the divide between Farage's new Brexit party and UKIP. IMO, it's a great shame that Farage can't reconcile his differences with UKIP - and Gerard Batten in particular - as having two parties fighting on the same platform is bound to split the vote. For that reason, my guess is that the Tories and Labour will be doing all they can to encourage Farage to start a new party as that could just save their bacon come the next election. Batten's big mistake was to embrace Tommy Robinson, regardless of whether he's a rotten egg or a good bloke who's been the victim of a smear campaign. As always, it's perception that matters - to the exclusion of all else - including the facts. And, rightly or wrongly, the public perception is that Robinson is a really rotten egg, such that for every new voter he draws to UKIP - two or more (existing or potential) voters will be repelled or fall away. That was Batten's one big mistake, otherwise he appears to me to be doing a half decent job and comes across pretty well in interviews and debates etc.
Tim.

Farage will never go back to UKIP. He clearly realises that in order to achieve his main objective, which is to leave the EU, then he would need to attract like minded voters regardless of previous party affiliation. He seems to be committed to the Leave means Leave coalition, having spoken at a number of events across the UK. Also i'm not convinced that the UK need do anything much in the run up to the European elections. We have started the liberation process and it seems pretty clear that 2019 is going to be the EU's Annus horribilis . At best they will be battling on numerous fronts as the shape of the EU parliament changes. At worst, the whole thing falls apart. So I don't think we need to get too excited about what the UK needs to do as the Europeans will take over the running this year.

Domestic politics could get quite interesting over here mind. There's lots of chatter about Tory splits, Labour splits, new parties etc. I think Labour will definitely fall apart. The Tories might just pull back from the brink, once they see what's going on inside Labour. The Lib Dems won't make any headway, they don't seem to have a credible leader, yet alone a replacement.:LOL:

The SNP are also on the wane and are hated by the majority of sensible Scots. Did anyone watch Q time from Motherwell? Some extremely vociferous audience members having a right pop at the SNP rep on the panel.
 
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The general European view of Brexit is...……….good riddance.
Since Mrs T tried to get better terms have some Brits been moaning.
Party leaders should have exercised some authority imho.
 
The general European view of Brexit is...……….good riddance.
Since Mrs T tried to get better terms have some Brits been moaning.
Party leaders should have exercised some authority imho.

Mrs T did get better terms, she was the only One that did mind. The rest of the treacherous bastards were happily giving it all away.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk...d-in-excess-of-e111-billion-by-eu-since-1985/

Anyway, on the bright side, we are leaving and that's that.
 
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This lady doesn't need to get naked to get her point across or make an argument.

]

Though in her case I feel it should be made compulsory, :love:

I see David Davis and others have confirmed what everyone thought at the time, That number 10 strangled their negotiations in order to steer towards a brino deal, Its shocking how a handful of politicians and civil servants have caused so much frustration to the process, They must feel they are virtually untouchable..
 
. . ..I see David Davis and others have confirmed what everyone thought at the time, That number 10 strangled their negotiations in order to steer towards a brino deal, Its shocking how a handful of politicians and civil servants have caused so much frustration to the process, They must feel they are virtually untouchable..
Yes indeed Mike and, in the same vein, check out Suella Braverman's equally shocking testimony to the European Scrutiny Committee: BREXIT: Brexit compromise became 'total surrender' - Former Brexit minister Suella Braverman
Tim.
 
Though in her case I feel it should be made compulsory, :love:

I see David Davis and others have confirmed what everyone thought at the time, That number 10 strangled their negotiations in order to steer towards a brino deal, Its shocking how a handful of politicians and civil servants have caused so much frustration to the process, They must feel they are virtually untouchable..

No no no......it's because they genuinely know better than us Mike. They are saving us from ourselves and we ought to be thankful. :whistle:
 
Hi 0007,
I would agree with your assessment but for one thing: the divide between Farage's new Brexit party and UKIP. IMO, it's a great shame that Farage can't reconcile his differences with UKIP - and Gerard Batten in particular - as having two parties fighting on the same platform is bound to split the vote. For that reason, my guess is that the Tories and Labour will be doing all they can to encourage Farage to start a new party as that could just save their bacon come the next election. Batten's big mistake was to embrace Tommy Robinson, regardless of whether he's a rotten egg or a good bloke who's been the victim of a smear campaign. As always, it's perception that matters - to the exclusion of all else - including the facts. And, rightly or wrongly, the public perception is that Robinson is a really rotten egg, such that for every new voter he draws to UKIP - two or more (existing or potential) voters will be repelled or fall away. That was Batten's one big mistake, otherwise he appears to me to be doing a half decent job and comes across pretty well in interviews and debates etc.
Tim.

Batten and his losers are no match for Farage IMHO. Farage has been wise to distance himself. Despite Batten's best efforts I think UKIP will be seen as extemists & a spent force. It appears that the money is backing Nigel. The outcome will be interesting.
 
Yes indeed Mike and, in the same vein, check out Suella Braverman's equally shocking testimony to the European Scrutiny Committee: BREXIT: Brexit compromise became 'total surrender' - Former Brexit minister Suella Braverman
Tim.

And they are at it again. Different topic, same modus operandi, sneaking far reaching changes through on a Friday afternoon so as not to have any debate whatsoever.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...-of-probate-fee-registry-inheritance-tax-rate
 
Yes indeed Mike and, in the same vein, check out Suella Braverman's equally shocking testimony to the European Scrutiny Committee: BREXIT: Brexit compromise became 'total surrender' - Former Brexit minister Suella Braverman
Tim.
Yes, Ive seen that Tim. I think its arrived at that point now whereby these people are not bothered about there personal circumstances after march 29th as long as they get ether "the softest possible brexit", a "peoples vote" or "remain in".

These politicians understand that they are not alone due to the divide in the HoC and are throwing everything at it..What can the electorate do to them ? de-select them all ? wont happen.. Farrage has seen this now and is forming his brexit party, Its surely going to be an interesting 6 weeks.
 
Though in her case I feel it should be made compulsory, :love:

I see David Davis and others have confirmed what everyone thought at the time, That number 10 strangled their negotiations in order to steer towards a brino deal, Its shocking how a handful of politicians and civil servants have caused so much frustration to the process, They must feel they are virtually untouchable..


Is that why he remained so long in the position, blind to being undermined? If he was half a man with national interest, based on his convictions and beliefs why didn't he call it out sooner?

I thought one of you Brexiteers said he was politically savvy and maintained his position in the cabinet to resign when in a position to either make a bid for leadership or cause maximum damage to negotiations or TM?

Play the victim role and assume some more punishment beatings. Suits you sirs!


Carry on Brexiteeering. :devilish:
 
Though in her case I feel it should be made compulsory, :love:

I see David Davis and others have confirmed what everyone thought at the time, That number 10 strangled their negotiations in order to steer towards a brino deal, Its shocking how a handful of politicians and civil servants have caused so much frustration to the process, They must feel they are virtually untouchable..

Maybe, just maybe, it’s because “the process” was not as straightforward as it was advertised. David Davis, after all, sat on his hands for months and came up with nothing. Well, the EU who needed us more than we needed them were going to come to him pleading for a deal weren’t they? That went well.
 
Carry on chaps. No point watching the testimony, much easier to peddle the narrative that it's anyone other than Mays fault that things are going so badly.

Fortunately, we know the truth, we know who the derailers are and we know that in 48 days we are gone. This issue is far too important to be left to the likes of an incompetent PM and a bunch of jobsworths in the civil service.

The people will get the Brexit they voted for and the laughable part is that the EU is falling apart as each passing day goes by. Who in their right mind would have the UK tied up with that shambles.

And just to make sure that we do get a proper Brexit....Farage is back and readying himself for a battle royal should it be required. (y)
 
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that May has played a blinder. Just that she has had a weak hand to play as anybody else would had even though they might have won a few more tricks than she has. So we are left with a poor deal or no deal and since none but the most ardent favour a no deal I suspect that a bit of cosmetic trimming around the edges will sweeten the poor deal pill sufficiently for enough to swallow.

I’m sitting here in the sun surrounded by Europeans of many colours all of whom are bemused by our departure. Most have a lot of moans about a lot of the workings of the EU but they are still strongly in favour of the overall principles and the strength of the “European family” (as they put it) in today’s world.
 
I don’t think anyone is suggesting that May has played a blinder. Just that she has had a weak hand to play as anybody else would had even though they might have won a few more tricks than she has. So we are left with a poor deal or no deal and since none but the most ardent favour a no deal I suspect that a bit of cosmetic trimming around the edges will sweeten the poor deal pill sufficiently for enough to swallow.

I’m sitting here in the sun surrounded by Europeans of many colours all of whom are bemused by our departure. Most have a lot of moans about a lot of the workings of the EU but they are still strongly in favour of the overall principles and the strength of the “European family” (as they put it) in today’s world.

But isn't that because culturally we are different from the Europeans? History shows that we don't act and think like they do – and the current state of affairs reflects just that.
 
I see that Project Fear has wheeled out Tony Blair today. With his reputation for telling the truth why would anyone take notice of what he has to say?
 
I see that Project Fear has wheeled out Tony Blair today. With his reputation for telling the truth why would anyone take notice of what he has to say?

Globalists listen to him, maybe he is talking to them :unsure:
 
Maybe, just maybe, it’s because “the process” was not as straightforward as it was advertised. David Davis, after all, sat on his hands for months and came up with nothing. Well, the EU who needed us more than we needed them were going to come to him pleading for a deal weren’t they? That went well.

Maybe the its the process that she is trying to push through is not straightforward, They are financially struggling over there and are in decline, There is no doubt about that, And they know we have the British mentality to muster on if things are rocky after/if we leave without a deal and it scares them stiff.. They are playing the ultimate poker game and playing a good hand to protect their precious freedoms and i understand that, who wouldn't, ? furthermore, they are backed up by those over here who support the EU and those who are trying to thwart the leaving process. It looked like it was going to be straightforward in the beginning, A PM who was elected on a leave manifesto and said she would carry out that promise, David Davis who was a brexiteer doing the negotiating, what could go wrong ? Leave but remain in was always her plan.
 
Brexiteers are overjoyed and any bit of needling that goes against the EU they are all over it mouthing off we told you EU is braking up.

However, there is something really profoundly strange about what they are so joyous about.

Italy, been spending too much and wants to spend more.

France, yellow vests more money and easier life, less austerity. More public spending.

On both those fronts Brexiteers, the Tory party and daily trash press would be having a field day screaming blue murder and how Corbyn is such a mega threat to the UK with similar policies. Yet when it is across the pond and aimed at the EU, same bodies are in very much favour of left wing movements in Italy and France.


I find that strange as there is some major inconsistency in their belief system and how the three elements treated.

Similar to Greece when the push comes to shove and EU holds the line, those people will step in to line. If they don't that's also fine. Just remember we've been hear before.

People like Moggy may suggest Greece had a referendum and were made to do it again but we all know the story. EU accepted Greece referendum just simply said no to any more help without reforms. Banks were denied access to more funding and you all know the rest of the story.

Has nought to do with EU but peoples choices, realising they weren't really offered chocolate but something else that was brown and sticky but sugar coated with some politicians words. :devilish:
 
But isn't that because culturally we are different from the Europeans? History shows that we don't act and think like they do – and the current state of affairs reflects just that.

Maybe, but in general I feel much more culturally at home in western Europe than in USA (for example).
 
Iv'e just come across this. Sums up the situation. I feel were at that point now where anything remainers say will be disregarded by brexiteers and vice versa, But anyway...





There are now seven weeks to go until the UK is due to leave the EU, and things are getting messier and angrier by the day. Well, there’s a surprise.
Faced with Mrs May’s request from the British parliament to compromise on the Irish backstop, as a result of which it might then agree to a deal, the EU told the UK to go to hell.
Donald Tusk, the EU Council president, observed on Twitter: “I’ve been wondering what that special place in hell looks like, for those who promoted Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely.”
To which the EU’s Brexit co-ordinator Guy Verhofstadt added: “I doubt Lucifer would welcome them, as after what they did to Britain they would even manage to divide Hell.”
The European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker has said the backstop cannot be replaced; Martin Selmayr, chief of the EU civil service, said Mrs May’s request wasn’t even being considered.
Such arrogant and contemptuous bullying has enraged even some Remainers. Just who do they think they are, people are fuming. Well, this is what they are, and this is why the UK wants to leave the EU.
In accordance with their customary Mafia-style tactics, the Eurocrats believe they have made the UK an offer it cannot refuse. All that’s needed now is for Mrs May to wake up in Downing Street to find a dismembered leg in her bed shod in a leopard-print shoe.
This EU reaction was always entirely predictable. As Fraser Nelson says in today’s Telegraph, its leaders think they must demonstrate that leaving the EU entails unbearable agony. This is because they are all too aware that in several member states, more and more people are expressing a fervent desire to leave. To nip this in the bud, the EU cannot let the UK be seen to prosper from Brexit.
The inescapable implication of that, however, is that they know the UK will indeed prosper. Predictions by the Bank of England and other solidly Remainer institutions that a vote for Brexit would cause the economy to collapse have proved to date spectacularly wrong.
Now the Bank’s same forecasting geniuses have downgraded its growth forecast for 2019 from 1.7 per cent to 1.2 per cent. But although the Bank’s Governor, Mark Carney, repeatedly warns against a no-deal Brexit, he has acknowledged that the downgrade is due to a slowing global economy as well as Brexit uncertainty.
As he said: “The fog of Brexit is causing short-term volatility in the economic data and, more fundamentally, it’s creating a series of tensions.” And the Bank added: “The economic outlook will continue to depend significantly on the nature of EU withdrawal, in particular the new trading arrangements between the EU and the UK, whether the transition to them is abrupt or smooth, and how households, businesses and financial markets respond.”
Quite. The fact is that no-one knows what’s going to happen; and financial markets hate uncertainty above all else. But it stands to reason that, notwithstanding some unavoidable problems and shocks along the way, the world’s fifth largest economy will, when freed of its EU shackles, ultimately do well.
Only last month, Carney told the Commons Treasury Select Committee: “Financial stability risks around [the EU exit] process are greater on the continent than they are in the UK. There is a tremendous financial services capacity in Britain and even though there will be shortfalls at the point of leaving [depending on the exit arrangement], these are more likely to affect Europe”.
You bet. The EU is currently staring at its own increasing political and economic wreckage. The Eurozone has been given an economic downgrade. The German economy is poised at the edge of recession. In France, the self-styled heir to Napoleon and Jupiter, President Emmanuel Macron, has failed to quash the “yellow vests” uprising and is quarrelling with Italy and Germany. The upcoming EU elections may return a slew of eurosceptic commissioners and bring the agenda of “ever-closer union” to a juddering halt.
And Brexit could deliver in addition a possibly fatal wounding blow.
The Eurocrats’ strategy rests on their belief that the UK will be so frightened by leaving with no deal that at the last minute parliament will cave in and vote to support the deal the EU brokered with Mrs May.
Some believe that prospect has improved with the olive branch offered to Mrs May by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, in the form of a set of “compromise” conditions on the basis of which Labour would support her deal.
As has been widely observed, it’s hard to see how this could happen since he is sticking to Labour’s insistence that after Brexit there must be a customs union arrangement with the EU – which means not leaving EU control at all.
Some, though, think that enough “soft” Labour Brexiteers will want to accept this compromise, enabling Mrs May to isolate the true Brexiteers in parliament and thus get her deal through.
But that would mean Mrs May suddenly forgetting what she has understood all along in having made a customs union/single market her red lines. This is that Brexiteers know these options would clearly negate the referendum result; and then they would never vote Conservative again and the party might even break apart altogether.
As March 29 approaches, the British should have one thing in mind above all: that the EU are digging in like this because they are terrified of Brexit. And the reason for that is that if Britain leaves the EU, not through Mrs May’s Brexit-in-name-only-Remain-by-stealth deal but through a clear, undeniable, unequivocal departure, the EU knows this will accelerate its own disintegration while it watches the UK start to prosper.
 
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