Brexit and the Consequences

[Signalcalc]

You've said nothing about the words spoken or ideas and thoughts behind them but simply only attacked the bodies delivering their opinions.

You suggesting they are numpties participating in some power group manipulation of the masses?

When a bunch of virtue signalling celebs are promoting something, almost anything, you know it's probably not worth paying attention to. If it was ordinary people or qualified persons with anecdotal experience promoting the people's vote then I would expect some evidence to be presented as arguments.

I'm waiting.........

 

[barjon]

.........I'm waiting.........

So are we all . Hard evidence, good or bad, won’t arrive for years.

 

[Signalcalc]

So are we all . Hard evidence, good or bad, won’t arrive for years.

If we are talking economic speculation, then of course we don't have any evidence, neither side wins that argument and frankly, there is not much discussion to be had.

If we are talking evidence of the results of open border policies, Eurozone policies, political integration, ECJ rulings and all the other identifiable facts that have been introduced by the EU, then why aren't remain putting those arguments forward to be debated?

Maybe it's because they can't construct a case for remain based on what we already know because what we already know shows the awfulness of the EU!

Seriously, I would like to see a remain argument that shows what is actually good about the EU and that simultaneously matters to the citizens who live in it and have a say in it's membership.

From what I can see, every EU member that has had elections of some sort recently has voted more against EU policies than for EU policies.

Of course we all know why the remain campaign get's so much airtime - because of MSM, if it wasn't for MSM it would either be a non-campaign or a campaign that would be presented in the minority which is actually where it was and still is.

 

[barjon]

If we are talking economic speculation, then of course we don't have any evidence, neither side wins that argument and frankly, there is not much discussion to be had.

If we are talking evidence of the results of open border policies, Eurozone policies, political integration, ECJ rulings and all the other identifiable facts that have been introduced by the EU, then why aren't remain putting those arguments forward to be debated?

Maybe it's because they can't construct a case for remain based on what we already know because what we already know shows the awfulness of the EU!

Seriously, I would like to see a remain argument that shows what is actually good about the EU and that simultaneously matters to the citizens who live in it and have a say in it's membership.

From what I can see, every EU member that has had elections of some sort recently has voted more against EU policies than for EU policies.

Of course we all know why the remain campaign get's so much airtime - because of MSM, if it wasn't for MSM it would either be a non-campaign or a campaign that would be presented in the minority which is actually where it was and still is.

Once again it’s difficult to come with hard evidence. You may have an opinion that the EU is awful but an opinion is all it is. As for the legislation, rules, policies etc they’ve all been working and member states have been prospering. There aren’t such things that cannot be criticised, of course. It will be interesting to see what legislation etc we will dump when we are finally out. Not a lot is my guess.

 

[mike.]

I think on the "peoples vote march" 20th October, that all demonstrators should be issued with a plastic bin bag in order to collect litter as they walk around London, Just so its not a total waste of a day..I think that idea that has legs tbh..

 

[Atilla]

If we are talking economic speculation, then of course we don't have any evidence, neither side wins that argument and frankly, there is not much discussion to be had.

If we are talking evidence of the results of open border policies, Eurozone policies, political integration, ECJ rulings and all the other identifiable facts that have been introduced by the EU, then why aren't remain putting those arguments forward to be debated?

Maybe it's because they can't construct a case for remain based on what we already know because what we already know shows the awfulness of the EU!

Seriously, I would like to see a remain argument that shows what is actually good about the EU and that simultaneously matters to the citizens who live in it and have a say in it's membership.

From what I can see, every EU member that has had elections of some sort recently has voted more against EU policies than for EU policies.

Of course we all know why the remain campaign get's so much airtime - because of MSM, if it wasn't for MSM it would either be a non-campaign or a campaign that would be presented in the minority which is actually where it was and still is.

How is it that you are quite happy to accept Gove's dismissal of expert opinion and request no evidence of the hype based on hope and vision from some pretty unscrupulous politicians?

You are a class act.

You dismiss a wide array of people from many areas of life as celebrities, choosing to dismiss their business and local knowledge as bodies manipulated by some ultra power group to twist public opinion. On the other hand having dismissed experts and people of well to do interest, you prefer to see people like Margaret from Margate who votes for Brexit coz she'd like to see the place as it was in the 60s.


The mind really boggles with the Brexit argument and approach.


I may come across as opinionated bigot calling out numpties for what they are but you are not far behind just loads of words dressed up with no real conclusions or facts to support them.

 

[Signalcalc]

How is it that you are quite happy to accept Gove's dismissal of expert opinion and request no evidence of the hype based on hope and vision from some pretty unscrupulous politicians?

What am I supposed to have done? I haven't mentioned Gove, I'm sure you are losing your marbles old bean!

You dismiss a wide array of people from many areas of life as celebrities, choosing to dismiss their business and local knowledge as bodies manipulated by some ultra power group to twist public opinion. On the other hand having dismissed experts and people of well to do interest, you prefer to see people like Margaret from Margate who votes for Brexit coz she'd like to see the place as it was in the 60s.

You mean the celebs I was talking about, the celebs that all make a living from presenting or acting, not a very diverse group are they and the People's vote campaign sponsored by Soros, not conspiracy, fact?

As for Margaret from Margate, have you got another thread running somewhere and are typing with left and right hands simultaneously, I've no clue what you are on about!

The mind really boggles with the Brexit argument and approach.

remainers are easily confused aren't they, you are just proving my point.

I may come across as opinionated bigot

and a very confused one at that!!

 

[Signalcalc]

I think on the "peoples vote march" 20th October, that all demonstrators should be issued with a plastic bin bag in order to collect litter as they walk around London, Just so its not a total waste of a day..I think that idea that has legs tbh..

Careful, you'll be putting migrants out of a job.

 

[Signalcalc]

Once again it’s difficult to come with hard evidence. You may have an opinion that the EU is awful but an opinion is all it is. As for the legislation, rules, policies etc they’ve all been working and member states have been prospering. There aren’t such things that cannot be criticised, of course. It will be interesting to see what legislation etc we will dump when we are finally out. Not a lot is my guess.

Taking the open borders policy as an example of how the EU gets it wrong, the evidence is pretty stark, so stark that it has been difficult for the MSM to not report it, although they have been trying very hard when the authorities haven't managed to cover it up.

Sweden, Hungary, Germany, Italy, Poland, Visegrad and finally Brexit.....all rejecting open borders, thousands on the streets protesting against migrant crime waves, whether that is stabbings, rapes, child abuse.

Not necessarily the fault of the EU but closely related to open borders policy the UK is experiencing stabbing crime waves in London, Birmingham, Manchester, majority Pakistani muslim rape gangs raping 100,000's children across countless towns and cities too, all admitted by the home secretary, have you noticed? Merkel has stated it was a disaster and even Macron has now put restrictions on the numbers entering France (and is trying to deport some to Italy of all places)!

All facts laid bare (unless you don't watch or read any news reports whatsoever).

Would someone like to argue for a non-economic related reason for open borders?

 

[Atilla]

What am I supposed to have done? I haven't mentioned Gove, I'm sure you are losing your marbles old bean!

No you haven't I have. Point is when established and reputable bodies and institutions do give an opinion they are dismissed as experts who get it wrong. So if anyone, ever produced inaccurate forecast at all, subsequent other work is dismissed.

You mean the celebs I was talking about, the celebs that all make a living from presenting or acting, not a very diverse group are they and the People's vote campaign sponsored by Soros, not conspiracy, fact?

Celebs from various areas yes and some national figures. I rather listen to people who can think and string some sentences together than the drivel and tosh we hear from the public quoting, we've had the vote let's get on with it, brexit means brexit don't it.

As for Margaret from Margate, have you got another thread running somewhere and are typing with left and right hands simultaneously, I've no clue what you are on about!

Ok that was perhaps Margaret from Clacton-on-Sea who explained her reasons for voting for Brexit on Radio 4 and I haven't been able to shake that one off. I guess it is just as a valid reason as our cowboy builders wanting to destroy the competition from EU who do a superior job at a better price, cleaning after themselves taking half as long.


remainers are easily confused aren't they, you are just proving my point.


That's what old age does to you


and a very confused one at that!!

Nope not confused just cutting the chase getting to the point. I take it you are not a fan of the illuminate then?

 

[barjon]

Taking the open borders policy as an example of how the EU gets it wrong, the evidence is pretty stark, so stark that it has been difficult for the MSM to not report it, although they have been trying very hard when the authorities haven't managed to cover it up.

Sweden, Hungary, Germany, Italy, Poland, Visegrad and finally Brexit.....all rejecting open borders, thousands on the streets protesting against migrant crime waves, whether that is stabbings, rapes, child abuse.

Not necessarily the fault of the EU but closely related to open borders policy the UK is experiencing stabbing crime waves in London, Birmingham, Manchester, majority Pakistani muslim rape gangs raping 100,000's children across countless towns and cities too, all admitted by the home secretary, have you noticed? Merkel has stated it was a disaster and even Macron has now put restrictions on the numbers entering France (and is trying to deport some to Italy of all places)!

All facts laid bare (unless you don't watch or read any news reports whatsoever).

Would someone like to argue for a non-economic related reason for open borders?

There is no “open borders” policy so far as I am aware, aside from free movement of EU citizens. At least you have the grace to admit that the horrendous things you mention are “not necessarily the fault of the EU”. Not necessarily? Blimey, not in any way, shape or form down to the EU is the reality. So why adduce such horrors? If you think otherwise then I think you are going to be wildly disappointed with Brexit.

 

[counter_violent]

No open borders.

There is no “open borders” policy so far as I am aware, aside from free movement of EU citizens. At least you have the grace to admit that the horrendous things you mention are “not necessarily the fault of the EU”. Not necessarily? Blimey, not in any way, shape or form down to the EU is the reality. So why adduce such horrors? If you think otherwise then I think you are going to be wildly disappointed with Brexit.

A non controlled border is by definition an open border and we can be absolutely certain that the EU is directly responsible. It's not even up for debate when the EU's policy of "sharing out the migrants" has been met by resistance from a growing number of member countries.

You can pretend that all is well in the EU, but that is all it is, a great big pretense.

Far from integrating into any host country, migrants simply flock together into their respective ghettos which then turn into no go zones once critical mass is reached.

EU ghetto's and no go zones.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/eu...ess-ghettos-that-breed-and-harbour-terrorists

 

[Signalcalc]

There is no “open borders” policy so far as I am aware, aside from free movement of EU citizens. At least you have the grace to admit that the horrendous things you mention are “not necessarily the fault of the EU”. Not necessarily? Blimey, not in any way, shape or form down to the EU is the reality. So why adduce such horrors? If you think otherwise then I think you are going to be wildly disappointed with Brexit.

OK, I admit I got a little carried away with apportioning some blame to the EU for UK rape gangs, the particular strand of political correctness that enabled it to continue in the UK is largely confined to UK police and establishment/local authorities.

In the light of recent events in Europe though, it would appear that a similar phenomena is spreading, I hope that the EU manages to get over it's political correctness to stop the situation from worsening.

 

[Signalcalc]

A non controlled border is by definition an open border and we can be absolutely certain that the EU is directly responsible. It's not even up for debate when the EU's policy of "sharing out the migrants" has been met by resistance from a growing number of member countries.

You can pretend that all is well in the EU, but that is all it is, a great big pretense.

Far from integrating into any host country, migrants simply flock together into their respective ghettos which then turn into no go zones once critical mass is reached.

EU ghetto's and no go zones.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/eu...ess-ghettos-that-breed-and-harbour-terrorists

These are examples of de facto Sharia, the rule of law of the host country cannot be applied because the host authorities have enabled it as a result of political correctness.

Once the Islamic population of an area has grown to a certain percentage then the authorities will have no chance of enforcing anything in those areas. Given time, there will be vigilante Sharia police to protect their own communities from other neighbouring Islamic factions and host nation interference, they will be warring with each other on European soil and there won't be a thing the host countries will be able to do about it.

Those that don't see a problem developing don't have any insights into the workings of political Islam. Just as Christians had missionaries to convert the local populace at one time and has now largely stopped, Islam has continued and has been slowly implementing itself in the Westernised parts of the globe for some time now.

It's looking most likely that Europe will be the first major region to change, the question is, which country will be the first to go and how quickly will it happen?

 

[counter_violent]

Cultural Enrichment

These are examples of de facto Sharia, the rule of law of the host country cannot be applied because the host authorities have enabled it as a result of political correctness.

Once the Islamic population of an area has grown to a certain percentage then the authorities will have no chance of enforcing anything in those areas. Given time, there will be vigilante Sharia police to protect their own communities from other neighbouring Islamic factions and host nation interference, they will be warring with each other on European soil and there won't be a thing the host countries will be able to do about it.

Those that don't see a problem developing don't have any insights into the workings of political Islam. Just as Christians had missionaries to convert the local populace at one time and has now largely stopped, Islam has continued and has been slowly implementing itself in the Westernised parts of the globe for some time now.

It's looking most likely that Europe will be the first major region to change, the question is, which country will be the first to go and how quickly will it happen?

The unfathomable puzzle is why our respective Govt's allow all this to happen and have the temerity to tell us that we are intolerant.

Meanwhile, lets have another look at "cultural enrichment" in action.

 

[barjon]

.......A non controlled border is by definition an open border ......]

Yes that’s absolutely correct, but where did you get it into your head that the EU borders are non-controlled? Have you never travelled and needed to be showing your passport to confirm your UK (and hence EU) citizenship and watched the queues of non-EU citizens lined up for check? And what of the control (admittedly mostly post entry) over the illegals. The EU may have gone a bit ott with the acceptance of migrants for humanitarian reasons but it’s pretty cold hearted to lock the doors, even if that were possible.

 

[Signalcalc]

The unfathomable puzzle is why our respective Govt's allow all this to happen and have the temerity to tell us that we are intolerant.

Tolerance of the intolerant is certainly a puzzle.

The motivation has to be money or blackmail - most Western govts are in the pockets of, or certainly rely on, Saudi Arabian oil and arms sales and Saudi provides the largest amount of funds for the spread of Wahhabism through supporting imams and the building of mosques on a global scale.

If you've not seen it already, here's a good documentary on the West's relationship with Saudi oil and the subsequent 'allowing' of the spread of Wahhabism.

And a much shorter example of a Sharia no-go this time in OZ

 

[Signalcalc]

The EU may have gone a bit ott with the acceptance of migrants for humanitarian reasons but it’s pretty cold hearted to lock the doors, even if that were possible.

Unfortunately the EU did not understand the implications of not checking who is a genuine refugee and who is an economic/idealogical migrant. The EU themselves have admitted as much.

Uncontrolled migration remains the main problem and when you have put nothing in place to deal with a large influx of people with a totally different belief system to that of the Western world, who only want to maintain their belief system and even dominate the areas that they are grouped into, then it's no wonder that the local populace, who were previously happy living a Western existence become agitated to the point of protesting. Especially when they experience a rising rate of violent crimes as a result.

The authorities then go on to treat the original local populace with cold hearts by persecuting them for complaining.

Treating secondary issues rather than the primary issues is pure political correctness and cowardice, protection of a countries citizens is the first priority of all governments, anything less is treason.

It's no wonder European governments are changing.

 

[counter_violent]

Yes that’s absolutely correct, but where did you get it into your head that the EU borders are non-controlled? Have you never travelled and needed to be showing your passport to confirm your UK (and hence EU) citizenship and watched the queues of non-EU citizens lined up for check? And what of the control (admittedly mostly post entry) over the illegals. The EU may have gone a bit ott with the acceptance of migrants for humanitarian reasons but it’s pretty cold hearted to lock the doors, even if that were possible.

I could be wrong (just kidding) but i'm sure there is a difference between me, travelling by conventional means and those who are being trafficked daily and either dumped into Europe or picked up by NGO's and processed / registered in order that they can be quickly dispatched onwards to their country of choice.

BTW, just to be clear, we are not talking about genuine refugees here, we are talking about hoards of young men who's only aim is to get to Europe and then do whatever it takes to remain there.

I've already covered the ghetto problem which comes after.

And you can't see a problem here

 

[counter_violent]

Tolerance of the intolerant is certainly a puzzle.

The motivation has to be money or blackmail - most Western govts are in the pockets of, or certainly rely on, Saudi Arabian oil and arms sales and Saudi provides the largest amount of funds for the spread of Wahhabism through supporting imams and the building of mosques on a global scale.

If you've not seen it already, here's a good documentary on the West's relationship with Saudi oil and the subsequent 'allowing' of the spread of Wahhabism.

And a much shorter example of a Sharia no-go this time in OZ

And on the subject of Saudi Arabia, there is the small matter of the missing journalist who seems to have vanished inside a Govt building.