Brexit and the Consequences

We've had a 0.4 increase in PMI in the last month which was the highest in 6 monhs. So PMI is currently at 53.6.

The point you are missing is it was 55.8 in May this year.

Are you being obtuse or simply don't understand the fall in the last six months from 55.0 to 53.6 is not a good indicator of doing well.


Trump would be proud of your attempt to celebrate persistence at ignorance.

What a load of nonsense!

Earlier this year the $ sold off on rate hikes and it had nothing to do with the economy suffering. At the time all the growth indicators were ticking up with record unemployment. The central banks have a mandate that includes price stability, maximum employment, and moderate rates. With inflation expectations being subdued the central bank sentiment was a dovish hike with uncertainty around subsequent hikes.

i am mentioning this because it shows that rates alone don't guarantee price appreciation. You telling me that the selloff was due to brexit concerns is right up there with the lies project fear spreads on a daily basis. I am attaching an image i clipped from ransquawk which can be corroborated with other sources. The real reason the pound sold off was a miss on vote spread and a removal of forward guidance reference to rates needing to rise faster than the market expects.

The only reference by Carney to brexit was that policy may change depending on the form of resolution and by this time the selloff was well underway. I expect you to try and twist this around and say the underlying cause is brexit. Please refer to the $ selloff examples to put this ignorant assumption to rest.

Moving onto your PMI reference being higher in May. This is more Ignorant cherry picking project fear duct tape. PMI was lower than it is now in previous years and had been steadily degrading since 2014. Instead of looking at the data and seeing well here we are in the middle of brexit and the data prints the best number in 6 months; you refer to it being higher in May and twist it around to sound negative. All while dismissing the fact that it has been lower in previous years prior to brexit. More evidence supporting me calling you ignorant is simply this: anything above 50 on that indicator represents expansion. Expansion is a far cry from your rhetoric of everything falling apart.

You'd fit in well in labour's shadow cabinet. You could sit in between the racist that cant count, the sexist homophobic , the gropers, and the socialist.
 

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What a load of nonsense!

Earlier this year the $ sold off on rate hikes and it had nothing to do with the economy suffering. At the time all the growth indicators were ticking up with record unemployment. The central banks have a mandate that includes price stability, maximum employment, and moderate rates. With inflation expectations being subdued the central bank sentiment was a dovish hike with uncertainty around subsequent hikes.

i am mentioning this because it shows that rates alone don't guarantee price appreciation. You telling me that the selloff was due to brexit concerns is right up there with the lies project fear spreads on a daily basis. I am attaching an image i clipped from ransquawk which can be corroborated with other sources. The real reason the pound sold off was a miss on vote spread and a removal of forward guidance reference to rates needing to rise faster than the market expects.

The only reference by Carney to brexit was that policy may change depending on the form of resolution and by this time the selloff was well underway. I expect you to try and twist this around and say the underlying cause is brexit. Please refer to the $ selloff examples to put this ignorant assumption to rest.

Moving onto your PMI reference being higher in May. This is more Ignorant cherry picking project fear duct tape. PMI was lower than it is now in previous years and had been steadily degrading since 2014. Instead of looking at the data and seeing well here we are in the middle of brexit and the data prints the best number in 6 months; you refer to it being higher in May and twist it around to sound negative. All while dismissing the fact that it has been lower in previous years prior to brexit. More evidence supporting me calling you ignorant is simply this: anything above 50 on that indicator represents expansion. Expansion is a far cry from your rhetoric of everything falling apart.

You'd fit in well in labour's shadow cabinet. You could sit in between the racist that cant count, the sexist homophobic , the gropers, and the socialist.


Matey, I was simply putting your one month fastest rise in PMI in 6 months into context with where the PMI was six months ago. That's all. Same visa-v with the pound and rate hike. Not twisting at all. On the contrary I felt I was putting your spin into context about the FASTEST RISE IN 6 MONTHS!!! wow! yay! Let's be jolly then :clap::clap::clap:

Have a g8 w/e. Best evarr (y)
 
With all this Catalan business going on, I've got out of touch. How are the Brexit talks doing? Must be getting some agreements, surely?
 
With all this Catalan business going on, I've got out of touch. How are the Brexit talks doing? Must be getting some agreements, surely?

You might well wonder! Having thoroughly disgraced themselves some years ago with the expenses scandal, the MPs are now reminding us that they are unable to conduct themselves in any kind of decent and respectable fashion (as if we didn't know that already) with the ongoing "Sex Pest" revelations where apparently, a cabinet minister can be sacked/resigned for putting his hand on a lady journalist's knee some 15 years ago and about which she says it wasn't a problem because she would have punched him if he hadn't stopped! Numerous allegations about many MPs are now coming out of the woodwork.

Meanwhile, the Bank of England messes around with interest rates and makes further predictions that we all know probably won't come true. And returning Jihadis are being given the red carpet/velvet glove treatment in case we upset them and they do something terrible. MP Rory Stewart had the right idea – deal with them out there before they come back – but all the do-gooders think that's not a good idea and we should let them come back here and do their stuff again having not got it right the first time.

You ask about Brexit – well the remainers still haven't given up (unelected Clegg and his entourage have been off to see Juncker though elected people like Farage can't get an interview) but in the main it seems to have gone right out of the news headlines. The average punter seems to get bored very quickly and a decent sex scandal at Westminster brightens up his life.

The latest most important off-topic distraction appears to have been the accidental pre-broadcast revelation of the winner of "Bake-Off" TV cooking contest.

Draw your own conclusions ..................
 
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With all this Catalan business going on, I've got out of touch. How are the Brexit talks doing? Must be getting some agreements, surely?
Hi Split',
Yeah, smc has summed up the situation perfectly. The shenanigans in Parliament highlight why I won't now be entering into politics. Namely, back in the day, when I was a young man and viewed women in the way that most heterosexual men at the time viewed women - I did rather more than just put my hand on a women's knee. Shoulders and waists were also touched frequently, often accompanied by a (genuinely felt) compliment about their hair or dress etc. I know now that such behavior is completely unacceptable and those poor women are doubtless in long term therapy suffering from PTSD. My apologies to all those affected (there will be lots).
Tim.
 
Hi Split',
Yeah, smc has summed up the situation perfectly. The shenanigans in Parliament highlight why I won't now be entering into politics. Namely, back in the day, when I was a young man and viewed women in the way that most heterosexual men at the time viewed women - I did rather more than just put my hand on a women's knee. Shoulders and waists were also touched frequently, often accompanied by a (genuinely felt) compliment about their hair or dress etc. I know now that such behavior is completely unacceptable and those poor women are doubtless in long term therapy suffering from PTSD. My apologies to all those affected (there will be lots).
Tim.

Yes, Mrs SMC says that the time for a lady to start worrying is when normal blokes don't/stop doing the things that Timsk has just described! Apparently, the well aimed stiletto heel or the "Hartley-Brewer punch" suffices on most occasions should things start to get out of hand. :)
 
There will come a time where the courtship process is done over social media, It can then be scrutinized for any possible inappropriate misconduct, The male then will ether bag himself a possible wife or end up on the sex offenders register.
 
Meanwhile, volatility is dead and Goldmans are pulling out of the options markets.

Every time volatility dies, everything collapses and we are due, cos 2017 ends in 7. 10yr cycle.
Will it be down to Brexit? Yeah probably.....everything else seems to be :LOL:

1987 - a spectacular crash.
1997 - the Asian crisis.
2007 - the subprime crisis.
2017 - ?


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...ty-options-market-making-volatility-collapses
 
Meanwhile, volatility is dead and Goldmans are pulling out of the options markets.

Every time volatility dies, everything collapses and we are due, cos 2017 ends in 7. 10yr cycle.
Will it be down to Brexit? Yeah probably.....everything else seems to be :LOL:

1987 - a spectacular crash.
1997 - the Asian crisis.
2007 - the subprime crisis.
2017 - ?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...ty-options-market-making-volatility-collapses

2017-18: How about any/most/all of these?

  1. Collapse of the May government after it's discovered that party funds had been unknowingly invested in a chain of brothels.
  2. Corbyn becomes PM subsequently deposed by McDonnell who trashes what's left of the UK economy. Diane Abbott becomes Head of BBC.
  3. UK Communist government negotiates a nominal Brexit with enhanced contributions for less benefits.
  4. EU crumbles further – Brussels imprisons rebellious political Spaniards (and Farage?) and renames itself the EU Democratic Republic.
  5. Trump makes pre-emptive strike against North Korea and finds that Kim's WMDs were all CGI.
  6. Jihadists continue their revenge for the Crusades.
  7. Blair comes out of retirement as the Messiah with Uncle Vince as his 2 i/c.
  8. CV & Attilla both agree that the situation looks pretty grim. :cheers:
 
2017-18: How about any/most/all of these?

  1. Collapse of the May government after it's discovered that party funds had been unknowingly invested in a chain of brothels.
  2. Corbyn becomes PM subsequently deposed by McDonnell who trashes what's left of the UK economy. Diane Abbott becomes Head of BBC.
  3. UK Communist government negotiates a nominal Brexit with enhanced contributions for less benefits.
  4. EU crumbles further – Brussels imprisons rebellious political Spaniards (and Farage?) and renames itself the EU Democratic Republic.
  5. Trump makes pre-emptive strike against North Korea and finds that Kim's WMDs were all CGI.
  6. Jihadists continue their revenge for the Crusades.
  7. Blair comes out of retirement as the Messiah with Uncle Vince as his 2 i/c.
  8. CV & Attilla both agree that the situation looks pretty grim. :cheers:


:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

Indeed you have a very creative mind complimented by your good taste in art.

Made my day thank you SUPERmini (y)
 
. . . [*]CV & Attilla both agree that the situation looks pretty grim. :cheers:
[/LIST]
. . . There's an argument for the Mods to close the thread on this point. Not least because if everything else goes titz up (quite likely) - at least there's one positive to emerge from all this upon which we - and the thread's two main protagonists - can all agree!
:LOL:
 
. . . There's an argument for the Mods to close the thread on this point. Not least because if everything else goes titz up (quite likely) - at least there's one positive to emerge from all this upon which we - and the thread's two main protagonists - can all agree!
:LOL:

Steady teddy!!!

Not so fast.

Who said anything about agreeing??? :whistling


Listened to Carney on Preston show this morning. I think he made it quite clear the impact of Brexit uncertainty and deferred investments - in the face of growth in World economy and faster than anticipated growth in EU is causing UK to lag behind approx 20%+.

Labour MP also pointed out there is no cause for rise in rates as people are struggling to get by with falling disposable incomes as wages aren't rising but stalling. Productivity was also mentioned. No surprises there? She failed to understand the reason is to prop up the pound to avert inflation import but sadly market sentiment is what it is. Things will get much worse before it gets better. If?

Let's not listen to him (Carney) what does he know? Let's listen to Farage a politician telling the independent BoE to shut up and not interfere in Brexit. Blabber mouth has lost all reason and integrity.

Brexiters have gotten so ahead of them selves and soon will be walking on water as they know everything about what is right and what is not. What is news and how it should be interpreted. Who the real experts are and who are the treacherous remoaners.


So don't know about agreeing but everything going titzee up is indeed what is in store for us unless Parliament stops the madness. We live in hope. (y)
 
Carney needs a new job. His constant remoaner stance is way outside his job remit.
Might be time for another petition!
 
Liar liar pants on fire.


Households face increases of up to £930 in their annual shopping bills if Britain walks away from Brexit talks without a trade deal, according to new research which reveals a disproportionate impact on poorer families and the unemployed.
Meat, vegetables, dairy products, clothing and footwear would be subject to the largest consumer price rises under a “no-deal” scenario, according to a study published in the authoritative National Institute Economic Review, adding to inflationary pressures that have already forced the first interest rate rise in a decade this week.
Stalled negotiations resume next week in Brussels, but the government is also about to publish a trade bill which would result in Britain being required to apply swingeing new tariffs on European imports if it falls back on World Trade Organisation rules.
Since WTO tariffs are highest for fresh food – reaching 45% for dairy products and 37% for meat – and much of this is currently imported from Europe, the team of economists predict an inflationary surge that could match that already inflicted by the falling pound.
This would impact most on those least able to afford it, as poorer households typically spend a much higher proportion of their income on food and other essentials. For the 2m worst-affected households, the study predicts their weekly expenditure will rise by 2-4.7%, equivalent to £400-930 extra a year.

“The overall increase in price in the affected goods is estimated to be 2.7% and this translates into an increase in the overall cost of living of 0.8-1.1% for a typical family, with the unemployed and families, those with children and pensioners hit hardest,” conclude the economists from the University of Sussex and Resolution Foundation.
“This may seem a small number but, in a country in which the real incomes of ordinary families have been stagnant for several years, a loss of this order would have a significant effect on welfare.”
Nonetheless, the Brexit secretary, David Davis, warned MPs this week that the government still needed to seriously consider pursuing the no-deal option in the face of alleged EU intransigence over exit negotiations.
A government spokesman said: “While it is the duty of a responsible government to plan for all scenarios, we are clear that a deep and special partnership with the EU is the most likely outcome.
“We are confident of securing a deal which is in the interests of both the UK as a whole and our European partners.”
In the long run, Brexit enthusiasts argue that Britain could offset the rising cost of European imports by growing more food at home and striking new trade deals with countries such as the US, Australia and New Zealand.
Chris Grayling, the transport secretary, predicted last month: “It would mean that … supermarkets bought more at home, that British farmers produced more, that they bought more from around the world and it would damage French producers and continental producers.”
But the researchers, who modelled the impact of import substitution, argue there is a limit to how much can be grown in Britain due to land and labour shortages. International trade deals may take many years to complete and offer limited replacement sources for fresh produce in particular.
“[This] is a very conservative estimate,” said the report. “We deal only with goods, not the over 60% of expenditure on services; we ignore increases in UK costs of production; we ignore the probable increase in other suppliers’ prices as EU suppliers suffer a decline in competitiveness; and we ignore the inevitable increase in non-tariff frictions in UK–EU trade.”
Under WTO rules, there is limited room for manoeuvre for any government seeking to mitigate the impact.
The UK has decided to adopt the existing EU tariff schedule agreed at the WTO in order to simplify and speed up its ability to continue trade with the rest of the world after Brexit.
But any attempt just to ignore tariffs applied on EU imports would have to matched by the same offer to all other WTO members under rules known as Most Favoured Nation. This could risk a sudden surge of super cheap imports that could devastate British farmers and remove a vital bargaining chip in future trade talks.
The economists who wrote the report “Will Brexit raise the cost of living?” said one of the few silver linings would be that the bulk of the extra customs duties from WTO tariffs would be collected by the UK government.
“This means the overall economic welfare effects will be less than the number we have calculated but, in the absence of the government redistributing that money, it will just be extra money into the government coffers,” said Prof Alan Winters, one of the report’s authors. “Brexit clearly also has public finance consequences, meaning the tax take would almost certainly come down and there would be claims for increased expenditure elsewhere.”
The Bank of England warned this week that “the decision to leave the European Union is having a noticeable impact on the economic outlook … uncertainties associated with Brexit are weighing on domestic activity, which has slowed even as global growth has risen significantly”.
Next week, the government is expected to preview its planned new trade legislation envisaged as part of Brexit preparations. Officials say they will set out the legislation needed to transition existing EU trade deals into the UK and introduce other measures such as setting up a trade remedies body to handle trade disputes.
But in its white paper announcing the legislation, the government confirmed its plan to copy existing WTO tariff schedules.
“In order to minimise disruption to trade, the government has announced it will, as far as possible, replicate its existing commitments as set out in the EU’s schedules of commitments and submit these for certification in the WTO ahead of leaving the EU,” it wrote.
 
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They said the same about us joining the euro

no, you're screwed because the euro doesn't need Britain
Britain pretends to not need the euro
whether this is travel/customs/education/financial information sharing etc
There are no solutions and you can't buy time
 
no, you're screwed because the euro doesn't need Britain
Britain pretends to not need the euro
whether this is travel/customs/education/financial information sharing etc
There are no solutions and you can't buy time

Firstly the euro is a currency and of course it doesn't need a country. Assuming you are referring to the EU and not the Euro, you are in fact wrong

Exports from EU nations to the UK

Germany, 8.4% of exports are to the UK (only dwarfed by their 9% exports to USA)

France, 7.1%

Italy, 5.5%

Spain, 7.7%

Netherlands, 9.2%

Poland, 6.6%

Portugal, 7.2%

Ireland, 13%

Total value of exports to the UK = approx 320bln

In fact the aggregate of all the countries makes the UK the largest export market with approximately 15% of all exports. We are also Europe's investment bank. There are 359,953 passports in use for financial services. Inbound from the EU to the UK is 23,532 in use while outbound is 336,421. The UK are central to the EU's financing requirements. Nowhere in the EU does the infrastructure exist for this to be simply shifted.

Further to this point, juncker recently stated that English is fast becoming irrelevant in the EU. It has been proven that countries with better English have better economies. Look at the EF English Proficiency Index and you will see a correlation between the rise of English proficiency and per capita income.

In summary, the EU needs the UK as much as the UK needs the EU (in some cases more such as the EU needing UK's financial services). Anyone who thinks the UK doesn't need the EU as a trading partner is deluded and trading between the 2 isn't going to stop post brexit (even if the remainers cast their opinions with this theme). The UK exports more to the rest of the world than it does the EU and this number is growing. We already have ties to other nations and with future trade deals even more so. Just yesterday Trump said he has no concern over the UK doing a free trade deal with the US and that is a market in equal size to the EU. US commerce secretary a few days ago said he is optimistic that the UK will sign a free trade deal with the US. He also said there had already been a "joint scoping exercise" in Washington in July on a free trade agreement between America and Britain" and that another similar meeting will be held in London next week.

Sounds to me like you have been toking on one of Junckers cigars.
 
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Firstly the euro is a currency and of course it doesn't need a country. Assuming you are referring to the EU and not the Euro, you are in fact wrong

Exports from EU nations to the UK

Germany, 8.4% of exports are to the UK (only dwarfed by their 9% exports to USA)

France, 7.1%

Italy, 5.5%

Spain, 7.7%

Netherlands, 9.2%

Poland, 6.6%

Portugal, 7.2%

Ireland, 13%

Total value of exports to the UK = approx 320bln

In fact the aggregate of all the countries makes the UK the largest export market with approximately 15% of all exports. We are also Europe's investment bank. There are 359,953 passports in use for financial services. Inbound from the EU to the UK is 23,532 in use while outbound is 336,421. The UK are central to the EU's financing requirements. Nowhere in the EU does the infrastructure exist for this to be simply shifted.

Further to this point, juncker recently stated that English is fast becoming irrelevant in the EU. It has been proven that countries with better English have better economies. Look at the EF English Proficiency Index and you will see a correlation between the rise of English proficiency and per capita income.

In summary, the EU needs the UK as much as the UK needs the EU (in some cases more such as the EU needing UK's financial services). Anyone who thinks the UK doesn't need the EU as a trading partner is deluded and trading between the 2 isn't going to stop post brexit (even if the remainers cast their opinions with this theme). The UK exports more to the rest of the world than it does the EU and this number is growing. We already have ties to other nations and with future trade deals even more so. Just yesterday Trump said he has no concern over the UK doing a free trade deal with the US and that is a market in equal size to the EU. US commerce secretary a few days ago said he is optimistic that the UK will sign a free trade deal with the US. He also said there had already been a "joint scoping exercise" in Washington in July on a free trade agreement between America and Britain" and that another similar meeting will be held in London next week.

Sounds to me like you have been toking on one of Junckers cigars.

I think that you right, FXX. The fact is that we all need each other and it will become more so in coming decades. The Brexiters want to govern from London and the Remainers want the status quo. That's all it is and it will never change.

Cataluña is the same---Indepentistas and those who do not want change. There is nothing else the matter between the two sides.

I don't think that there is much point in arguing the toss any more and most of us want to get it over and done with.

About the Catalan question, I would like to make a couple of points because there is a lot of foreign coverage ,just now.

The Independistas called a referendum and they said that 2 million voted and that 90% voted yes. Everyone else is expected to believe that? Puigdemont made us independent on that result?

I am , being 85, an observer here--nothing else. I want what Catalans want and I want them to have the best. I don't think that this is going to work out well because Madrid, also, has not played fair with the Catalans for decades, creating a lot of resentment, no matter which side wins this election.
 
I think that you right, FXX. The fact is that we all need each other and it will become more so in coming decades. The Brexiters want to govern from London and the Remainers want the status quo. That's all it is and it will never change.

Cataluña is the same---Indepentistas and those who do not want change. There is nothing else the matter between the two sides.

I don't think that there is much point in arguing the toss any more and most of us want to get it over and done with.

About the Catalan question, I would like to make a couple of points because there is a lot of foreign coverage ,just now.

The Independistas called a referendum and they said that 2 million voted and that 90% voted yes. Everyone else is expected to believe that? Puigdemont made us independent on that result?

I am , being 85, an observer here--nothing else. I want what Catalans want and I want them to have the best. I don't think that this is going to work out well because Madrid, also, has not played fair with the Catalans for decades, creating a lot of resentment, no matter which side wins this election.

Split – your comments on wanting a sensible outcome for Catalonia (and UK/EEC) are right. Good outcomes to the benefit of all can be achieved if/when the will occurs.

The worrying thing about the Spanish situation is the insidious attack on democracy whereby people are being prosecuted/arrested/imprisoned on political issues and the use of gratuitous violence by the authorities. That is a dangerous road to go down and wasn't that one of the things that the EEC was designed to avoid? And it is also a black mark against any decent democratic society. The vibes emanating from Brussels in this respect are not good.
 
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