Brexit and the Consequences

[sminicooper]

A 52% win from 37% of the electorate is a poor way to run a democracy.

So what do you do with those who don't want to vote? March'em down to the polling booths at gunpoint? Have a society where the electorate are so scared, that there is 100% turnout (and they will vote the right way!) – North Korea for instance? It's important that people have the right not to vote because that in itself says a lot about the people who put themselves up for power.

52% vs 37% percent is not "a poor way to run a democracy" in fact it demonstrates that democracy rules. However, a low turnout is always disappointing and the only way I can think of sensibly improving it is to provide better candidates.

It reminds me of how a quorum of about 12 members, probably, even less, could bring a whole garage out on strike and did, many times. Some garages,-- I'm talking about the old LPTB, where my father was a driver--were hotbeds for strike action.

There was nothing democratic about the London Busmen's union in the 1950/60s – indeed they were controlled by a minority of extremely active militants who abused democracy. But a lot of the minority who didn't vote against them were intimidated and of course didn't mind accepting any advantages that the union gained for them. They were the ones who allowed democracy to be subverted. I don't see how you can compare that to the EU referendum.

If a minority group gets control, watch it!

Sure, a very sensible warning. But we have a democratically elected majority government. The people who are flirting with danger are those who cannot be bothered to get off their ar$e and use their vote which so many people went to so much trouble in the past to obtain for them.

 

[Splitlink]

You mention North Korea where, as you say, people are obliged to vote one way--or else. But we all know that that is not the case in the UK. If people cannot be bothered to get off their arsses to vote, how can they be expected to get politicians to get off theirs? Abstention as a protest against their leaders has been done to death, as an argument, I'm afreid. Can't be bothered is more likely to be the cause.

There's an old saying "Use it or lose it". It applies to lots of things, includinf the right to vote.

Unfortunately, the busmen's union, UTC, etc are good examples. because those who did not strike were blacked and their mates would not work with them. Union members gave their votes to the union, who voted for them in a very democratic way, so that there was no confusion.

I'm not a true democrat, I'm afraid. I've seen too many negative examples.

 

[sminicooper]

You mention North Korea where, as you say, people are obliged to vote one way--or else. But we all know that that is not the case in the UK. If people cannot be bothered to get off their arsses to vote, how can they be expected to get politicians to get off theirs? Abstention as a protest against their leaders has been done to death, as an argument, I'm afreid. Can't be bothered is more likely to be the cause.

There's an old saying "Use it or lose it". It applies to lots of things, includinf the right to vote.

Unfortunately, the busmen's union, UTC, etc are good examples. because those who did not strike were blacked and their mates would not work with them. Union members gave their votes to the union, who voted for them in a very democratic way, so that there was no confusion.

I'm not a true democrat, I'm afraid. I've seen too many negative examples.

Interesting replies Split - I empathise and see where you're coming from. But if not a "true democrat" then how do you class yourself? I've long sought something better than democracy but I'm still looking.

 

[Atilla]

This has been mentioned before but ignored.

Referendum's are usually used where constitutional changes are considered.

Where they are used often 2/3 to 1/3 or a higher acceptance margin than 50.1% is set.

When the Brexit referendum was set what the outcome would look like wasn't clearly outlined.

Both sides of the political devide went to town setting out their vision with lies and deceits. Will sort out the agreement later once we get control. Look how that's going to work out and what it'll cost???

Some importer in Dartford said he regretted voting for Brexit as he did not envisage WTO trading rules just simply control of migration and taking back control. His now thinking he'll need to hire more staff, need more space which will raise his costs, and delay delivery, impact his profits. Anybody who listens to R4 in the mornings may have heard him.



Some people (Brexiters) 'still' think the referendum wasn't a guide but was in fact law. Mind boggles.

TM plans to accept all passed EU laws into Parliamentary law whilst having told us how those nasty people always voted against us.

FFS here's your chance. Re-appeal all the laws we don't want, didn't want that was forced on us through so called undemocratice ways.

She says one thing and does another. Silly, daft or just deceitful politician. You judge.

So much BS, difficult to know which end to wipe. :whistling

 

[counter_violent]

Remoaners still moaning I see. 10/10 for tenacity, but what a load of wasted effort for zero reward

 

[Atilla]

Remoaners still moaning I see. 10/10 for tenacity, but what a load of wasted effort for zero reward

You've achieved zilch and delivered nothing but risk, uncertainty and cost.

Wasted effort indeed. We'll see where your Leadsom, Gove and May end up in another couple of years time. Boris is a remainer and he'll be another Gove for being a turncoat.

Keep dreaming.

 

[counter_violent]

You've achieved zilch and delivered nothing but risk, uncertainty and cost.

Wasted effort indeed. We'll see where your Leadsom, Gove and May end up in another couple of years time. Boris is a remainer and he'll be another Gove for being a turncoat.

Keep dreaming.

Nonsense, we are liberating Europe again, it's obvious. We always have to take the lead and wait for them to catch up.

This is what happens when you ignore the people.

 

[counter_violent]

May is very astute, i'll give her that.

Looks like she has been listening to the rest of the country as opposed to just London and the SE. About time !

This was the One thing that Osborne should have delivered. What a mistake he made by putting it on the back burner.

Regenerating areas with massive potential for upside, coupled with Brexit and global ambition will ensure the future.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38713327

So suck it up remoaners ! Watch and learn.

 

[Signalcalc]

Remoaners = London and SE as far as I can make out, they are closer to the continent in more ways than one.

 

[Atilla]

May is very astute, i'll give her that.

Looks like she has been listening to the rest of the country as opposed to just London and the SE. About time !

This was the One thing that Osborne should have delivered. What a mistake he made by putting it on the back burner.

Regenerating areas with massive potential for upside, coupled with Brexit and global ambition will ensure the future.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38713327

So suck it up remoaners ! Watch and learn.

This is excellent news which I welcome. Just wondering if you understand your own nonsense. No need to suckup. Yes please can I have more.

You praise Maggie who decimated!
You praise May as she tries to revitalise!

What has all this got to do with Brexit that's what I like to know???

Don't tell me we have to wait for article 50 before we can start.

 

[counter_violent]

This is excellent news which I welcome. Just wondering if you understand your own nonsense. No need to suckup. Yes please can I have more.

You praise Maggie who decimated!
You praise May as she tries to revitalise!

What has all this got to do with Brexit that's what I like to know???

Don't tell me we have to wait for article 50 before we can start.

What does it have to do with Brexit?

Do you seriously believe that any of these issues would even be talked about if it wasn't for Brexit.

Some weeks ago I explained to you that we, (UK) didn't need to rush around and do anything. That our negotiating position with the EU would come to us and that events would shift in our favour. That is exactly what has happened. Trump is in office, he doesn't believe in the EU project, he fully believes in an independent UK. He thinks Germany is taking the **** on multiple levels, benefits from aggregate Euro weakness, only contributes 1.2% of GDP to NATO, has a ridiculous open door policy on immigration.

China (biggest loser) is petrified now Trump is in office and Germany (second biggest loser) knows it is in the firing line for a substantial realignment.

Trump requires the UK to be the conduit to the EU. Hilarious on One level, that the UK has gone from bad boy outcast to elevated status and potential power broker to the EU, all inside 6 months.

Seriously, you need to pay more attention, as things stand I have you marked U

 

[hhiusa]

May is very astute, i'll give her that.

Looks like she has been listening to the rest of the country as opposed to just London and the SE. About time !

This was the One thing that Osborne should have delivered. What a mistake he made by putting it on the back burner.

Regenerating areas with massive potential for upside, coupled with Brexit and global ambition will ensure the future.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38713327

So suck it up remoaners ! Watch and learn.

Maybe England can go about trying to restore the empire. How the mighty have fallen. England should conglomerate with Scotland and Wales and form one country.:whistling

The EU always reminded of that sci-fi movie The Blob from 1958. A lazy creature that got bigger by consuming its victims that were too lazy to get away. The people in the movie did not really run away as fast as they should have. It is like how somebody in a horror movie always runs toward the noise instead of away.

You can travel the US territories without a passport, but Brits cannot travel to many BOTCs without a passport. Why is that?

The US has begun where the UK left off.

 

[Splitlink]

Nonsense, we are liberating Europe again, it's obvious. We always have to take the lead and wait for them to catch up.

This is what happens when you ignore the people.

That kind of drum beating is, exactly, what the mindless want to hear and why referendums on a 50/50 basis is so dangerous.

 

[Atilla]

Here is the Brexit update...

Heard on sky news, apparently the new Industry initiative is the old Vince Cable (former Secretary of State for Business Innovation and Skills) plans regenerated revamped for mass appeal. Nothing new here, all developments and ideas from Cameron and Clegg governement. There does seem to be an extra 150m for new skills training but that is a drop in the ocean.

The Northern Powerhouse label is Osbornes new pet project so mix and match and hey presto.

As mentioned has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. Something we should be doing irrespective of what ever. Always liked Vince Cable.


With respect to US trade agreement, looks like UK will sign up to the PTA agreement. Most unsatisfactroy as most peeps know. We'll soon be eating Chlorine dipped chicken and prime steak beef where the cows never see any grass stuffed with hormones and GM shiite.

US food standards micro low compared to our mega high standards. Because TM is under pressure to sign a deal she'll sell your health interests to save her political seat and legacy.

Think of the British nations pop., eating Amercian trash food stuff.

No joke. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...chicken-from-america-inspires-dread-in-europe

http://www.alternet.org/story/14568...teak_houses_still_serving_factory-farmed_beef


Please take seriously. This will impact you, your children and grand children.


.

 

[counter_violent]

Maybe England can go about trying to restore the empire. How the mighty have fallen. England should conglomerate with Scotland and Wales and form one country.:whistling

The EU always reminded of that sci-fi movie The Blob from 1958. A lazy creature that got bigger by consuming its victims that were too lazy to get away. The people in the movie did not really run away as fast as they should have. It is like how somebody in a horror movie always runs toward the noise instead of away.

You can travel the US territories without a passport, but Brits cannot travel to many BOTCs without a passport. Why is that?

The US has begun where the UK left off.

The US empire and sphere of influence has been in decline for donkeys years.

It seems to have passed you by, the rise of Asia !

 

[BeedyBrandy]

The US "empire£ has been in decline for years but with Trumps isolationism it will surely speed up the decline. Big opportunities for Asia and Europe but as Europe has lost it's ambition it looks like Asia will rise again

 

[sminicooper]

Sensible and reasonable judgement from the Supreme Court regarding Parliamentary approval for triggering of Article 50. The most significant part of the judgement is that the devolved assemblies have been told to keep their noses out of it. Excellent.

 

[dbphoenix]

So the law raises its pesky head again. Brexiters must be disappointed.

 

[Atilla]

So the law raises its pesky head again. Brexiters must be disappointed.

Ruling was not about Brexit but the relationship between Parliament and Government in power and how it conducts her business.

It was constitutional not political.

Nothing to do with Brexit. Brexit was just the vehicle for the debate as an example so to speak.

 

[sminicooper]

So the law raises its pesky head again. Brexiters must be disappointed.

Damned laws/judges/democracy & all that. We're never gonna get mob rule at this rate.


(This Brexiteer believes we'll get there lawfully, in the end)