Brexit and the Consequences

[counter_violent]

May confident after the Brexit speech, picked up the ball and running with it. You tell em girl.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38669531

Hope Trump is taking notes and learning from this !

 

[Mr. Charts]

Now thats another thread in its self....Religion..makes my blood boil, How intelligent people can be so brainwashed.....i can feel my temp rising just thinking about it..

As Corbyn's hero said, ""Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

And we know how opium addicts end up.

It's the smug self-righteousness of the religious that annoys me. You can show them their totally illogicality but their ultimate come back is the self-righteous, holier-than-thou "you have to have FAITH". Drives me crazy !

 

[mike.]

Ha! Yes, in the main I agree dbp. However, with specific regard to the referendum, the people were wise enough to embrace the evidence and facts provided by the leave campaign - and reject the negative emotion of 'project fear' offered by the remain campaign - when making their decision on which way to vote.
Tim.

Agree Tim, many people voted on their own their own personal views in the referendum, some of the younger generation voted remain purely so they had the right (should it ever arise) to work in another EU country, others purely through fear of change...Me personally, I hate the whole system where the EU dictates what we can and cant do, The enormous salary's they pay themselves, working time directive which limits my income etc etc....whatever reasons people had, Obviously there was more that wanted out.

 

[Atilla]

Agree Tim, many people voted on their own their own personal views in the referendum, some of the younger generation voted remain purely so they had the right (should it ever arise) to work in another EU country, others purely through fear of change...Me personally, I hate the whole system where the EU dictates what we can and cant do, The enormous salary's they pay themselves, working time directive which limits my income etc etc....whatever reasons people had, Obviously there was more that wanted out.

I hope you realise you are condemning a small nice little country like Belgium, depriving them from a good little earner.

What will her poor citizens do?

You have no heart.

 

[timsk]

You appear to have it backwards.

As long as we fire at the wrong targets, the situation will never improve.

Sorry dbp, you've lost me I'm afraid. What do I have backwards and what targets ought I/we be firing at?
Tim.

 

[sminicooper]

Agree Tim, many people voted on their own their own personal views in the referendum, some of the younger generation voted remain purely so they had the right (should it ever arise) to work in another EU country, others purely through fear of change...Me personally, I hate the whole system where the EU dictates what we can and cant do, The enormous salary's they pay themselves, working time directive which limits my income etc etc....whatever reasons people had, Obviously there was more that wanted out.

Someone I know very well, a well educated and clever arts (is this a clue?) graduate, told me that they voted remain because "Britain is only a small country and can't manage on its own" (now I'd believe that for Scotland) and basically we'd be left high and dry with no means of existence - a rather ill-informed conclusion in my opinion. Interesting to note that this was someone born in the 1970s who'd never known life outside the EU and being socialist minded was inclined to those of the Left who were remainers. This person works in financial services (admin - so your booty's not at risk hopefully) so perhaps that swayed them but like all good socialists, doesn't mind the capitalist system paying the wages!

I think the point is that many people don't do a Mr Spock & vote on a logical weighing up of the pros and cons but tend to believe what they're told if it chimes with their gut feelings. Another staunch right-wing friend of mine (female) doesn't like Farage because he wears a coat with a velvet collar. Nothing quite like human logic and preferences is there? And isn't that where the trading psychologists say many of us go wrong in our dealings?

 

[Splitlink]

Agree Tim, many people voted on their own their own personal views in the referendum, some of the younger generation voted remain purely so they had the right (should it ever arise) to work in another EU country, others purely through fear of change...Me personally, I hate the whole system where the EU dictates what we can and cant do, The enormous salary's they pay themselves, working time directive which limits my income etc etc....whatever reasons people had, Obviously there was more that wanted out.

I don't believe, for one minute, that 52% of the population voted in favour of Brexit because of their good hearted nature towards the country, as a whole. They did it out of self interest and, also, because Farage, etc, have the gift of the gab and conned them into it.

The same has happened in the US.

As far as being bossed from Brussels is concerned. To me, I could not care less who bosses me. I am going to be bossed, in any case.

 

[mike.]

I don't believe, for one minute, that 52% of the population voted in favour of Brexit because of their good hearted nature towards the country, as a whole. They did it out of self interest and, also, because Farage, etc, have the gift of the gab and conned them into it.

The same has happened in the US.

As far as being bossed from Brussels is concerned. To me, I could not care less who bosses me. I am going to be bossed, in any case.

I dont feel conned Split,I assume your making reference to the £350 mil on the bus ?... I understood very clearly from the outset that what was said was " this is how much we pay the EU weekly" ..this money could very well go towards the NHS instead" !

Now firstly, not one of the campaigners had any power whatsoever to give a rise in funds to the NHS I understood that, Yet people took it literally and assumed all the money that we pay the EU would go to the NHS when we left...So they feel conned . The only lies i heard was from the remain camp im afraid.

 

[sminicooper]

I don't believe, for one minute, that 52% of the population voted in favour of Brexit because of their good hearted nature towards the country, as a whole. They did it out of self interest and, also, because Farage, etc, have the gift of the gab and conned them into it.

The same has happened in the US.

As far as being bossed from Brussels is concerned. To me, I could not care less who bosses me. I am going to be bossed, in any case.

I bet people in the old Cold War Eastern Europe did. As far as I'm concerned, a democratic choice in who "bosses" me is fundamental to my philosophy. That's why I voted out.

 

[Atilla]

I dont feel conned Split,I assume your making reference to the £350 mil on the bus ?... I understood very clearly from the outset that what was said was " this is how much we pay the EU weekly" ..this money could very well go towards the NHS instead" !

Now firstly, not one of the campaigners had any power whatsoever to give a rise in funds to the NHS I understood that, Yet people took it literally and assumed all the money that we pay the EU would go to the NHS when we left...So they feel conned . The only lies i heard was from the remain camp im afraid.

I was in the remain camp and I put no lies forward.

I purely argued the economics of it all with some history thrown with some expected outcomes and risks.

Never liked Osborn some wet Etonite who didn't speak economics just presented a face.

I do like Mark Carney though. What he said back then and what his saying now is just Government blurb which he is adhering to. He is a public servant as much as independence maybe touted.

Real truth lies ahead of us.

 

[dbphoenix]

Sorry dbp, you've lost me I'm afraid. What do I have backwards and what targets ought I/we be firing at?
Tim.

You say the leave campaign provided evidence and facts and the other side relied on emotion. The opposite could also be true. Voters would not then necessarily be "wise" to "embrace" the former. They might instead be foolhardy to do so. Determining the facts for oneself rather than relying on various interpreters might enable one to focus on the appropriate target -- qui bono -- rather than be manipulated into signing up for one camp or another.

There's a game called "Let's You And Him Fight" that might be of particular interest to those who feel themselves being maneuvered into fighting against faction X.

 

[dbphoenix]

I don't believe, for one minute, that 52% of the population voted in favour of Brexit because of their good hearted nature towards the country, as a whole. They did it out of self interest and, also, because Farage, etc, have the gift of the gab and conned them into it.

The same has happened in the US.

As far as being bossed from Brussels is concerned. To me, I could not care less who bosses me. I am going to be bossed, in any case.

As to the US, they didn't vote out of self-interest. If they had, they would not have voted Republican. Rather they voted for those who manipulated them into believing that their self-interest would be served by policies that served the exact opposite, perhaps the most obvious example being healthcare.

 

[mike.]

Never liked Osborn some wet Etonite who didn't speak economics just presented a face.

I do like Mark Carney though. What he said back then and what his saying now is just Government blurb which he is adhering to. He is a public servant as much as independence maybe touted.

Real truth lies ahead of us.

When Osborn and Carney were hauled in front of the select committee, They both admitted there were e-mails and correspondence between them both prior to the referendum, Carney who is supposed to be impartial and Osbourn who is very much in the remain camp, Did he influence his him ? who knows...

 

[sminicooper]

Le Pen Moves Into Lead

 

[counter_violent]

I was in the remain camp and I put no lies forward.

I purely argued the economics of it all with some history thrown with some expected outcomes and risks.

Never liked Osborn some wet Etonite who didn't speak economics just presented a face.

I do like Mark Carney though. What he said back then and what his saying now is just Government blurb which he is adhering to. He is a public servant as much as independence maybe touted.

Real truth lies ahead of us.

So getting back to economies and GDP. According to this interviewee Andrew Neil, the US has increased GDP by 20% since 2008. The UK increased by 15% and the EU is only just back at 2008 levels.

This suggests to me that the EU is a complete basket case and in relative terms is going backwards.

What do I know !

 

[counter_violent]

Countries that want bilateral trade deals with the UK will need to form an orderly queue.

Falling over each other to be our bezzers

http://www.westmonster.com/post-brexit-aussie-uk-trade-deal-to-be-done-very-quickly/

 

[timsk]

Hi Split',

I don't believe, for one minute, that 52% of the population voted in favour of Brexit because of their good hearted nature towards the country, as a whole. They did it out of self interest and, also, because Farage, etc, have the gift of the gab and conned them into it.

This self interest business is completely ar$e about face; it's another lie peddled by the remoaners. If I'd voted out of self interest, then my X would definitely have been placed in the remain box. I - and everyone else I know who voted leave - did so not out of self interest but because it's in the best long term interests of the country. Actually, I'd go further and say it's in the best interests of the EU and members states too. They'll either have to get their house in order and implement major reforms - or c_v's prediction that the whole project goes belly up is likely to be realised. In 5 - 10 years time, assuming the EU still exists - they'll be thanking us for giving them a much needed boot up the rear!

. . .As far as being bossed from Brussels is concerned. To me, I could not care less who bosses me. I am going to be bossed, in any case.

Let's be clear about this Split', you appear to be saying that being bossed about by a democratically elected, accountable representative who you can access and get shot of if s/he fails to do their job - is no more or less preferable to someone who is unelected, unaccountable and can't be got rid of - even when they screw up. If this is how you feel, then I'm very surprised and I suspect is out of whack with the majority of people who care a great deal about who bosses them and makes the key decisions that impacts their lives.
Tim.

 

[Splitlink]

If this is how you feel, then I'm very surprised and I suspect is out of whack with the m ajority of people who care a great deal about who bosses them and makes the key decisions that impacts their lives.
Tim.

I wonder? Most of the folk, if asked in the street, who the Minister for Labour is, or any other minister, could not answer. They might moan about their lot, but they blame Brussels because that Boris, or Nigel, said so. Boris and Nigel are the pin ups of today. They must be right, mustn't they?


Judging by the kind of life I live I figure that someone must be doing something right. Taking that into consideration, although I did not have a vote, I am a Remainer. The rest of you must, all, have your reasons. I'm leaving it at that.

 

[Atilla]

There are always advantages and disadv., of anything. One should look at both sides of the coin.

Elected leaders versus non-elected lets call them civil servants; have a big difference.

Politicians need to be elected so they'll say and do what it takes to remain in power.

The civil servant, knowing his job is secure and independent of party and vested interest will do what is right based on strength and weakness of issues in hand.

What does the average layman know about technical, social, scientific matters to be able to make the right decision? Millions wasted on trial by dury when the dury has no idea how pension funds or the markets work. I was on a dury where some woman wanted to put away the defendent just because there was a chance it was him, so as not to take the chance of him being loose on the streets.



Countries queuing up to do trade with UK:

1. Australia (20m pop, 000s of miles away)
2. NZ (4m pop, 000s of miles away)
3. USA (320m pop, good few 00s of miles away, who we already do a lot of trade with anyhow) DTrump wants BAE systems to reduce costs on joint development of fighters with Lockheed.


4. INDIA (1.2bn pop, 000s of miles away) - not interested
5. CHINA (1.3bn pop, 000s of miles away) - rebuked on nuclear deal by UK due to security concerns from the US

What other countries are queuing up?

Put it in context for goodness sake. We already trade with Auzzies and NZ anyhow.

So much hot air and hype from the leave campaign if that article 50 is ever signed and submitted then the **** will really hit the fan.

All hope is left with parliamant to scrutinise deal and call it out for what a crap deal it is by the leave camp.

 

[timsk]

I wonder? Most of the folk, if asked in the street, who the Minister for Labour is, or any other minister, could not answer. . .

Yes indeed, very true - I'm a case in point. No idea who the labour leader is - have they got one? Same goes for the Lib Dem's!

It's the democratic principle of the thing that I was driving at and I suspect is what most people care about, rather than specific individuals or, even, any particular political party.
Tim.