Brexit and the Consequences

[Atilla]

The Brexit process so far.

I love that film. One of my all time favourites.

This is my favourite scene...

and this is how it ends...

 

[Signalcalc]

Not only does Transparency International - the company where @joswinson's husband @duncanhames is Executive Director - receive millions from Brussels, it is also funded by globalist billionaire George Soros' Open Society. ...and we wonder why she's wedded to the EU! 🤔

 

[timsk]

For fellow Brexiteers - Carl Benjamin hitting the nail squarely on the head as usual . . .

 

[barjon]

Whatever the underlying motives might be the formal sticking point in Parliament is anti (legally now) “no-deal”. Thus, I do not see why the people should not be asked to untie the knot by confirming or rejecting parliament’s stance. The question should be merely a choice between a deal or no deal and should not include an option to remain since leave has already been decided.

Should the electorate support parliament’s stance then the government and parliament must conclude a deal even if it’s of the watered down May type. If the electorate do not support parliament’s stance then the government has a mandate to reverse the anti no deal legislation and depart without further ado.

 

[timsk]

Whatever the underlying motives might be the formal sticking point in Parliament is anti (legally now) “no-deal”. Thus, I do not see why the people should not be asked to untie the knot by confirming or rejecting parliament’s stance. The question should be merely a choice between a deal or no deal and should not include an option to remain since leave has already been decided.

Should the electorate support parliament’s stance then the government and parliament must conclude a deal even if it’s of the watered down May type. If the electorate do not support parliament’s stance then the government has a mandate to reverse the anti no deal legislation and depart without further ado.

Hi Jon,
I'm surprised and delighted in equal measure to read your post - good on you sir! I concur 100%.

Tim.

 

[0007]

Rod & Nigel - chew the fat!

 

[barjon]

Hi Jon,
I'm surprised and delighted in equal measure to read your post - good on you sir! I concur 100%.

Tim.

Dunno why you should be surprised, Tim. Aside from the mirror image of the hard core brexiteers and the liberals the position of remainers is to thwart “no deal” not brexit.

 

[timsk]

Dunno why you should be surprised, Tim. Aside from the mirror image of the hard core brexiteers and the liberals the position of remainers is to thwart “no deal” not brexit.

Hi Jon,
That may be true of many remainers, but it's absolutely not the position of all remoaners! The latter either want to revoke Article 50 altogether or, of those that favour another referendum, want it rigged so that 'no-deal' isn't an option on the ballot paper while remaining in the EU is. That's a very different proposition from the one you've outlined and, needless to say, completely unacceptable to leavers.
Tim.

 

[barjon]

Hi Jon,
That may be true of many remainers, but it's absolutely not the position of all remoaners! The latter either want to revoke Article 50 altogether or, of those that favour another referendum, want it rigged so that 'no-deal' isn't an option on the ballot paper while remaining in the EU is. That's a very different proposition from the one you've outlined and, needless to say, completely unacceptable to leavers.
Tim.

yes, the mirror image of the hard core brexiteers and liberals, as I said. The majority, though, adopt the position I outlined.

 

[timsk]

. . .The majority, though, adopt the position I outlined.

. . . Pity none of them are in parliament!

 

[barjon]

. . . Pity none of them are in parliament!

it was Parliament I was talking about You’re confusing MPs trying to thwart “no deal“ with them trying to thwart Brexit.

 

[timsk]

it was Parliament I was talking about You’re confusing MPs trying to thwart “no deal“ with them trying to thwart Brexit.

No Jon - I'm really not! How many remain MPs can you name who favour a second referendum that (as you said in your post #10,981 above) only has two choices on the ballot paper: leave with 'no-deal' or leave with whatever deal BoJo cooks up?

 

[barjon]

No Jon - I'm really not! How many remain MPs can you name who favour a second referendum that (as you said in your post #10,981 above) only has two choices on the ballot paper: leave with 'no-deal' or leave with whatever deal BoJo cooks up?

.....and how many MPs can you name, the couple of liberals aside, who are actually calling for remain? Sure, there’s those who say that remain is better than “no deal”, but stopping “no deal“ is about getting a deal not remaining.

 

[timsk]

.....and how many MPs can you name, the couple of liberals aside, who are actually calling for remain? Sure, there’s those who say that remain is better than “no deal”, but stopping “no deal“ is about getting a deal not remaining.

So, just to be clear Jon, you can't name a single MP who advocates the view that you propose! Of course, there's a very good - and very simple reason for that - there aren't any!

That there are few MPs openly calling for remain is because they know that to do so would be an admission of what everyone (except you it seems) already knows. Namely, that they are a duplicitous bunch of hypocritical incompetents who have no respect for the electorate and are completely devoid of any humility or integrity. And that's why they don't want an election; they know their days sitting on the green benches are numbered.
Tim.

 

[barjon]

So, just to be clear Jon, you can't name a single MP who advocates the view that you propose! Of course, there's a very good - and very simple reason for that - there aren't any!

That there are few MPs openly calling for remain is because they know that to do so would be an admission of what everyone (except you it seems) already knows. Namely, that they are a duplicitous bunch of hypocritical incompetents who have no respect for the electorate and are completely devoid of any humility or integrity. And that's why they don't want an election; they know their days sitting on the green benches are numbered.
Tim.

I think that’s wildly ott, Tim. The argument in parliament has not been about whether we should stay or leave - most have accepted the referendum decision. The argument has been about how we will leave and although there is a solid majority against “no deal” there is not for any of the options put forward so far. It’s not just remainer inclined MPs who have been holding things up - we’d probably be out by now if most of the the hard line brexiteers had supported May’s deal. Such a deal may not be “out far enough” so far as many are concerned, but the nature of any deal is that it will be a compromise on the extreme out position.

Similarly, though, even if there was “no deal” all our exporters to the EU and traders or service providers operating there will have to obey all the EU rules and regulations so far as their activity is concerned. So there is no cake and eat it solution.

 

[0007]

So, just to be clear Jon, you can't name a single MP who advocates the view that you propose! Of course, there's a very good - and very simple reason for that - there aren't any!

That there are few MPs openly calling for remain is because they know that to do so would be an admission of what everyone (except you it seems) already knows. Namely, that they are a duplicitous bunch of hypocritical incompetents who have no respect for the electorate and are completely devoid of any humility or integrity. And that's why they don't want an election; they know their days sitting on the green benches are numbered.
Tim.

I think that's putting it rather mildly

 

[timsk]

I think that’s wildly ott, Tim. . .

Au contraire mon ami, I think you'll find it's the prevailing view, certainly amongst leave voters and, increasingly, amongst many remain voters too.

 

[Atilla]

Remain as we were is the best option on the table.

Leave without a deal "no-deal" is the WORST option by far.

Leave with a sub-inferior negotiated-deal to the one we already have is a botch job to appease the masses. Makes mockery of Parliament. Take a non-binding referendum as some kind of trump all institutions and pass off as law. Daft moo moo TM invoked article 50 and got her just deserts. Boris who's playing fancy politics will go the same way. If he doesn't then the country will.

Europe will in no way engage in a better deal than the one UK already has. I'd think this should be obvious to most people. Signals are loud and clear. Go and close the door behind you. Stop wasting our time.

Any exit deal will be inferior to the one we have. TM and BJ can try and dress it up any way they like.

One must never be afraid of standing up for what is right and speak the truth. LibDems only party to hold the line and clearly state objectives.

Timsk asking MPs who have spoken with integrity. Sadly he seems to ignore the LibDems looking for rif raf in Labour and Tories.

 

[Signalcalc]

I think that’s wildly ott, Tim. The argument in parliament has not been about whether we should stay or leave - most have accepted the referendum decision. The argument has been about how we will leave and although there is a solid majority against “no deal” there is not for any of the options put forward so far. It’s not just remainer inclined MPs who have been holding things up - we’d probably be out by now if most of the the hard line brexiteers had supported May’s deal. Such a deal may not be “out far enough” so far as many are concerned, but the nature of any deal is that it will be a compromise on the extreme out position.

Similarly, though, even if there was “no deal” all our exporters to the EU and traders or service providers operating there will have to obey all the EU rules and regulations so far as their activity is concerned. So there is no cake and eat it solution.

Nail on head, 'out far enough', what does that even mean? Out of the EU means free from their control, if that means that the EU cannot accept that that is what we need, then that is up to them. I think it's time to spell it out to them and anyone that is hoping for a deal, there isn't one, they have a dilemma about military unification, that cannot be resolved currently.

 

[timsk]

. . . Timsk asking MPs who have spoken with integrity. Sadly he seems to ignore the LibDems looking for rif raf in Labour and Tories.

I have credited the Illiberal Anti-democrats with at least being honest about what they really think and want - albeit very late in the day. If they'd had that view at the time of the referendum and the 2017 general election - I could even respect them. As it is, they are now a political oxymoron: having the word democrat in their party name, yet wilfully, deliberately, going against the majority view of the country. They're nothing but a (bad) joke.
Tim.