Brexit and the Consequences

[Signalcalc]

Regrettably, she did a lot to cause it by making promises that she could not or didn't want to keep!

Whilst TM can take the majority of the blame, you have to remember she is a puppet of the British establishment deep state corporatocracy and the EU, she has only been following orders from her seniors aided by MSM propaganda, therefore her bosses and the media (especially the BBC but now also includes social media - FB, Twitter, Google, etc) should also be held to account.

The only way out of this is a change of govt regime including weeding out large sections of the politicised civil service and British institutions, they have had nearly 50 years as incumbent europhiles and elites, they have had a 'common purpose' to change civil society so that integration with EU policies can be forced onto the population with little resistance, it's going to take some effort and time to reduce their influence within the the powerful institutions, the Brexit process is only a small part and just the beginning.

Then we have defence of the country, the last 10 years has seen an accelerated programme of integrating our armed forces into the EU command and control structures, it's going to be a difficult nut to crack to get it reversed and will need continued support of the voting public over a lengthy period of time. Unfortunately this issue has not been in the public eye, I expect it will become more prominent once we have left the EU and we have a change of govt regime.

The lethargic general population needs to be awoken to what has been going on for decades, the word needs to spread, the story needs to be told, whilst there is some momentum with the Brexit party, it's what happens next which is important, there are a great many people still sat on the fence, getting splinters.

It can be done, as we've already seen, but it can also be undone if people slip back into believing the MSM and now social media. The alternative platforms where dissenting voices can be heard are there, those that have been censored from mainstream social media are finding their voices elsewhere now, they have to with the amount of censorship that is being imposed.

We really are living 1984, luckily the alt news have seen it coming and have alternative plans, it's a game of chess, the alternative news is thriving on those alternative platforms and some are still on the mainstream social media platforms, but the growth of the alt news systems will continue as long as censorship continues.

 

[Signalcalc]

 

[Atilla]

And yet you seem unable to make a distinction between hurty words and violence, rather telling.

I don't support violence! Where have I said I did so?

What distinction are you referring to?

 

[Signalcalc]

I don't support violence! Where have I said I did so?

What distinction are you referring to?

Do pay attention, did you actually read the article before commenting?

 

[Atilla]

Leaving aside the flexible arithmetic of who said what and who will spend what before/during/after Brexit, it is now starting to look like the "old two-party system" is being replaced by the "new two-party system" with Lib Dems representing Remain and Brexit representing Leave. It will be interesting to see how long this lasts and whether it is effectively the end of Labour & Conservative. Come a general election (and I'm betting on it by the end of this year) how will these two shape up?

Atilla will be pleased that he has kept faith with the Lib Dems but how much of their present support is just Leaver's refuge? And what will the Brexit have to say when they reveal their plans other than Brexit? Interesting times for us political wonks!

No that's not quite correct imo.

What you need to understand is that there is no majority for Brexit! Never has been. Single referendum with a daft question and questionable 50/50 split, non-binding, carried out for all the wrong reasons can not possibly capture the complex diversity of potential outcomes, options or peoples sentiments. I really feel people need to apply some common sense.

MEP elections clearly show that:

32% of the population want Brexit at any cost.
20% just want to remain as we are.

48% remaining certainly don't necessarily want Brexit and feel party, local and national issues outweigh whatever stance those parties adopt with Brexit.

If people are really interested in democracy, it is clear that TM and the ERG and various bodies lobby groups tried their damn hardest to have their way over Brexit ignoring party lines. It didn't get past Parliament. Numbers simply don't add up.

We are in this state because Brexit was tried and simply rejected.

Eurosceptics are not much different. Same old tune. It is a fact that the EU was never a concern or issue to the mass of the British public. They have been whipped up by Farage and a minor shock consequence of US, UK, French interference in ME. All opportunists. Popularism. Call it what you will. Boris lying out of his rectum denying facts much like Trump. I'm glad we are calling his trash out for what it is. Garbage.

LibDems support is not just leavers refuge? Not sure what you mean here. They are simply remainers who feel the EU is the biggest item above and beyond local and national issues to ensure the UK remains a healthy and thriving part of the integrated EU.

I think Labour and Greens both pretty sure want to remain. Corbyn fruitcake sees EU as some imperial power. He is so yesterday's man.

If you include SNP, ChangeUK and some of Conservatives, it is clear where the heart and direction of UK lies.


As for Brexiteers, IMHO the more they shout and trumpet their wares the more people will see through their utter tosh, taking the country down a mine shaft. They need a little more time and rope to demonstrate their incompetence and if we are lucky will get to hanging themselves sooner and save the country from international humiliation.

 

[Atilla]

Do pay attention, did you actually read the article before commenting?

Which article?

Don't read them all no. Life is too short and too sweet to read every piece of insignificant droll someone posts on web.

 

[Signalcalc]

Which article?

Don't read them all no. Life is too short and too sweet to read every piece of insignificant droll someone posts on web.

The one CV posted where you equate violence against Mogg with Soubrey being called a Nazi.

It’s no wonder you mostly write tosh when you never read or watch anything properly. Your understanding of Brexit must be about 50% of the rest of us.

 

[0007]

No that's not quite correct imo.

What you need to understand is that there is no majority for Brexit! Never has been. Single referendum with a daft question and questionable 50/50 split, non-binding, carried out for all the wrong reasons can not possibly capture the complex diversity of potential outcomes, options or peoples sentiments. I really feel people need to apply some common sense.

MEP elections clearly show that:

32% of the population want Brexit at any cost.
20% just want to remain as we are.

48% remaining certainly don't necessarily want Brexit and feel party, local and national issues outweigh whatever stance those parties adopt with Brexit.

If people are really interested in democracy, it is clear that TM and the ERG and various bodies lobby groups tried their damn hardest to have their way over Brexit ignoring party lines. It didn't get past Parliament. Numbers simply don't add up.

We are in this state because Brexit was tried and simply rejected.

Eurosceptics are not much different. Same old tune. It is a fact that the EU was never a concern or issue to the mass of the British public. They have been whipped up by Farage and a minor shock consequence of US, UK, French interference in ME. All opportunists. Popularism. Call it what you will. Boris lying out of his rectum denying facts much like Trump. I'm glad we are calling his trash out for what it is. Garbage.

LibDems support is not just leavers refuge? Not sure what you mean here. They are simply remainers who feel the EU is the biggest item above and beyond local and national issues to ensure the UK remains a healthy and thriving part of the integrated EU.

I think Labour and Greens both pretty sure want to remain. Corbyn fruitcake sees EU as some imperial power. He is so yesterday's man.

If you include SNP, ChangeUK and some of Conservatives, it is clear where the heart and direction of UK lies.


As for Brexiteers, IMHO the more they shout and trumpet their wares the more people will see through their utter tosh, taking the country down a mine shaft. They need a little more time and rope to demonstrate their incompetence and if we are lucky will get to hanging themselves sooner and save the country from international humiliation.

All good stuff and we could go on discussing it for ever without being able to convince each other or anybody else that we are 100% cast-iron right!

My point is that the conversation has moved on: it's now about constitution/democracy/how our parliament works. That's why we are seeing some very interesting election results – and there will be more to come. It's turning into a fight between the established order and a dissatisfied electorate and the gloves are coming off.

 

[Atilla]

The one CV posted where you equate violence against Mogg with Soubrey being called a Nazi.

It’s no wonder you mostly write tosh when you never read or watch anything properly. Your understanding of Brexit must be about 50% of the rest of us.

I saw 5-10 seconds of it. Too loud for my ears.

So what was the violence? Have no desire to watch sorry.

My understanding of Brexit based on my studies and experience I can hazard a guess is well above average thanks.

You sounding a little like Mr Angry. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods.

 

[Signalcalc]

I saw 5-10 seconds of it. Too loud for my ears.

So what was the violence? Have no desire to watch sorry.

My understanding of Brexit based on my studies and experience I can hazard a guess is well above average thanks.

You sounding a little like Mr Angry. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods.

You didn't need to watch anything, just read, but if you are to comment on a post with some sort of assertion at least have the decency to have read and understood the article beforehand, otherwise don't bother commenting as you'll miss the point of it and any ongoing responses!

Polite forum etiquette is all that's required if you wish to participate in the debate.

Yes I am angry, like a bird 🐥

 

[Signalcalc]

I saw 5-10 seconds of it. Too loud for my ears.

So what was the violence? Have no desire to watch sorry.

My understanding of Brexit based on my studies and experience I can hazard a guess is well above average thanks.

You sounding a little like Mr Angry. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods.

Anyway, the point was JRM was assaulted by protestors, Soubrey was not, but because you didn't read the article properly you must have missed the bit where the protestors assaulted Moggy and therefore you were incorrect in equating what happened to Soubrey with what happened to Mogg.

Hurty words are not equivalent to violence.

 

[Atilla]

All good stuff and we could go on discussing it for ever without being able to convince each other or anybody else that we are 100% cast-iron right!

My point is that the conversation has moved on: it's now about constitution/democracy/how our parliament works. That's why we are seeing some very interesting election results – and there will be more to come. It's turning into a fight between the established order and a dissatisfied electorate and the gloves are coming off.

Sorry old bean but beg to differ.

My pov is that our parliament and the democratic process has indeed worked saving the country. Our institutions are strong and well established.

Election results always interesting. How would you interpret them?

The dissatisfied electorate is more to do with austerity, our politicians and essentially the Tory party, rather than EU. As I say before EU was of no consequence to mass British public.

Police, Teacher, Nurse, Doctors and level of public services and cost ie transport is the real concerns. Sooner we bury Brexit quicker we can move.

I sincerely believe the British public are waking up to what negative and bad effect Farage and UKIP/Brexit Party have been to the UK.

 

[Atilla]

Anyway, the point was JRM was assaulted by protestors, Soubrey was not, but because you didn't read the article properly you must have missed the bit where the protestors assaulted Moggy and therefore you were incorrect in equating what happened to Soubrey with what happened to Mogg.

Hurty words are not equivalent to violence.

Corbyn was attacked by an egg.

Moggy assaulted with water.

Soubry followed and shouted at in her face.


You are getting a little too hot under the collar for not much standing on your high and mighty box.

fwiw I still think Soubry incident was the most serious.

 

[Signalcalc]

fwiw I still think Soubry incident was the most serious.

Why do you think someone calling someone names is worse that being attacked with violence?

Politicians are in the public eye, being shouted at is part of their job, being protested against is part of their job, it has always been since politicians were around. There is a line to be drawn somewhere. What should not be tolerated is any form of abuse in the form of physical assault, no matter how small, offenders should be severely punished.

It may be water today, milkshake tomorrow, acid the following day, a knife or gun after that, it needs to be stamped on at the earliest opportunity by the authorities.

If Soubrey was subject to physical assault I would say the same, however all politicians are shouted at on a daily basis with no outcome, Soubrey is a particular kind of snowflake, the punishment for her offender does not fit the crime, I agree he should be punished though as he was making personal insults that were too far, but when Soubrey accuses a bunch of people of being Nazis and racists with no outcome, then who is the abuser and who the abusee?

I would like to know what is happening to the physical offenders. This level of violence is slowly being normalised as a way to protest against our politicians, it is not morally right and shouldn’t be encouraged, neither should protesters verbal shouts be equated with physical violence as a way to dumb down that violence and normalise it.

 

[Atilla]

Why do you think someone calling someone names is worse that being attacked with violence?

Politicians are in the public eye, being shouted at is part of their job, being protested against is part of their job, it has always been since politicians were around. There is a line to be drawn somewhere. What should not be tolerated is any form of abuse in the form of physical assault, no matter how small, offenders should be severely punished.

It may be water today, milkshake tomorrow, acid the following day, a knife or gun after that, it needs to be stamped on at the earliest opportunity by the authorities.

If Soubrey was subject to physical assault I would say the same, however all politicians are shouted at on a daily basis with no outcome, Soubrey is a particular kind of snowflake, the punishment for her offender does not fit the crime, I agree he should be punished though as he was making personal insults that were too far, but when Soubrey accuses a bunch of people of being Nazis and racists with no outcome, then who is the abuser and who the abusee?

I would like to know what is happening to the physical offenders. This level of violence is slowly being normalised as a way to protest against our politicians, it is not morally right and shouldn’t be encouraged, neither should protesters verbal shouts be equated with physical violence as a way to dumb down that violence and normalise it.

She's a lady and the other two are men.

Agree with the rest of what you say. Don't forget Joe Cox and who shot her. Or the 4:9 ratio (I think not 100%) where Scotland Yard has acknowledged the terror threat posed by the far right.

So eggs, water and milkshakes pales into a little bit insignificance in contrast.


Once again, I don't remember you or CV being so outraged before over those other attacks. Just an observation, based on number of posts by you two off the top of my RAM.

 

[Signalcalc]

She's a lady and the other two are men.

Agree with the rest of what you say. Don't forget Joe Cox and who shot her. Or the 4:9 ratio (I think not 100%) where Scotland Yard has acknowledged the terror threat posed by the far right.

So eggs, water and milkshakes pales into a little bit insignificance in contrast.


Once again, I don't remember you or CV being so outraged before over those other attacks. Just an observation, based on number of posts by you two off the top of my RAM.

I don’t think any of us were on this thread at the time of Joe Cox, yes very crazed.

 

[counter_violent]

She's a lady and the other two are men.

Agree with the rest of what you say. Don't forget Joe Cox and who shot her. Or the 4:9 ratio (I think not 100%) where Scotland Yard has acknowledged the terror threat posed by the far right.

So eggs, water and milkshakes pales into a little bit insignificance in contrast.


Once again, I don't remember you or CV being so outraged before over those other attacks. Just an observation, based on number of posts by you two off the top of my RAM.

Another ridiculous pov. She's a lady and the other two are men. So what! She will end up where she belongs.....kicked out of office. She doesn't even have the balls to stand for re-election since she jumped ship whilst retaining the powers and priviledges of office.
Sturgeon gobs off all the time. Doesn't mean that the right of thinking have to let her go unchallenged does it.
May has taken the UK in the wrong direction and is now paying the price. Not just for herself, but she has dragged the Tory party down with her. So yes she is easily the worst PM in modern times and deserves all she gets.

Just because someone is female, ethnic minority, LGBTQ, does not mean they deserve special treatment. Pandering to minority interests and affording people special treatment is exactly the reason why the majority are in revolt against the establishment.
We can live in hope that One day you might get it !

 

[counter_violent]

Anyway......lots and lots of good news to report. The tide is turning.

Brexit Party lead General Election poll by 4-point margin - Westmonster

Opinium have the Brexit Party leading a poll for the next General Election by 4 clear points. Big things are happening in British politics right now.

www.westmonster.com

Hundreds of Brexit Party activists descend on Peterborough - Westmonster

The Brexit Party has enjoyed fine weather for its huge action day in the Peterborough constituency on the final weekend before next Thursday's crucial

www.westmonster.com

 

[Signalcalc]

Another ridiculous pov. She's a lady and the other two are men. So what! She will end up where she belongs.....kicked out of office. She doesn't even have the balls to stand for re-election since she jumped ship whilst retaining the powers and priviledges of office.
Sturgeon gobs off all the time. Doesn't mean that the right of thinking have to let her go unchallenged does it.
May has taken the UK in the wrong direction and is now paying the price. Not just for herself, but she has dragged the Tory party down with her. So yes she is easily the worst PM in modern times and deserves all she gets.

Just because someone is female, ethnic minority, LGBTQ, does not mean they deserve special treatment. Pandering to minority interests and affording people special treatment is exactly the reason why the majority are in revolt against the establishment.
We can live in hope that One day you might get it !

The politics of identity over outcome, it’s like reading Guardian opinion every time Att replies.

 

[Signalcalc]

Anyway......lots and lots of good news to report. The tide is turning.

Brexit Party lead General Election poll by 4-point margin - Westmonster

Opinium have the Brexit Party leading a poll for the next General Election by 4 clear points. Big things are happening in British politics right now.

www.westmonster.com

Hundreds of Brexit Party activists descend on Peterborough - Westmonster

The Brexit Party has enjoyed fine weather for its huge action day in the Peterborough constituency on the final weekend before next Thursday's crucial

www.westmonster.com

Is Peterborough the Bell Weather for a general election ?