Brexit and the Consequences

[Splitlink]

As an expat who still feels British and along with your compatriots in Spain, do you think Brits in Europe should have been included in the advisory vote (considering it wasn't binding in law)?

Do you think Nigel Lawson having publicly announced and living in France should be allowed to maintain his position in the House of Lords as well as participate in the campaign?

Why have conflicting rules and approach?

I, personally, having lived here for 52 years and not having visited UK since 1987. Do not believe that I had a right, moral or legal, to vote in the referendum. There are stacks like me, all over Europe, so there should be a cut-off period, don't you think?

However, that time limit should have been set and those within that period should have been offered the opportunity to vote. In fact it is just another example of the sloppy way it was organised.

To answer the second question. No.

 

[forker]

Here is my 2 pence how this is going to roll....

Mps will vote on terms. Those terms will include brexiter terms and remoaner terms. The likelihood of it consisting of single market access is high but there will be brexiter clauses in there.

The eu won't negotiate until article 50 is triggered. This court ruling isn't going prevent its triggering.

Article 50 is triggered. UK starts negotiations with Brussels. The UK it told to p!55 off as the terms are not agreeable. Time goes on and negotiations continue. Ultimately the UK will run out of time because Brussels can't agree on their breakfast let alone anything important.

2 year mark is reached and the UK is officially out of the eu.

 

[counter_violent]

Remember the Jarrow march.

Maybe it's time to organise the Brexit march.

 

[Atilla]

How dare the working classes vote to leave ! But don't worry, only London matters so don't worry about them Northerners and provincials who voted to leave. Yes-the London elite and other chattering classes will obfuscate matters until they get their way, thus, the elite and their hangers on will get us back in. Democracy is okay providing the ruling classes get their way.
Maybe Brexit was a protest vote by those fed up with poor pay, high housing costs, dreadful working practices ( Zero hours and compulsory self employment status - no holiday or sick pay or pension contribution). Add to that a sizeable proportion of the population who have no representation by current political parties ( Blair didn't stop the raising of the pensionable age,, zero hours and self employment law abuse etc)...........and Corbyn......well....unelectable. Therefore this forgotten large group of voters will still wait for someone to fight their corner. Until then the protest vote is only one of a small number of ways to express their despair and disillusionment with their current lot in society to which they have difficulty relating to. Probably a similar situation in America gave rise to the popularity of Trump as the champion of the unrepresented (See news stories of real America with closed steel mills and dilapidated housing stock, unemployment etc). Heard on the wireless that some employers can't get people to work for them in London -well, that's because housing (renting /buying) is cheaper outside London plus travel costs into London continue to rise whilst wages do not.

I hear your protest and your pain. fwiw I've always favoured a more equitable distribution of wealth against some of these other bodies voting for Brexit and support for our industries including subsidies and regional aid.

We should walk through an exercise as to what would cause an industrial manufacturer to locate up North in a place like Liverpool for example. Not that I don't like Liverpool or think it a bad place. Being a port should be attractive for exporting stuff to NA etc. However, businesses prefer to locate near their markets and that is ultimately South England.

How does your protest vote or Brexit help the situation up North? Have you seriously considered the outcomes and what if?


Democracy and rule of Parliament is a must. If you talk of democracy than you should object to a bunch of crazy people with hopeful ideas and no plans acting to the detriment of the United Kingdom.

Think through how Brexit will deliver your hopes and try and persuade us otherwise.

 

[forker]

If you talk of democracy than you should object to a bunch of crazy people with hopeful ideas and no plans acting to the detriment of the United Kingdom.

translated as

object to people who wish to make their country great while cutting ties with all of us who left because we didn't want to live there anymore.

 

[counter_violent]

I hear your protest and your pain. fwiw I've always favoured a more equitable distribution of wealth against some of these other bodies voting for Brexit and support for our industries including subsidies and regional aid.

We should walk through an exercise as to what would cause an industrial manufacturer to locate up North in a place like Liverpool for example. Not that I don't like Liverpool or think it a bad place. Being a port should be attractive for exporting stuff to NA etc. However, businesses prefer to locate near their markets and that is ultimately South England.

How does your protest vote or Brexit help the situation up North? Have you seriously considered the outcomes and what if?


Democracy and rule of Parliament is a must. If you talk of democracy than you should object to a bunch of crazy people with hopeful ideas and no plans acting to the detriment of the United Kingdom.

Think through how Brexit will deliver your hopes and try and persuade us otherwise.

In a lot of ways, we feel a bit sorry for shandy drinking Southerners with their outrageous cost of living and all those over priced Sainsbury's outlets.

btw, we don't need permission to vote how we see fit and you would do well to remember that. :smart:

Not everyone in the North wears a flat cap and keeps his ferret down his trousers. Some of us do quite well dontcha know.

Make no mistake here. Brexit WILL happen, One way or another.

 

[tokyojoe]

In a lot of ways, we feel a bit sorry for shandy drinking Southerners with their outrageous cost of living and all those over priced Sainsbury's outlets.

btw, we don't need permission to vote how we see fit and you would do well to remember that. :smart:

Not everyone in the North wears a flat cap and keeps his ferret down his trousers. Some of us do quite well dontcha know.

Make no mistake here. Brexit WILL happen, One way or another.

Sainsbury's :-0:-0 Good God man !! surely a typo......you mean Waitrose for southern shandy drinking southerners !

 

[counter_violent]

Sainsbury's :-0:-0 Good God man !! surely a typo......you mean Waitrose for southern shandy drinking southerners !

Probably their main competition

 

[tokyojoe]

Man I swear to God, this thread is actually slowing my internet connection !

Pages & pages &.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Atilla, you got me ! I've sent a letter to Tezza, she replied telling me you have to stop sending letters to number 10 !

 

[Atilla]

translated as

object to people who wish to make their country great while cutting ties with all of us who left because we didn't want to live there anymore.

I wish to make UK great too. There lies the conundrum?

I do not believe we are making UK great by Brexiting. On the contrary acting to the demise of Great Britain, which has historically being a pioneering, world leading nation with links to the whole wide world.

Our history oozes international trade from every decade of her foundation.

All great nations at heart have the crossing of international foot soldiers across its terrain.

As always look at what makes other countries great and emulate those practices.


Look at countries which do not have open free borders and multitude of nationalities and I see stale regular hum drum nations with no particular attraction.

How does Brexit make your wish come true. It doesn't. It's based on a rant and hopeful expectation of undermining and looking forward for the demise of the EU which will not happen.

Even if some countries leave it will make the core stronger.

We will not be going to war with Germany in my life time or for good many years to come. On the contrary we are more likely to fight shoulder to shoulder coming to each others aid as France came to ours fighting Argentina.


Brexiters need a mind shift and a little more vision. Not wishes and hopes of glory which has no bearing on Northern regions of the UK and will not lead to more jobs or higher wages. Quite the opposite.

 

[counter_violent]

Calls for Nigel to return to the helm.
Not unreasonable given that May may have to call an election soon.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...der-pressure-permanent-return-leader-politics

 

[counter_violent]

Question time lively tonight !

 

[Splitlink]

So, what with the court ruling on a parliamentary vote, plus BoE's statement, this morning, the fact is that no one knows.

When I wrote that I did not know whether I was coming or going, some time back, I should have been referring to you guys!

But, if you are going to have a general election and take a parliamentary vote, all before March ends, you have to get cracking.

I think that someone is trying to talk the pound up, again, so as to make a quick buck!

 

[Atilla]

U.K.’s Supreme Court stands on London’s Parliament Square, separated from the historic structures housing lawmakers and religious leaders by about 400 feet.

The top court was founded seven years ago to ensure that politics and the judiciary never mix. That balance faces an unprecedented test as early as Dec. 5, when lawsuits seeking to delay Prime Minister Theresa May’s plan for exiting the European Union are heard.

"It will be the most important constitutional case that court will have heard," said Robert Thomas, a professor of public law at the University of Manchester.

"It’s such a big constitutional issue, testing the relationship between parliament, the courts and the government in the light of the referendum."

A panel of three senior judges said Thursday that Parliament must hold a vote before starting a two-year countdown to Brexit, in a ruling that sidestepped political allegiances to focus on constitutional law.

"Nothing we say has any bearing on the question of the merits or demerits of withdrawal by the United Kingdom from the European Union: nor does it have any bearing on government policy because government policy is not law," the judges said in the ruling.

No matter how hard they tried, though, the decision was seized upon by politicians who campaigned to leave the EU.

 

[tar]

So, what with the court ruling on a parliamentary vote, plus BoE's statement, this morning, the fact is that no one knows.

When I wrote that I did not know whether I was coming or going, some time back, I should have been referring to you guys!

But, if you are going to have a general election and take a parliamentary vote, all before March ends, you have to get cracking.

I think that someone is trying to talk the pound up, again, so as to make a quick buck!

Early elections plus parliament vote plus article 50 plus boe and inflation , lol . It is going to be very volatile for cable 1000 pips swings overnight .

 

[Pat494]

It seems strange to me that the 3 judges should make the decisions on politicians when it is the politicians who make the rules and the judges enforce those political decisions.

Altogether a gray area. Hundreds of years ago they would have had a fight for power.

 

[Splitlink]

It seems strange to me that the 3 judges should make the decisions on politicians when it is the politicians who make the rules and the judges enforce those political decisions.

Altogether a gray area. Hundreds of years ago they would have had a fight for power.

I don't know where you are going with this. The judges are enforcing the law of the land. I've heard, so often,that the judges are there to see that the law is observed. If the people do not like that law then it is up to their representatives ie. MPs, to change it.

Part of the Brexit decision was based on the wish to return decision making to Parliament, instead of having to obey Brussels.

It surprises me that the first test of Parliament is objected to in this way and, not omly that, but the judiciary system is being ostracised, with the judges names and photos on the front pages.

Probably, the best thing is to have new elections but, if that is not wanted, then Parliament must have that vote, otherwise, referendum, or not, the whole thing is illegal.

This was never going to be easy and I repeat, 52% is too narrow a majority.. 48% is a lot of disgruntled people.

 

[Atilla]

It seems strange to me that the 3 judges should make the decisions on politicians when it is the politicians who make the rules and the judges enforce those political decisions.

Altogether a gray area. Hundreds of years ago they would have had a fight for power.

Politicians do not make the rules.

Politicians collectively put forward rules which are debated and passed by Parliament and the House of Lords.

Once a law is passed by Parliament, judges than pass judgement on the rule and application of the law.


What you say is precisely the problem. A handful of politicians lead by Theresa May and her cabinet wishes to negotiate behind closed doors, making up rules on all our behalf, introducing change of law without Parliament getting a look in.


I also think it is abominable that politicians and media acting remarkably in contempt of court with their outrageous remarks belittling British democracy.

The circus is really in town tonight with Guy Fawkes night.

 

[Pat494]

This was never going to be easy and I repeat, 52% is too narrow a majority.. 48% is a lot of disgruntled people.

Cameron could I think have stipulated in advance that it should have been a , say 20% majority, to make it binding.
Another lack of judgement imho and cost him his job.

 

[Pat494]

Politicians do not make the rules.


I also think it is abominable that politicians and media acting remarkably in contempt of court with their outrageous remarks belittling British democracy.

The circus is really in town tonight with Guy Fawkes night.

Politicians in Parlt. do make the rules as I understand it.
The politicians did cover the referendum with an Act. and the judges should respect that.
May is right to keep her negotiating cards close to her chest until the right time to disclose. And not having the remainers making additional problems. They should democratically accept the referendum and stop moaning.