Brexit and the Consequences

[Windlesham1]

Hi Jon,
Given that you're a remainer, I'd be interested to hear how you (and Atilla et al) interpret the testimonies provided by Steve Baker and Suella Braverman to the European Scrutiny Committee. To my mind, either they are lying through their teeth or the situation is every bit as clear cut as I described it in my post. To save you searching for the YouTube links, I'll attach them here. The first one is the main one - but the other two are well worth watching if you've not done so already.
Tim.

I asked for a response from Michael Gove about the Steve Baker evidence- nothing,nada.zip to date. The Maybot had my respect until that clip showed her to be a traitor.

 

[counter_violent]

Nothing in the vids that we didn't already know. Deeps state at it's finest. They run everything, control everything. Even the politicians are powerless to act in the democratic interest. The only good thing to come out of all this is the fact that more ordinary people are now more aware that these forces are at play, as the alternative media has grown and reached a wider audience. Of course, there are still those with their heads stuck firmly in the sand. Can't reach everyone...hey ho.

 

[barjon]

Hi Jon,
Given that you're a remainer, I'd be interested to hear how you (and Atilla et al) interpret the testimonies provided by Steve Baker and Suella Braverman to the European Scrutiny Committee. To my mind, either they are lying through their teeth or the situation is every bit as clear cut as I described it in my post. To save you searching for the YouTube links, I'll attach them here. The first one is the main one - but the other two are well worth watching if you've not done so already.
Tim.

Tim,

Lunch break - the sun’s too hot . Yes, it’s all hard hitting and I don’t think that they would have been telling downright lies - probably egging the pudding somewhat though. Certainly what they say doesn’t gel altogether with what was being reported at the time - murmurings of Canada ++ deal but nothing substantive (nothing really there or muzzled by No10?) and rumours that No10 becoming frustrated at their lack of progress.

Was there any evidence presented from the No10 side? Be a different slant to it from there I’d guess.

If there is another referendum (God forbid) that includes a stay option I’ll be in a real quandary. On the one hand we’ve already voted to go - albeit by a small majority - and that should be respected, on the other hand I believe so strongly that leaving will be extremely detrimental to us in the long term. Oh, decisions, decisions.

 

[Windlesham1]

the EU could fall apart after Brexit- if other nations see us doing ok. The Euro is a dangerous experiment and has served Germany well, while crushing other member states. It is indeed a right pickle- smug Cameron had no idea how out of touch Wetmonster is. People are sick of losing their identity, their community-it's like the 70s but with much nastier terror threats. Broken Britain-too soft on immigration resulting in this backlash.

 

[counter_violent]

Another project fear hype demolished. And once again, not reported on the BBC.........how very typical.

https://www.westmonster.com/eu-agree-reciprocal-access-for-lorries-and-planes-after-no-deal1/

 

[barjon]

Honda closure in Swindon is absolutely nothing to do with Brexit says local MP (Tory). Yeah, right, pull the other one.

 

[Atilla]

uNisan and now Honda with others to follow. Undoubtedly they will not directly point the finger at Brexit but uncertainty is indeed a very BIG part of the decision.

Let's just analyse a basic few points and one doesn't have to be Einstein to add up the numbers.

Car industry going through major change yes; with petrol to Electric conversion. However, whether the car is Petrol/Electric or Diesel EU rules haven't changed on the value added rules wrt goods originating in EU member states.

The KEY questions are; car industries about to make some significant structural investments on car design. Where should that investment be made?

Whether hard/soft/no Brexit occurs or not, the signs are unclear. This uncertainty with the Eurosceptics is not going to go away unless some significant show-down takes place and they are put to rest. So why invest in the UK? Why take that risk?

Thus, at this opportune time when new investment is about to be made then the location of that investment and long term certainty and viability of that project is a key.

Anyone who does not acknowledge this key factor is in denial. Why commit to investing in UK? What is there to be gained in remaining in UK compared to all the headaches of potential tariffs with import/export delivery issues. Why take the risk of uncertain outcomes having witnessed the shambolic conduct of Brexiteers and UK Gov.

Both Japanese businessmen and their PM told TM they prefer to see us in EU not outside. They said this publicly. So did China.

Obviously, their CEOs can't say we are leaving because of Brexit. They would be an outcry that they are intervening in UK's domestic policy. They may alienate their Brexit customers. Well managed companies don't get involved in poitical decisions but simply focus on production.

BoE, Mr Carney said the same with respect to uncertainty and drop in investment has cost the UK, drop in investment approximately around 50bn +. Especially at a time when global economy was growing.


Once again whether it is Airbus, Motor, R&D, Defence, Satellites etc etc., such investment will look for an alternative, more secure and stable European home. This is just the start and we haven't left yet. Once these go, it'll be very hard to bring them back.


3500 jobs + peripheral ancillary services now must be wondering what will replace those jobs and incomes post Brexit.

I reckon we should scrap HS2 and setup new state of the art electric car production plant with that money instead. Let's turn a negative into a positive.

 

[Signalcalc]

Once again whether it is Airbus, Motor, R&D, Defence, Satellites etc etc., such investment will look for an alternative, more secure and stable European home.

Except Honda aren't looking for an EU home, they are taking production back to Japan where their factories have also seen a dropoff in production due to a slowdown and therefore have spare production capacity. It appears you are correct, they are not getting involved in political decisions, what sort of business would do that!

 

[Signalcalc]

Looks to me it's the EU-Japan trade agreement that has prompted Honda not to invest but withdraw production from UK (and the EU), they have lower trade barriers and have no need to produce inside the EU to lower production costs, so the blame is on the EU and Japan for agreeing a trade deal. To me that is business, it's certainly not Brexit that is the main reason.

 

[Atilla]

Japan's agreement with the imploding EU that some say is failing.

Why would they do that?

Also, what about all the other countries not in EU? U.K. no longer an attractive investment location or destination.

UNCERTAINTY of outcome is going to hurt us for a very long time. This is just the start.

Other potential investment looking for a new home for what ever r eason will weigh similar considerations.

You can add import tariffs, higher wages and higher cost of imports to that list.

TOtal Impending Disaster. Can't see damage being undone anytime soon.

 

[Signalcalc]

Japan's agreement with the imploding EU that some say is failing.

Why would they do that?

Also, what about all the other countries not in EU? U.K. no longer an attractive investment location or destination.

UNCERTAINTY of outcome is going to hurt us for a very long time. This is just the start.

Other potential investment looking for a new home for what ever r eason will weigh similar considerations.

You can add import tariffs, higher wages and higher cost of imports to that list.

TOtal Impending Disaster. Can't see damage being undone anytime soon.

So still Brexit not the main reason.

 

[barjon]

Except Honda aren't looking for an EU home, they are taking production back to Japan where their factories have also seen a dropoff in production due to a slowdown and therefore have spare production capacity. It appears you are correct, they are not getting involved in political decisions, what sort of business would do that!

Yes, I’d forgotten that in my rush to judgemen so I hang my head . (Bet Brexit still played a minor part, though )

 

[Signalcalc]

Japan's agreement with the imploding EU that some say is failing.

Why would they do that?

Business risk. EU is attractive outside the Eurozone with a good trade deal, not so hot inside the Eurozone. Question is has Japan paved the way for other good trade deals to be made [emoji6]

 

[Atilla]

Business risk. EU is attractive outside the Eurozone with a good trade deal, not so hot inside the Eurozone. Question is has Japan paved the way for other good trade deals to be made [emoji6]

Yes it has along with Canada whilst UK heading out the door in foul temper.

What is all that about then?

 

[Signalcalc]

Yes it has along with Canada whilst UK heading out the door in foul temper.

What is all that about then?

Good then it should be a fairly straightforward process as a non-EU member, all depends on how difficult the negotiations would be [emoji2]

 

[Atilla]

Good then it should be a fairly straightforward process as a non-EU member, all depends on how difficult the negotiations would be [emoji2]

Ok so you are basically up for a Canada or Japan trade agreement? Same as I assume.

 

[counter_violent]

Ok so you are basically up for a Canada or Japan trade agreement? Same as I assume.

Oh you've changed your tune. Have you accepted yet that we will be leaving with No Deal?

 

[timsk]

Yes, I’d forgotten that in my rush to judgemen so I hang my head . (Bet Brexit still played a minor part, though )

Of course it did, Jon!
I've just had a new radiator put in and the damn thing's on its third leak. Now, you might think that if I was looking for someone - or something - to blame, my first port of call would be my plumber. And you'd be right. When I asked him for his comments about it he just said, "Don't look at me guv', it ain't my fault, it's Brexit init!"


The thing that annoys me more than Brexit being blamed for any and every bit of bad news is when journalists / reporters / commentators announce some good news and prefix it with 'in spite of Brexit' (unemployment fell, GDP rose by xyz% etc.) That really gets my goat! It's extraordinary to think there are some folk out there who actually believe the MSM are biased in favour of Brexit!
Tim.

 

[barjon]

Of course it did, Jon!
I've just had a new radiator put in and the damn thing's on its third leak. Now, you might think that if I was looking for someone - or something - to blame, my first port of call would be my plumber. And you'd be right. When I asked him for his comments about it he just said, "Don't look at me guv', it ain't my fault, it's Brexit init!"


The thing that annoys me more than Brexit being blamed for any and every bit of bad news is when journalists / reporters / commentators announce some good news and prefix it with 'in spite of Brexit' (unemployment fell, GDP rose by xyz% etc.) That really gets my goat! It's extraordinary to think there are some folk out there who actually believe the MSM are biased in favour of Brexit!
Tim.

Well, that’s ok. You’ll be lucky to find a plumber after Brexit when all the Polish ones have gone back home

 

[Atilla]

Oh you've changed your tune. Have you accepted yet that we will be leaving with No Deal?

Sorry that's my bad grammar. Missing comma. I meant Same As what ever Japan has agreed if SC feels that's a good deal. So he is stating we leave EU and go with what ever deal others are signing up to with EU.

My personal position is we are better-in. Referendum was a cry for help to stop immigration outside of non-EU countries and invest in other UK regions.

Thank you for pointing that out.