Brexit and the Consequences

timsk

Legendary member
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I think it's more likely to be the quality of debate that has lost Cantagril's attention span. :p
Hi At',
I've participated/contributed to the comments section of a few YouTube channels devoted to Brexit and, based on those experiences, I can say with complete confidence that the standard of debate here on your thread is of a much higher standard than it is on YouTube. Okay, a few of us here (on both sides of the argument) can be a bit blunt and a bit rude occasionally - but it's thankfully devoid of the vitriol that some YouTubers dish out to anyone - regardless of what they write - based simply on which way they voted in the referendum. Whilst the same arguments do tend to get repeated ad nauseam, I can honestly say that I've learnt a lot from this thread (and the Brexit thread that that preceded it) and, in part, my views have been shaped as a result of it. I have you to thank for that - although I imagine you'll be disappointed that I started out as a default remainer pre-referendum and am now a keen Brexiteer! ;-)
Tim.
 

Atilla

Legendary member
18,760 2,615
Hi At',
I've participated/contributed to the comments section of a few YouTube channels devoted to Brexit and, based on those experiences, I can say with complete confidence that the standard of debate here on your thread is of a much higher standard than it is on YouTube. Okay, a few of us here (on both sides of the argument) can be a bit blunt and a bit rude occasionally - but it's thankfully devoid of the vitriol that some YouTubers dish out to anyone - regardless of what they write - based simply on which way they voted in the referendum. Whilst the same arguments do tend to get repeated ad nauseam, I can honestly say that I've learnt a lot from this thread (and the Brexit thread that that preceded it) and, in part, my views have been shaped as a result of it. I have you to thank for that - although I imagine you'll be disappointed that I started out as a default remainer pre-referendum and am now a keen Brexiteer! ;-)
Tim.
Thank you for your kind words Tim, and I feel the same likewise about you and everyone else's help in setting me straight on some areas. (y) That old adage two heads better than one certainly true. Thank goodness we have Parliament and HoLs to save us from our selves. :)

Brexit is likely to be a long journey and I do miss Splitlink's European pov as I will miss Cantagril's and I wish they would say why they have left or are leaving. Certainly made the thread more interesting and colourful.

This thread has much collective experience in the bloggers and that is what makes opinions more valuable imo.

I'm not easily disappointed and with a comfortable early retirement ahead of me I only worry for my kids and the younger generation.

:)
 
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counter_violent

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I just find it highly suspicious that 40% of Tory councillors appear to be defecting in some way to the Brexit party. Is there a cynical takeover going on to prevent the Tories from collapsing into a heap or is it genuine defection from the Tories?

Devastating poll shows 40% of Tory councillors back the Brexit Party

Or is this the daily rag stirring it up, whilst promoting the Brexit party?
Brexit Party will attract real Tories as opposed to all those fakers who might as well be LibLabCon MP dross, who make up the majority in the HOC. Tory party split as MP's jump One way or the other post EU election drubbing. Maybe the Brexit Party will break through into mainstream politics.

As far as I can see, there will be just One outcome to all this. The people continually voting for any party who puts their name to a No Deal exit. After the dust settles, the EU will come begging for a trade deal. (y)(y)


https://www.westmonster.com/brexit-party-already-has-60000-paid-supporters/
 
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Signalcalc

Senior member
3,005 631
Brexit Party will attract real Tories as opposed to all those fakers who might as well be LibLabCon MP dross, who make up the majority in the HOC. Tory party split as MP's jump One way or the other post EU election drubbing. Maybe the Brexit Party will break through into mainstream politics.

As far as I can see, there will be just One outcome to all this. The people continually voting for any party who puts their name to a No Deal exit. After the dust settles, the EU will come begging for a trade deal. (y)(y)


https://www.westmonster.com/brexit-party-already-has-60000-paid-supporters/
Looks to me to be more of a protest vote against the current Tory leadership, EU elections don't really matter to Tory Eurosceptics, MEP''s won't be there as soon as we exit.

I agree that any Brexit party is going to win the votes of people that voted leave, as soon as we leave what happens to those voters, indeed what happens to the Brexit party? I hope it won't be the same as the first time around and the whole thing is abandoned and left to remainers to sort out, we'd just be going around in circles.
 

0007

Senior member
2,219 553
It's no longer just about Brexit is it? Farage has been very astute in moving the argument onto democracy/betrayal/integrity. Labour & Conservative are still fighting the pros/cons of Brexit and who should lead their rabble. They just don't get it do they? And as for the Greens/Independent Group/Liberals .......................
 

barjon

Legendary member
10,236 1,539
I’ve been lounging on my sunbed by the pool for the past couple of weeks and musing gently about Brexit.

With all this talk of betrayal etc it seems to have escaped notice that the Government is doing its damndest to leave and deliver on the voice of the people (well, 52% of them anyway). Ah, I hear you say, but May’s deal is leaving in name only. Well, if you’ve taken the trouble to read it you will know that it is much more than that - as well as protecting our trade (particularly services) for the future.

So what about “no deal”? Yup, that would get us out without any obligations to the EU unless, of course, we wish to interact and trade with them in which case it would be on WTO terms. That would mean we would immediately have to accept a whole raft of EU rules and regulations in order to trade with them and our services (probably our most important sector nowadays) would be less protected than under May’s deal. This is probably worth a read https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/What-would-trading-on-WTO-terms-mean-Long-Guide.pdf .

I still really struggle to see how we would be better off overall out of the EU and I also struggle to see how we can just do whatever we want after having “taken back control”. After all, unless you want to be a hermit you have to take account of other people if you want to interact with them. Life (and politics) is about compromise.
 
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Signalcalc

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I’ve been lounging on my sunbed by the pool for the past couple of weeks and musing gently about Brexit.

With all this talk of betrayal etc it seems to have escaped notice that the Government is doing its damndest to leave and deliver on the voice of the people (well, 52% of them anyway). Ah, I hear you say, but May’s deal is leaving in name only. Well, if you’ve taken the trouble to read it you will know that it is much more than that - as well as protecting our trade (particularly services) for the future.

So what about “no deal”? Yup, that would get us out without any obligations to the EU unless, of course, we wish to interact and trade with them in which case it would be on WTO terms. That would mean we would immediately have to accept a whole raft of EU rules and regulations in order to trade with them and our services (probably our most important sector nowadays) would be less protected than under May’s deal. This is probably worth a read https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/What-would-trading-on-WTO-terms-mean-Long-Guide.pdf .

I still really struggle to see how we would be better off overall out of the EU and I also struggle to see how we can just do whatever we want after having “taken back control”. After all, unless you want to be a hermit you have to take account of other people if you want to interact with them. Life (and politics) is about compromise.
It appears the compromises that would have to be made (ie BRINO) to appease remainers are compromises too far.

Wax lyrical all you like about the benefits, until the EU compromises then there is no change to May's proposed BRINO.

I won't mention defence, no one on the remain side is remotely interested in the lack of compromise there (which is why we have May's BRINO in the first place).
 

Signalcalc

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3,005 631
I have a feeling of unease with the Brexit party. Something is afoot. For what reason would die-hard Tories be putting themselves forward as EU candidates for a party other than their own? Is it because the Tory party will only be putting forward remainers for re-election, is it a genuine protest against TM? Is it all a contrived process to split the Eurosceptic vote between UKIP and the Brexit Party? Farage has consistently dismantled UKIP since he left. Something isn't quite making sense yet. The Brexit party is subscriber based, no policies, no manifesto, the logo is almost Tory blue, came out of nowhere, has gained massive support in a very short timeframe, has MSM support and looks to be 'Tory lite', suspicious is not the word.

 

Atilla

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18,760 2,615
You are suspicious and much like the rest of the nation who knows what is really going on?

It seems to me like headless chickens running in all directions and you are trying to observe order and some form of control in all these shenanigans.

Is Farage the main cock in the hen yard or really just a mad hungry fox? There is the possibility of having more than one cock too.


I'm with you on this one. No idea what's coming next. One big mess. o_Oo_Oo_O


Looking forward to Farage improving democracy and dismantling HoLs next. :eek:
 
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counter_violent

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It's all jolly good fun eh wot!

The un- knight in shining armour is a plain speaking, no nonsense, representative of the people and we know he will get the votes for a whole raft of reasons.

Politics has never been so interesting, given that there are splinter candidates and groups who are shaking everything up. They are the political equivalent of the business phenominon............. Disruptors.............
 
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