Brexit and the Consequences

Pat494

Legendary member
13,780 1,388
Let me give you the benefit of age and wisdom.
There are 2 options :-
1. All out and negotiations can begin to be in Interpol. the science club etc. We can at least make trade deals with the other 170 odd countries and not have bossy Brussels telling us we are sort of half in and can't. They can't comprehend that the EU is finished without us contributing billions annually to pay for their losers.
2. All in and we can have some peace and quiet for a few years while they cook up the Fourth Reich.
 

Atilla

Legendary member
19,039 2,679
I’ve got it you work for the Saudis
Att you’re in safe hands
Let me give you the benefit of age and wisdom.
There are 2 options :-
1. All out and negotiations can begin to be in Interpol. the science club etc. We can at least make trade deals with the other 170 odd countries and not have bossy Brussels telling us we are sort of half in and can't. They can't comprehend that the EU is finished without us contributing billions annually to pay for their losers.
2. All in and we can have some peace and quiet for a few years while they cook up the Fourth Reich.

1. We already have trade deals with the rest of the world via our EU agreements. This means, UK being part of a bigger block we have more bargaining power.

What makes you think UK can do better on her own? Is there anything you can show to demonstrate UK's ability to do deals with odd countries?

What you would like to do, how much it would cost and what would the benefits be?

Also, you need to demonstrate how that would outweigh losing our trade agreement with the rest of the 27 member states of the EU? What are Brexiteers trying to achieve over and above what we currently have? Alternatively, what is it that you want to trade with the odd countries you can't trade now?

You might then be able to make an informed decision on where the interest of the nation lies.

It would be good if you can outline your migration policies and how they may be different wrt these new agreements as well. For foreign companies to setup production in the UK will entail movement of staff who may need to relocate.

You should also think about trade dispute settlement rules and laws. Having bilateral trade agreements with the 170 odd different countries will need an independent judicial body. All those rules, regulations and laws will need to be managed as distinct agreements. All 170 of them. What do you think that will cost the government and different businesses to negotiate those rules, regulations and laws?

Easiest trade agreement in the World indeed are just words. Sound good though, don't it?

Of course, there is WTO the lazy non thinking man's get out of jail card for doing naff all.


2. Your second point much like your first is just a wild guess, shot in the dark. I could be wrong, but what evidence do you have for suggesting such a thing. I would argue it is UK who is hell bent with her military, over throwing elected governments in the name of national interest.

Libya's kicking off again. What should UK do? Stay the hell out of the power struggle and then reach agreement with who ever wins imo. Will of the people and all that? (y)
 

Pat494

Legendary member
13,780 1,388
Some good ponts Attila but as I understand it after Brexit the UK will be able to do business anywhere even with the EU and penalties. The EU has to understandably protect its own market.
If I were PM I would canvas the EU for fundamental changes such as Merkel's nutty immigration policies. But as all 27 have to agree how likely is that. Maybe 75% agreement ?
Corruption in the EU is another area a lot needs doing. The auditors refuse to sign the books of such a 3rd world scandal and the commiissioners do next to nothing. I seem to remember they appointed Neil Kinnock who achieved nothing. They have locked themselves into a nightmare that may be difficult to evolve. When their money runs dry they might just wake up.
 
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Atilla

Legendary member
19,039 2,679
Some good ponts Attila but as I understand it after Brexit the UK will be able to do business anywhere even with the EU and penalties. The EU has to understandably protect its own market.
If I were PM I would canvas the EU for fundamental changes such as Merkel's nutty immigration policies. But as all 27 have to agree how likely is that. Maybe 75% agreement ?
Corruption in the EU is another area a lot needs doing. The auditors refuse to sign the books of such a 3rd world scandal and the commiissioners do next to nothing. I seem to remember they appointed Neil Kinnock who achieved nothing. They have locked themselves into a nightmare that may be difficult to eveolve. When their money runs dry they might just wake up.

Yes agreed Pat, EU is not perfect and UK imo missed an opportunity to manipulate EU towards her way of thinking in all this refugee crises and I'm sure many of the other smaller and bigger states would have backed her against Merkel and Germany's pov. I really genuinely believe we missed a great opportunity to get one over Germany as even inside Germany there would ahve been much support for the UK's position. The ERG are a bunch of wet Etonite ill bred, over hyped, obnoxious gits imo. They want UK to be like Switzerland or Berlize, safe haven for money. EU was even thinking of adopting English as the their defacto language.

Eurosceptics have a lot to answer for.

With respect to corruption it's the same ol tosh. Our MPs and their duck ponds not much different. What you have to consider is that is money within the family ie EU so to speak. As long as it doesn't leak out side the EU to other countries, it's ok. Not as bad as money being spent on foreign produced cars, gadgets and anything else that comes in from outside the block. ie Protection of our industries. Money remains in the common market and we all get to be richer as one persons expenditure is another persons income. We are all in the same wash rinse clean repeat cycle as long as EU remains a high disposable income block with high living standards.

As before it is all the tax havens and loop holes that make the UK poorer. EU countries and if you ever visit Germany you'll see are streets ahead of us. Clean cities, well maintained properties. Low crime. High living standards.

Tories forever cutting regional aid grants and taxes and social services are the root cause of our current predicament. Including ofcourse their squabbling in-party Eurosceptic power struggles. ie ERG. What a daft name. European Research Group. What research?

It pains me to see most people in the UK can not see this. They - the tories are the biggest risk facing the UK Nation right now. I can not emphasise that enough. Beware of what Brexiteers are wishing for with closed eyes. AND that's an educated informed opinion - dare I say it. Brexit was a high impact risk in my projects. Risks are now materialising and turning into issues that will require resource to address them. That means burning money for non-productive output. Some people call it planning. You know a bit like Governments' plans for Brexit.


Finally an interesting point someone mentioned on Sky News. ERG now left with three choices. I can't remember the exact way it was put but those choices are what they least like as all three are stuff they don't want. A bit like, what would you like for supper sir; excrement, urine or vomit. All choices are merde.
 
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Pat494

Legendary member
13,780 1,388
There is another point I would like to make besides the EU needing our billions to support their losers is that they desperately need some British ideas about democracy and moderation. The continentals it should be pointed out have been susceptible to rushing into political and moral extremism that has paid off really badly for themselves and others. This may seem an almost irrelevant point but in reality it is an extremely important one to avoid World Wars and ghastly revolutions.
 

Signalcalc

Veteren member
3,668 769
Yes agreed Pat, EU is not perfect and UK imo missed an opportunity to manipulate EU towards her way of thinking in all this refugee crises and I'm sure many of the other smaller and bigger states would have backed her against Merkel and Germany's pov. I really genuinely believe we missed a great opportunity to get one over Germany as even inside Germany there would ahve been much support for the UK's position. The ERG are a bunch of wet Etonite ill bred, over hyped, obnoxious gits imo. They want UK to be like Switzerland or Berlize, safe haven for money. EU was even thinking of adopting English as the their defacto language.

Eurosceptics have a lot to answer for.

With respect to corruption it's the same ol tosh. Our MPs and their duck ponds not much different. What you have to consider is that is money within the family ie EU so to speak. As long as it doesn't leak out side the EU to other countries, it's ok. Not as bad as money being spent on foreign produced cars, gadgets and anything else that comes in from outside the block. ie Protection of our industries. Money remains in the common market and we all get to be richer as one persons expenditure is another persons income. We are all in the same wash rinse clean repeat cycle as long as EU remains a high disposable income block with high living standards.

As before it is all the tax havens and loop holes that make the UK poorer. EU countries and if you ever visit Germany you'll see are streets ahead of us. Clean cities, well maintained properties. Low crime. High living standards.

Tories forever cutting regional aid grants and taxes and social services are the root cause of our current predicament. Including ofcourse their squabbling in-party Eurosceptic power struggles. ie ERG. What a daft name. European Research Group. What research?

It pains me to see most people in the UK can not see this. They - the tories are the biggest risk facing the UK Nation right now. I can not emphasise that enough. Beware of what Brexiteers are wishing for with closed eyes. AND that's an educated informed opinion - dare I say it. Brexit was a high impact risk in my projects. Risks are now materialising and turning into issues that will require resource to address them. That means burning money for non-productive output. Some people call it planning. You know a bit like Governments' plans for Brexit.


Finally an interesting point someone mentioned on Sky News. ERG now left with three choices. I can't remember the exact way it was put but those choices are what they least like as all three are stuff they don't want. A bit like, what would you like for supper sir; excrement, urine or vomit. All choices are merde.
It would be interesting to see your assertions backed with some sort of evidence, thus far you are talking tosh.

Let’s have some evidence based discussion rather than your rambling rubbish?
 

Atilla

Legendary member
19,039 2,679
It would be interesting to see your assertions backed with some sort of evidence, thus far you are talking tosh.

Let’s have some evidence based discussion rather than your rambling rubbish?

SC you are a class act.

That's exactly what I was after. Brexiteers to put the evidence forward to backup their promises ideas and all that larky about we can do this and that tosh, if we close our eyes and simply wish hard. :D Good one (y)

I always liked Go West :)

Special effects on this video clip is just simply extra terrestrial.
 

Signalcalc

Veteren member
3,668 769
Yes agreed Pat, EU is not perfect and UK imo missed an opportunity to manipulate EU towards her way of thinking in all this refugee crises and I'm sure many of the other smaller and bigger states would have backed her against Merkel and Germany's pov. I really genuinely believe we missed a great opportunity to get one over Germany as even inside Germany there would ahve been much support for the UK's position. The ERG are a bunch of wet Etonite ill bred, over hyped, obnoxious gits imo. They want UK to be like Switzerland or Berlize, safe haven for money. EU was even thinking of adopting English as the their defacto language.

Eurosceptics have a lot to answer for.
So what was Cameron doing pre-referendum, the EU did not yield to anything. What has the last 3 years proven? That the EU is intractable and listens to no-one but their own unelected leadership.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1077932/brexit-news-david-cameron-eu-referendum-nicholas-sarkozy-francois-hollande

With respect to corruption it's the same ol tosh. Our MPs and their duck ponds not much different. What you have to consider is that is money within the family ie EU so to speak. As long as it doesn't leak out side the EU to other countries, it's ok. Not as bad as money being spent on foreign produced cars, gadgets and anything else that comes in from outside the block. ie Protection of our industries. Money remains in the common market and we all get to be richer as one persons expenditure is another persons income. We are all in the same wash rinse clean repeat cycle as long as EU remains a high disposable income block with high living standards.
Rubbish, UK corruption is nothing compared to EU corruption.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26014387

https://bnn-news.com/european-commission-scale-corruption-eu-incredible-109466

https://www.politico.eu/article/corruption-costs-eu-990-billion-year-rand-study-fraud-funding/


As before it is all the tax havens and loop holes that make the UK poorer. EU countries and if you ever visit Germany you'll see are streets ahead of us. Clean cities, well maintained properties. Low crime. High living standards.

Tories forever cutting regional aid grants and taxes and social services are the root cause of our current predicament. Including ofcourse their squabbling in-party Eurosceptic power struggles. ie ERG. What a daft name. European Research Group. What research?
What current predicament are we talking about?

It pains me to see most people in the UK can not see this. They - the tories are the biggest risk facing the UK Nation right now. I can not emphasise that enough. Beware of what Brexiteers are wishing for with closed eyes. AND that's an educated informed opinion - dare I say it. Brexit was a high impact risk in my projects. Risks are now materialising and turning into issues that will require resource to address them. That means burning money for non-productive output. Some people call it planning. You know a bit like Governments' plans for Brexit.
I agree Tories are high risk, Labour are higher risk, LibDems even higher, we need new politicians, new faces, new ideas, the current crop are stale, lying, deceitful idiots.

Finally an interesting point someone mentioned on Sky News. ERG now left with three choices. I can't remember the exact way it was put but those choices are what they least like as all three are stuff they don't want. A bit like, what would you like for supper sir; excrement, urine or vomit. All choices are merde.
We should have had Brexiteers in charge from the beginning, ascertained very early on that the EU wasn't going to give us what we want and left on WTO, simples really.
 

Signalcalc

Veteren member
3,668 769
SC you are a class act.

That's exactly what I was after. Brexiteers to put the evidence forward to backup their promises ideas and all that larky about we can do this and that tosh, if we close our eyes and simply wish hard. :D Good one (y)

I always liked Go West :)

Special effects on this video clip is just simply extra terrestrial.
As usual I have to do all your searching for you, I don't want to start thinking for you as well, so have a read instead.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3983/britain_really_would_be_better_off_out_of_the_eu

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3613669/The-SEVEN-reasons-d-better-outside-EU-former-HSBC-chief-says-Britain-regain-control-City.html
 

Signalcalc

Veteren member
3,668 769

Signalcalc

Veteren member
3,668 769
It would be good if you can outline your migration policies and how they may be different wrt these new agreements as well. For foreign companies to setup production in the UK will entail movement of staff who may need to relocate.
Is that your migration policy? Pathetic!

You should also think about trade dispute settlement rules and laws. Having bilateral trade agreements with the 170 odd different countries will need an independent judicial body. All those rules, regulations and laws will need to be managed as distinct agreements. All 170 of them. What do you think that will cost the government and different businesses to negotiate those rules, regulations and laws?
What and we already don't have thousands of civil servants dealing with the ECJ? What's the difference?

Easiest trade agreement in the World indeed are just words. Sound good though, don't it?
Of course, there is WTO the lazy non thinking man's get out of jail card for doing naff all.
Sounds easier than the nightmare EU rules we need to conform to.


2. Your second point much like your first is just a wild guess, shot in the dark. I could be wrong, but what evidence do you have for suggesting such a thing. I would argue it is UK who is hell bent with her military, over throwing elected governments in the name of national interest.

Libya's kicking off again. What should UK do? Stay the hell out of the power struggle and then reach agreement with who ever wins imo. Will of the people and all that? (y)
The EU needs our military to implement it's military strategy, do you really think that UK, France, Germany are acting outside of EU military authority?

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2017/05/19/eu-combined-military-hq-launched-within-days/
 

Pat494

Legendary member
13,780 1,388
I agree it is a big expense for zilch in return to meddle in Libyan affairs.
But out clueless politicians probably will support the losing side for more refugees.
 

Atilla

Legendary member
19,039 2,679

SC it's difficult to know which of your links to respond to but here is a quick attempt.

The SEVEN reasons we'd be better off outside the EU, by former HSBC chief who says Britain must regain control over the City
  • Michael Geoghegan laid out seven reasons why there should be a Brexit
  • He said leaving the EU would enable Britain to regain power over taxation
  • Geoghegan claimed Remaining could mean multi-billion-pound tax raids

Well being an ex-banker and with EU plans to place a small tax on bank transactions to reclaim some of the billions of £s paid to banks by tax payers is only fair imo. EU is right.

Are you aware of what is being debated here. Bank excess profits will be hit and bonuses ultimately affected. These utterly filthy dirty stinking rich bankers who get 1500 times the lower paid in their banks will see their numeration fall somewhat.

IF UK needs these poor souls to be numerated so they don't leave us, all well and good. I think otherwise.

By the way that line about UK gaining power over taxation is indication on lower corporation tax and more profits for them to receive higher bonuses.

On one side Brexiteers go on about UK being London centric and then you promote this bankers perspective. Leaves me speechless.


THE SEVEN REASONS IN FULL
1. Taking back control of our financial sector - rubbish. Bank sector trying to remain in EU.
2. The UK parliament retains sovereignty over taxes - you know where this is going anti transaction tax
3. More UK influence on international bodies - more rubbish. See what Heseltine says his on the ball. Ex Secretary of State and deputy PM to Maggie. He knows about UK's position on international stage.
4. Promoting the City as a truly global centre - How exactly by reducing corporation tax and turning us into a small safe haven London centric dark economy.
5. Empowering the Bank of England - BoE is independent. How will they be powered. No explanation here. Need more info on what his thinking.
6. Better financial sector regulation - Really? UK joined at the hip with US. 2008 crises clearly exposed us for our self regulation practices. Utter tosh.
7. We will be better prepared for the next euro-crisis - Euro is not in crises. Saying it doesn't make it so. PIGS alive well and kicking. EU has better insulation against external global shocks than the UK.
 
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Atilla

Legendary member
19,039 2,679
Here's another one of Att's space cadet theories debunked.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/7339/brexit_into_outer_space
20% of ESA is funded by EU. Once the satelites are up you need to think about the standards rules and regulations that will follow to implement new consumer products from unmanned cars, busses and trains to drones and umpteen new devices that will no doubt be invented.

It will then be important for us to be sitting at the head of the table determining standards inside EU not outside imo.

Need to look at the bigger picture with a longer time frame.

Article says - After Brexit, our market will no longer end at the boundaries of continental Europe. Nor will EU's market end at the boundaries of Europe. What's the point? You think the international consortium of nations going to let UK take technology they are party to and do what ever UK wants? No change so the write up is making assertions without clearly laying out what they are?

More wishful thinking we can do this and that.


What is universally accepted is that there aren't many countries who can embark on investment to spend on building satellites, or their very own aeroplane. UK I'm afraid is not one of them. Anyone who thinks UK can go it alone in these high tech sectors and win is deluding them selves.
 
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