Brexit and the Consequences

timsk

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. . . If Bercow stays strong, there won't be a MV3. -> No Deal -> No extension -> No Vote -> No Deal!
Impeccable logic hhiusa, but you're overlooking one incy wincy teeny weeny little detail. Namely, that Mrs. May, Bercow and the majority of MPs won't accept no-deal under any circumstances and will avoid it at all costs. That Includes resigning, and gawd knows very few of them have the necessary humility and integrity to do that!
Tim.
 
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counter_violent

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Impeccable logic hhiusa, but you're overlooking one incy wincy teeny weeny little detail. Namely, that Mrs. May, Bercow and the majority of MPs won't accept no-deal under any circumstances and will avoid it at all costs. That Includes resigning, and gawd knows very few of them have the necessary humility and integrity to do that!
Tim.
It is already written into law that unless a withdrawal agreement is passed by parliament, then the UK will leave with No Deal.
It doesn't matter a jot what politicians vote against. It's irrelevant that they voted against a No Deal exit.
 
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hhiusa

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Impeccable logic hhiusa, but you're overlooking one incy wincy teeny weeny little detail. Namely, that Mrs. May, Bercow and the majority of MPs won't accept no-deal under any circumstances and will avoid it at all costs. That Includes resigning, and gawd knows very few of them have the necessary humility and integrity to do that!
Tim.
You are right as well except for one “incy weency” big issue: it doesn’t matter what MPs want; it’s already law.
EU Withdrawal Act 2017

No if‘s and‘s or but’s, if they sit on their hands as Bercow is forcing, they will crash out.

EU president thinks he can force the UK into submission by giving them a false dilemma of pass the deal or the end is nigh.

Parliament cannot legally vote on MV2 simply by calling it MV3.
A rose by any other name is still a rose.

since parliament is stalemated, it seems like it’ll be unlikely that they can repeal the EU Withdrawal Act as is necessary.

In short, if there is no extension and no repeal, the UK will Brexit.
 

timsk

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It is already written into law that unless a withdrawal agreement is passed by parliament, then the UK will leave with No Deal.
It doesn't matter a jot what politicians vote against. It's irrelevant that they voted against a No Deal exit.
You are right as well except for one “incy weency” big issue: it doesn’t matter what MPs want; it’s already law.
EU Withdrawal Act 2017 . . .
Yes, yes, yes indeed gentlemen, I'm well aware of all that. But let's be honest, when it comes right down to it, one way or another, the political elite can get around all of those issues. They have the will and they can hire in the brains. The bottom line (underneath your bottom lines) is that whilst we might wish for the conclusion you each outline, there's a snowball's chance in hell of it actually happening. I look forward to eating my hat! ;-)
Tim.
 
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hhiusa

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Yes, yes, yes indeed gentlemen, I'm well aware of all that. But let's be honest, when it comes right down to it, one way or another, the political elite can get around all of those issues. They have the will and they can hire in the brains. The bottom line (underneath your bottom lines) is that whilst we might wish for the conclusion you each outline, there's a snowball's chance in hell of it actually happening. I look forward to eating my hat! ;-)
Tim.
Is the thought process really “laws schmaws who cares?”

You think people-MPs (which MPs & how) will rip up the EU Withdrawal Act, revoke Article 50, oust May, install new PM in time for the 29th.

correct me if I’m wrong, but I just don’t see a feasible way around the no deal except to pass MV2. Tusk said UK must pass “deal as it is”. MV3 isn’t just disallowed by Bercow it’s disallowed by Tusk.

Now you’re saying that somehow they will all come together for my substantially new deal, ratify it before Brexit date, appease Tusk, get around Bercow ...

I am desperate to understand the reasoning behind “the powers-that-be will find a way”. Who are the powers that be?
 

hhiusa

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Does anybody else think that house speaker Bercow’s voice is really annoying?
“Orduh!, Orduh!” it is supposed to be pronounced “Order, Order”
So much for Queen’s English! He puts the cow in Bercow.
 

counter_violent

Legendary member
9,598 2,439
Is the thought process really “laws schmaws who cares?”

You think people-MPs (which MPs & how) will rip up the EU Withdrawal Act, revoke Article 50, oust May, install new PM in time for the 29th.

correct me if I’m wrong, but I just don’t see a feasible way around the no deal except to pass MV2. Tusk said UK must pass “deal as it is”. MV3 isn’t just disallowed by Bercow it’s disallowed by Tusk.

Now you’re saying that somehow they will all come together for my substantially new deal, ratify it before Brexit date, appease Tusk, get around Bercow ...

I am desperate to understand the reasoning behind “the powers-that-be will find a way”. Who are the powers that be?
The powers that be lost any right to dictate policy when they asked the people and lost the referendum.
Remainers still think that our politicians hold the power, which ordinarily they do, but on the Brexit issue they do not. This is why they are making a complete hash of Brexit, because they know that the game is up and that they are powerless to go up against the people. Boy o boy do they not like this loss of control.
 
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Atilla

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Nonsense.

Get ready for new leadership elections. (y)
 

hhiusa

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it is hilarious that some people— A few fries short of a Happy Meal—are talking about revoking article 50!

wakey wakey
revoking article 50 will do you no good without repealing the Brexit law.
 
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Atilla

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Tory MPs vow to quit party if Boris Johnson becomes leader!

Boris becoming leader???? If that comes to be then I'll join you Tim in that hat eating party of yours. :)
 
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timsk

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. . . I am desperate to understand the reasoning behind “the powers-that-be will find a way”. Who are the powers that be?
Hi hhiusa,
You're understanding of British politics strikes me as being excellent. Even so, I suspect you might be making a very reasonable - albeit very false - assumption about what's happening which could account for why your impeccable logic is flawed. Namely, you might (and I stress might) assume that we have a democracy here in the U.K. I used to think that prior to Brexit, so it's entirely understandable if you think that too. Sadly, and I really do mean sadly, the Brexit process has stripped away that veil - that illusion - to reveal how parliamentary democracy really works. Or, to be more accurate, doesn't work. There's a kind of irony here in that it's the same reason leavers voted for Brexit in the first place. Leavers came to the conclusion that the EU was fundamentally undemocratic, but it's come as something as a shock to many of us to discover that the UK is every bit as bad. Maybe I'm just an ol' cynic or simply a bit naive. Or both.
Tim.
 
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counter_violent

Legendary member
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Tory MPs vow to quit party if Boris Johnson becomes leader!

Boris becoming leader???? If that comes to be then I'll join you Tim in that hat eating party of yours. :)
Boris will not become leader. You can take that to the bank.

If May leaves or is ousted, then I strongly suspect Dominic Raab will be the next leader.
 

0007

Senior member
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Tory MPs vow to quit party if Boris Johnson becomes leader!

Boris becoming leader???? If that comes to be then I'll join you Tim in that hat eating party of yours. :)
Many MPs don't like Boris, but out in the country where in the new order of things votes may in the future count for something, Boris is a vote puller. Didn't Boris and the red bus help swing the last important vote that we had? And didn't Boris win 2 terms as Mayor of London? The Establishment didn't like the Donald either did they?
 

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