Brexit and the Consequences

NVP

Legendary member
36,875 1,900
Absolutely, Neil, and the chaos comes from a lack of leadership within the Government and the Conservative party.
sadly yes.......for many of us Brexit has broken many bonds of trust or favour we had for the major parties....forever
 

Atilla

Legendary member
19,097 2,701
100% agree..........in reality when we got the results 2 years ago every MP who believed in Remain should have resigned and stepped down for a brexit MP .....I didnt want that to happen but would have accepted this as how can they really do their job if they dont agree fundamentally with the countries decision ?

but to lose all that power and prestige and income ? ..........no way hosea !!!

N

my feeling is that a significant % of MPs voted for remain ......all leaving would have made it very interesting !

Strongly disagree with this viewpoint and Tim's previous comments.

Crux of the issue is clearly a poorly thought out and exercised referendum. One very big bad decision and you clearly highlight a MAJOR problem with Brexiteers who think they have a carte blanche cheque to do as they will based on a slim majority.

I was thinking of speaking to Sir Peter Bottomley as he voted for the deal which I strongly disagree with. So here we are 48% of the country to be represented by the likes of him and Farage. I just heard Farage say Parliament doesn't represent the people. Which people is he talking about. Preposterous ignorance.

Parliament clearly reflects the people. For you two to suggest such a thing along with his ilk is just fool hardy. Where will debate or balance come from if there is no opposition. All hard brexiteers agreeing with each other you say. That is a horrific suggestion if you extend it forward.

So who will people vote for if they disagree? Wait till end of what 4 year term and vote for who? Who's voice will we hear.


I think Brexiteers need to get a grip that this whole fiasco is one big headache and clear for me to see in the hands of some very extreme and dangerous people based on how you two very genuine and nice people who have been hood winked in to talking about stuff which not even remotely resembling any form of democracy. (n):mad:(n)
 

Signalcalc

Veteren member
3,964 850
Strongly disagree with this viewpoint and Tim's previous comments.

Crux of the issue is clearly a poorly thought out and exercised referendum. One very big bad decision and you clearly highlight a MAJOR problem with Brexiteers who think they have a carte blanche cheque to do as they will based on a slim majority.

I was thinking of speaking to Sir Peter Bottomley as he voted for the deal which I strongly disagree with. So here we are 48% of the country to be represented by the likes of him and Farage. I just heard Farage say Parliament doesn't represent the people. Which people is he talking about. Preposterous ignorance.

Parliament clearly reflects the people. For you two to suggest such a thing along with his ilk is just fool hardy. Where will debate or balance come from if there is no opposition. All hard brexiteers agreeing with each other you say. That is a horrific suggestion if you extend it forward.

So who will people vote for if they disagree? Wait till end of what 4 year term and vote for who? Who's voice will we hear.


I think Brexiteers need to get a grip that this whole fiasco is one big headache and clear for me to see in the hands of some very extreme and dangerous people based on how you two very genuine and nice people who have been hood winked in to talking about stuff which not even remotely resembling any form of democracy. (n):mad:(n)
I have difficulty finding where the argument is in this?
 

Signalcalc

Veteren member
3,964 850
If all the remainer MPs give up their positions for Brexiteer MPs who is going to represent the 48%?
There only needs to be 52% to be representative.
 

Atilla

Legendary member
19,097 2,701
There only needs to be 52% to be representative.
So you okay with remain MPs to give up their positions for Brexiteers in the name democracy?

Brexiteers mixing up an advisory very poorly thought out and drafted referendum with MPs elected to parliament.

Do you not see just how wrong what Brexiteers are trying to portray as democracy is? Especially, in the light of such an important decision with long term ramifications on such ill thought out no end destination considered other than Brexit means Brexit what ever that means?
 

timsk

Legendary member
7,122 1,897
. . . I think Brexiteers need to get a grip that this whole fiasco is one big headache and clear for me to see in the hands of some very extreme and dangerous people based on how you two very genuine and nice people who have been hood winked in to talking about stuff which not even remotely resembling any form of democracy. (n):mad:(n)
Hi At',
I won't respond to your points individually but, collectively, by disagreeing with my post you are saying in effect that you think it's perfectly acceptable for MPs to:
1. Take control of the government process.
2. Agree to a manifesto pledge in order to gain election and then do something completely different when in office.
Those were the two points I made in my last post and if that's your idea of democracy - then I pray for the sake of the country that you never go into politics!

I do agree with you that this whole fiasco is in the hands of "some very extreme and dangerous people". Said extreme and dangerous people are those MPs who have zero humility and zero probity who, for example, vote for Article 50 one day and then take no-deal off the table the next. Or vote against taking no-deal off the table and then stand up at the dispatch box and say no-deal would be a disaster (Philip Hammond take note). 'Go figure' is the American expression that springs to mind. The democracy that I talk about is very simple and centres around the long established custom of MPs living up to their title and behaving honourably. That so few of them adhere to this is the prime reason why we're in this mess. The situation is now so bad, that the charlatans that you support (e.g. Sir Vince Cable) have even managed to hoodwink you and half the country into believing that the few MPs who are behaving honourably by sticking to the pledges they made in the referendum and two general elections - are the extreme and dangerous people. Talk about hypocrisy and the pot calling the kettle black - unbelievable! I'm sorry to say At', if either of us has been hoodwinked, it is you and not me.
Tim.
 
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counter_violent

Legendary member
9,793 2,517
Hi At',
I won't respond to your points individually but, collectively, by disagreeing with my post you are saying in effect that you think it's perfectly acceptable for MPs to:
1. Take control of the government process.
2. Agree to a manifesto pledge in order to gain election and then do something completely different when in office.
Those were the two points I made in my last post and if that's your idea of democracy - then I pray for the sake of the country that you never go into politics!

I do agree with you that this whole fiasco is in the hands of "some very extreme and dangerous people". Said extreme and dangerous people are those MPs who have zero humility and zero probity who, for example, vote for Article 50 one day and then take no-deal off the table the next. Or vote against taking no-deal off the table and then stand up at the dispatch box and say no-deal would be a disaster (Philip Hammond take note). 'Go figure' is the American expression that springs to mind. The democracy that I talk about is very simple and centres around the long established custom of MPs living up to their title and behaving honourably. That so few of them adhere to this is the prime reason why we're in this mess. The situation is now so bad, that the charlatans that you support (e.g. Sir Vince Cable) have even managed to hoodwink you and half the country into believing that the few MPs who are behaving honourably by sticking to the pledges they made in the referendum and two general elections - are the extreme and dangerous people. Talk about hypocrisy and the pot calling the kettle black - unbelievable! I'm sorry to say At', if either of us has been hoodwinked, it is you and not me.
Tim.
Yes but Att is simply grasping at straws and twisting the position, like most remainers. We can't blame them for taking those positions.
The position we find ourselves in has been engineered by the establishment and enacted by weak leadership, quite probably deliberately. But not to worry, this is one battle that will not go away, indeed I think escalation is on the cards.
Nigel puts forward an interesting scenario as to why the EU should kick us out without a deal before the May European elections. We could become a right pain in the arse for the EU project should we still be represented in the EU parliament.

https://www.westmonster.com/nigel-european-council-should-veto-article-50-extension/
 

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