Brexit and the Consequences

[Signalcalc]

"Parliament get to dictate to the people! That's not how parliament is supposed to work"

 

[Atilla]

Yep! It looks like the Remainers have clocked up a tactical victory – didn't hear much from Gina Miller's lot when John Major prorogued parliament for his own political purposes. We all know this is about Parliamentary democracy being used as a proxy for Remain.

General election is the only way forward yet Parliament has already refused to allow it to happen. If Boris resigns then Comrade Corbyn will be wanting to install himself as "caretaker" Prime Minister– and we all know what that will lead to.

It's ironic that the court has upheld the rights of Parliament but of course has nothing to say (because it wasn't asked) about Parliament's refusal to enact the laws it had passed with respect to Brexit together with a Speaker who has openly flaunted the constitution for his own political ends. MPs that gain election on a manifesto, directly refuse to implement it and even go in the opposite direction are hypocritical and unworthy of anybody's trust. I hope the electorate see it that way also.

This rotten, stinking Parliament needs to go.

It is difficult to debate anything with some Brexiteers. Amazing! Absolutely amazing!

Reminds me of Trump referring to anything he didn't like as fake news.

Anything that remotely highlights negative aspects of Brexit then it is some kind of establishment versus the people plot.

Hopeless tosh.

Not a bad approach. Can see how it appeals to simple-minded numpties.

 

[Atilla]

Blundering blond bafoon has no freaking idea.

Embarrassment to UK, Parliament and any decent mind with half an ounce of intelligence.

Plonker BJ disagrees with the Supreme Court. Who is he to disagree? LOL

Bringing our institutions into disrepute. It's like UK has become some Brexiteers wild wild west show with no law or order.

Are we to be led by such Brexiteers interpretation of what is law?


I really do think he should resign. Guy has no shame honour or any civility. Has no majority. Lied to the Queen. Taking country into the abyss. Spends tax payers money on trash.

Blundering bafoon is too good for him.

He is simply a self entitled POS.

 

[timsk]

Hi At',
You seem a might tetchy which surprises me as most remoaners are dancing in the streets thinking they've won the battle. However, as far as I can see, nothing has really changed. Be that as it may . . .

. . . Plonker BJ disagrees with the Supreme Court. Who is he to disagree? . . .

Why shouldn't he disagree - he's entitled to his opinion isn't he? I disagree: the justices arrived at their judgement on a political issue they ought not to have been judging.

. . . Are we to be led by such Brexiteers interpretation of what is law?. . .

The thing I find odd is that BoJo has, apparently, broken the law and yet I've not seen any coverage from any political commentator or legal expert who can explain precisely which law has been broken. Do you know?

. . .Lied to the Queen. . .

The justices haven't said that and there's nothing I've heard to suggest he did this. Again, if you know different - please provide your source.
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

It is difficult to debate anything with some Brexiteers. Amazing! Absolutely amazing!

Reminds me of Trump referring to anything he didn't like as fake news.

Anything that remotely highlights negative aspects of Brexit then it is some kind of establishment versus the people plot.

Hopeless tosh.

Not a bad approach. Can see how it appeals to simple-minded numpties.

Simple minded numpties have you over the metaphorical barrel. We all know what happens next!

Opposition parties normally would be tabling a no confidence vote in the Govt and calling for a General Election. They won't do this of course because they are all petrified of the likely result.

Brexiters simply need to bide their time and continue provoking the Remoaners, and the EU.
When the election finally comes it will be fought as "people v establishment"

The people always win out eventually.

 

[Signalcalc]

Blundering blond bafoon has no freaking idea.

Embarrassment to UK, Parliament and any decent mind with half an ounce of intelligence.

Plonker BJ disagrees with the Supreme Court. Who is he to disagree? LOL

Bringing our institutions into disrepute. It's like UK has become some Brexiteers wild wild west show with no law or order.

Are we to be led by such Brexiteers interpretation of what is law?


I really do think he should resign. Guy has no shame honour or any civility. Has no majority. Lied to the Queen. Taking country into the abyss. Spends tax payers money on trash.

View attachment 267697



Blundering bafoon is too good for him.

He is simply a self entitled POS.

I see remoaners have lost the argument again, why do you feel the need to resort to slurs to make your point? Is it because you have no substance and therefore no argument.

Remoaners lost the argument and have to resort to the judiciary to sort out their political woes, what a disgrace. As Timsk has asked, which law has been broken?

 

[Signalcalc]

Simple minded numpties have you over the metaphorical barrel. We all know what happens next!

Opposition parties normally would be tabling a no confidence vote in the Govt and calling for a General Election. They won't do this of course because they are all petrified of the likely result.

Brexiters simply need to bide their time and continue provoking the Remoaners, and the EU.
When the election finally comes it will be fought as "people v establishment"

The people always win out eventually.

You gotta laugh at the remoaners, they think we're numpties, as if we didn't know what they think

"The people who have worked for the last three years to thwart the referendum result and who are afraid to call a vote of no confidence because they’d have to face the electorate, are calling it a victory for democracy, as if they expect to be taken seriously"

 

[barjon]

......Why shouldn't he disagree - he's entitled to his opinion isn't he? I disagree: the justices arrived at their judgement on a political issue they ought not to have been judging......


Tim.

Glad to hear that, Tim. Maybe some of your brexiteer colleagues need to remember that when erstwhile remainers express their continued view that leaving is wrong and even more so with “no deal”. Not much chance though I expect the “remoaner” insults will continue to fly.

 

[Signalcalc]

Here's my theory on how this will play out now:

1. Boris comes back from the EU with a deal, could be reheated May deal could be a best in class deal, it won't matter as it won't be voted for by remoaners who don't want to leave at all. Boris does not ask for an extension, we exit the EU on the 31st October and there are law suits all over to try and reverse Article 50, calling it 'unlawful', as those court cases are progressing there is a general election, parliament becomes majority leave, court cases are nullified by acts of parliament, we are out for good. Remoaners and media continue in hysterical meltdown. Plenty of new acts are passed to ban the courts from taking part in political decisions and the BBC is commercialised.

2. Boris comes back from the EU without a deal and does not ask for an extension, we exit the EU on the 31st October and there are law suits all over to try and reverse Article 50, calling it 'unlawful', as those court cases are progressing there is a general election, parliament becomes majority leave, court cases are nullified by acts of parliament, we are out for good. Remoaners and media continue in hysterical meltdown. Plenty of new acts are passed to ban the courts from taking part in political decisions and the BBC is commercialised.

Just call me Dominic Cummings master strategist.

 

[Atilla]

I see remoaners have lost the argument again, why do you feel the need to resort to slurs to make your point? Is it because you have no substance and therefore no argument.

Remoaners lost the argument and have to resort to the judiciary to sort out their political woes, what a disgrace. As Timsk has asked, which law has been broken?

Supreme Court: Where does defeat leave Boris Johnson?

Before everything gets swept up in a force 10 political storm, stop for a moment to think about what has just happened.

www.bbc.co.uk

The highest court in the land has just ruled that the serving prime minister broke the law. He gave the Queen advice that was unlawful.

Therefore his decision to suspend Parliament was also against the law, so is now null and void.

 

[Signalcalc]

Supreme Court: Where does defeat leave Boris Johnson?

Before everything gets swept up in a force 10 political storm, stop for a moment to think about what has just happened.

www.bbc.co.uk

The highest court in the land has just ruled that the serving prime minister broke the law. He gave the Queen advice that was unlawful.

Therefore his decision to suspend Parliament was also against the law, so is now null and void.

Try answering the question?

 

[timsk]

Hi Jon,

Glad to hear that, Tim. Maybe some of your brexiteer colleagues need to remember that when erstwhile remainers express their continued view that leaving is wrong and even more so with “no deal”.

Expressing the view that leave voters have made a mistake and that remaining in the EU is in the best interests of the country is entirely fair and reasonable. Indeed, if required, I would take up arms to defend the rights of those who wish to express it. However, doing everything possible to overturn and nullify the largest vote in British political history is another matter entirely. That's not an opinion to which they're entitled; it's an affront to democracy which must be challenged robustly at every opportunity.

Not much chance though I expect the “remoaner” insults will continue to fly.

I've been at pains - on T2W and elsewhere - to distinguish between the vast majority of remain voters who accept the referendum result and those who voted the same way but, seemingly, will stop at nothing to overturn it. Remainers accept democracy while remaoners don't: out of respect to legitimate remainers it's necessary to distinguish between the two. And, if you self-identify as a remoaner (according to my definition) and find it insulting, just think how you might feel if you'd been accused of being stupid, bigoted, racist and xenophobic pretty much every day for the last three years! Remoaners really have nothing to complain about when it comes to hurling insults, as that is the one (only?) arena in the whole Brexit debate that they dominate completely.
Tim.

 

[0007]

Timsk has rightly identified the great majority of people who voted remain, are decent people with a legitimate point of view but nevertheless accept the democratic outcome of the vote. The problem is with the "Remoaners" – a powerful, vociferous (and not always directly identifiable) group that doesn't acknowledge democracy and tries all means fair & foul to subvert our politics for their own ends. Despite their supposedly superior intellect etc etc they seem to have missed the point that outside the "Westminster Bubble", they've been rumbled by the electorate in general who now increasingly see the political shenanigans as a fight between People and Establishment.

The Remoaners are playing into the hands of Boris (and Nigel) who will capitalise on the People vs Establishment argument and portray themselves as the underdog fighting for the rights of the people – the British have an inbuilt tendency to support the underdog. It is becoming apparent that many people see the Supreme Court intervention as an invasion of political territory outside their sensible jurisdiction and rightly or wrongly, interpret this as another encounter of Establishment vs the People.

Even now – the Remoaners still just don't get it and continue with their acts of desperation against the inevitable slaughter they will suffer in the fast approaching general election. Bring it on!

 

[barjon]

Here's my theory on how this will play out now:

1. Boris comes back from the EU with a deal, could be reheated May deal could be a best in class deal, it won't matter as it won't be voted for by remoaners who don't want to leave at all. Boris does not ask for an extension, we exit the EU on the 31st October and there are law suits all over to try and reverse Article 50, calling it 'unlawful', as those court cases are progressing there is a general election, parliament becomes majority leave, court cases are nullified by acts of parliament, we are out for good. Remoaners and media continue in hysterical meltdown. Plenty of new acts are passed to ban the courts from taking part in political decisions and the BBC is commercialised.

2. Boris comes back from the EU without a deal and does not ask for an extension, we exit the EU on the 31st October and there are law suits all over to try and reverse Article 50, calling it 'unlawful', as those court cases are progressing there is a general election, parliament becomes majority leave, court cases are nullified by acts of parliament, we are out for good. Remoaners and media continue in hysterical meltdown. Plenty of new acts are passed to ban the courts from taking part in political decisions and the BBC is commercialised.

Just call me Dominic Cummings master strategist.

Hi Jon,

Expressing the view that leave voters have made a mistake and that remaining in the EU is in the best interests of the country is entirely fair and reasonable. Indeed, if required, I would take up arms to defend the rights of those who wish to express it. However, doing everything possible to overturn and nullify the largest vote in British political history is another matter entirely. That's not an opinion to which they're entitled; it's an affront to democracy which must be challenged robustly at every opportunity.

I've been at pains - on T2W and elsewhere - to distinguish between the vast majority of remain voters who accept the referendum result and those who voted the same way but, seemingly, will stop at nothing to overturn it. Remainers accept democracy while remaoners don't: out of respect to legitimate remainers it's necessary to distinguish between the two. And, if you self-identify as a remoaner (according to my definition) and find it insulting, just think how you might feel if you'd been accused of being stupid, bigoted, racist and xenophobic pretty much every day for the last three years! Remoaners really have nothing to complain about when it comes to hurling insults, as that is the one (only?) arena in the whole Brexit debate that they dominate completely.
Tim.

Tim,

Well who are these remoaners then?

Just let’s recap. The referendum result was to leave but left it to parliament to decide the how and when. So far as I know the majority in Parliament accepted the leave result but cannot agree on the “how”except to say that “no deal” is unacceptable. That may be seen as thwarting the referendum result by the hard liners who are quite happy with “no deal”, but it seems quite reasonable to me.

It thus behoves the administration to come up with an acceptable solution and it is no answer just to ignore parliamentary democracy (which is our system - not government by referendum) and plough on towards a “no deal” exit. Without a majority - and making matters worse by removing the whip from 21 party supporters - there is no real answer other than to seek a mandate from the country for their approach. Given the shackles of fixed term parliament and in the absence of sufficient votes for a general election it seems that only a further referendum asking whether “no deal” is acceptable or not can clear the impasse unless one is prepared for the administration to behave as a dictatorship.

My own view is that you can’t keep praying the referendum result in aid as a justification for ignoring parliamentary democracy since the result was “leave” not “leave with no deal”. It’s all very sad but maybe Boris will pull a deal rabbit out of the hat, although it seems unlikely..

 

[Signalcalc]

It thus behoves the administration to come up with an acceptable solution and it is no answer just to ignore parliamentary democracy (which is our system - not government by referendum) and plough on towards a “no deal” exit. Without a majority - and making matters worse by removing the whip from 21 party supporters - there is no real answer other than to seek a mandate from the country for their approach. Given the shackles of fixed term parliament and in the absence of sufficient votes for a general election it seems that only a further referendum asking whether “no deal” is acceptable or not can clear the impasse unless one is prepared for the administration to behave as a dictatorship.

The problem with a referendum is that no-one will be able to decide what the questions are to be. The only real way to implement Brexit is to call a general election, change the make-up of parliament and then parliament can then vote with a majority to leave, deal or no-deal (in fact the deal scenario is non existent, there is no deal that the EU will accept that will enable the UK to leave the EU, no-deal is left as the only realistic option). Parliamentary Remoaners are just wasting all our time delaying this process, it is a one way street to exit the EU, regardless of the process beforehand.

If a general election is called and the make-up of parliament does not change because the electorate didn't vote that way, then another referendum can be called, which can then be implemented by Parliament remoaners, it's the only way this shambles is going to be resolved.

However remoaners won't call a general election, for obvious reasons, they think they will lose control of the remoan process and we will have Brexit.

There's not much mystery to all this, it's pretty clear and obvious as we have had 3 1/2 years to understand who the players are and what they are up to.

 

[Signalcalc]

Also bear in mind a snap general election can be called within 6 weeks, a referendum will take around 9 months to prepare following a decision on the questions to be asked, making a referendum more unpalatable than it already is.

Simply put: vote Tory/BP get Brexit, vote illibundem get remain, vote Labour and you don't know what you're going to get!

 

[Signalcalc]

Supreme Court: Where does defeat leave Boris Johnson?

Before everything gets swept up in a force 10 political storm, stop for a moment to think about what has just happened.

www.bbc.co.uk

The highest court in the land has just ruled that the serving prime minister broke the law. He gave the Queen advice that was unlawful.

Therefore his decision to suspend Parliament was also against the law, so is now null and void.

So we have the answer from the Attorney General - the supreme court has just created a new law, a law that can be applied to any future prorogation, the standard and precedent has been set, removing power from the PM and the Queen and bringing the decision making into the courts.

What is interesting is that the supreme court was established by Tony Blair in 2009, I wonder why?

 

[Signalcalc]

Looks like remoaners will push for a new law to compel Boris to ask for an extension to Art.50 earlier than the EU summit, talk about tying the hands of negotiation, nothing less can be expected from the low standards of remoaners.

 

[Signalcalc]

Layla Moran MP of the illibundems has just contradicted the position of the illibundems by stating they would support a deal if a referendum condition was attached to it (with remain on the ballot), WTF, they have just flipflopped faster than Labour, sheesh!

 

[Signalcalc]

My guess now is an extension will be forced with a general election in December.