The Journey from the Basement

[harryp]

And they persist in using thought processes that work for everything else but not for this profession.The polite and intelligent ones work at it. The dunces, I had better not start...

Have you considered that it is the polite ones, the members who post responses to your stories, who are the dunces.

I find the meaning in your stories obvious but you dimiss me as a dunce because in my first post on this thread I had the temerity to offer an alternative view on volume analysis. I'm sure there are many traders, like myself, who read this thread but can't be bothered to respond because of the way you run the show.

You have a good "product" here , it is unfortunate that you market it so badly.

 

[TheBramble]

Have you considered that it is the polite ones, the members who post responses to your stories, who are the dunces.

Harry, I think this is the point Rognvald makes above.

Perhaps the contributors are the only ones who don’t know?

It would be a real pity if people were put off of coming forward on this thread because of issues of personal style. I'm up for trying anything different which is of interest. This thread has taken an unusual and unexpected turn and one I personally find of great interest.

While I admit my initial automatic ego response to Socrates' style did cause a 'bristle' or two...if you can just 'let go' for a bit and maintain an dispassionate and objective awareness of what's going on - there's something to learn. There's certainly nothing to lose...

Of course, for a lot of traders this will not be anything like what they're on these boards for - and that's fine too.

Harry, I know you have the background and the experience and very possibly one of the few who really know - so you might want to consider contributing again.

In any system, the element with the greatest flexibility controls the system.

 

[bracke]

I am not a Dunce in general terms but maybe in trading terms but I am someone who dosen't know ( yes I appreciate the double meaning )

I have been pondering the dangers of interpretation. It has the danger of locking us into a given mindset which as I understand it is the opposite of what this thread is about. SOCRATES has the experience and skill to interpret and understand in a continuous flow which enables him to stay with the fluidity of the markets. I do not and I suspect that many of the visitors to this thread also do not..

When I read the animal lessons I can assign a number of market elements to the characters and a number of trading similies to the events described and as a result could perm a number of interpretations, any of which might apply. I am wary of doing so because I wish to avoid locking myself into a particular view because I know once taken there is the likelyhood that I may be reluctant to let go.

Many of the interpretations ( or at least part of them ) suggested by posters appear to be valid, they may not be the one SOCRATES had in mind but that does not mean they are not of use.

No one has complete and exact mastery of interpretation if they did their trading would be correct every time. So rather than adopting a particular interpretation should we not be considering the various alternatives. I fully appreciate that SOCRATES is taking us from the basement and we cannot run before we can walk but I do think that our ability to be open minded and aware of alternatives is important.

Regards

bracke

 

[barjon]

mmm, as I have reflected on the animal lessons I have realised that many of the interpretations, although valid as just said by bracke, have concerned themselves with the periphery rather than the kernel of the lesson. And/or they have tried to draw "kernel" conclusions from the incidental peripherals.

In market terms Socrates has created a lot of "noise" in his stories and that noise has made it difficult to identify the trend and/or major moves.

 

[SOCRATES]

My Reply

Have you considered that it is the polite ones, the members who post responses to your stories, who are the dunces.

I find the meaning in your stories obvious but you dimiss me as a dunce because in my first post on this thread I had the temerity to offer an alternative view on volume analysis. I'm sure there are many traders, like myself, who read this thread but can't be bothered to respond because of the way you run the show.

You have a good "product" here , it is unfortunate that you market it so badly.

My reply to you is in 3 parts:~

1. You imply that the polite ones etc., are the dunces. This is not correct.
The dunces are the ones who interrupt with nonsense .
I will remind you of your own posts in this respect. This discussion is not
for everyone, you need to have a very high level of awareness of yourself
and a genuine desire to progress in order to keep up. Post number 1274 #
of this thread is a typical example of your inabilty to keep up with the discussion.
This is your fault not ours.

2.If you find the meaning in the stories obvious we would all be very pleased to hear
what realisations they stimulate you to have, if any.
In your first post on this thread you did not offer any alternative view on volume analysis.
You simply made a statement, and then never accepted the challenge to back it up, sorry.
I do not run any show. This is not a show. This is a discussion about darksiding at the
highest level between people who are interested in progressing in this topic. A show
as you call it , is something very different.

3. I do not have any product. Name the product that I have please. I am not doing any
marketing. I am not offering anything, not Investment Advice, nor Literature, nor Recordings,
nor Tuition, nor any other Service or Goods which are obtainable on payment of a fee, of any sort whether in money or in kind.

What I am doing, against my better judgement is responding to your ill thought out statements.
That is all.

 

[Skimbleshanks]

This thread has been split from the No Indicators Revisited thread, and is devoted to Socrates' animal stories and the quest to raise ourselves from the Basement to the higher levels of trading.

This thread is NOT to be used for debate - it is solely for those who are prepared to respond in an educated and respectful way to the questions posed by Socrates as part of our education in these rarified arts.

TAKE NOTE: ANYONE WHO DISRUPTS THIS THREAD by comments which are deemed by me or any other Mod to be rude, personal, aggressive, antagonistic or stupid WILL BE BANNED, initially for one week, as will those who use alternate nicks. Please heed this warning - two have already been banned.

It has taken me four hours, so far, to carry out the task of splitting the thread, and there will be a few posts which may have inadventently been missed, together with post references which will need to be altered. But I'm just too cross-eyed to do it now, and will try and address these issues in the next couple of days.

 

[ford]

I'd like to say thanks Skimbleshanks, as you have slaved away into the early hours of the morning in re-organising this excellent collection of lessons produced by a very seasoned and gifted trader, for the benefit of the readership. It's very admirable of you.

 

[Quercus]

And I second that Fordy.
Perhaps I should have been recruited, to assist in the arduous task. Being in an opposite timezone so to speak!
Well done Skim!

 

[Naz]

Skim,

I appreciate the work that you've put into splitting the thread.I can also understand why you say that anyone who makes rude,personal,aggressive,antagonistic or stupid remarks will be banned,however this has not been the case in the past,with only the very worst being banned.

There has been some fierce debates on some of the threads with all comments good and bad being left for all to see.I just wonder if this rule will be implemented rather stronger on this thread than any of the others.

 

[barjon]

Skim

Can I add my thanks and appreciation. Looks like you might need to spend another 4 hours deleting all the thank you posts

jon

 

[Rognvald]

Good Morning fellow thinkers,
The skies have cleared and the storms have blown away. You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. Kapheneion* Socrates has reopened its doors and we are the first patrons. Lets make sure its atmosphere befits this open university. "Knowledge and opinion are not the same thing."

* a hint - where might you buy a good omelette?:cheesy:

 

[tradesmart]

Good work Skim – appreciated by many I’m sure……

Just one question – this thread has been created in Socrates name on the assumption/presumption that he will continue with “the journey” where he left off….

Has anyone checked that he is in agreement with all this…….?!

 

[ivorm]

Excellent stuff , Skim !

Splitting the thread will have all sorts of advantages and, like many others, I appreciate the hard work you have done in achieving this . I haven't contributed (yet) but have ben avidly reading the posts - and, I hope , slowly learning the arts of the darkside. So a big thank you, too, to Socrates for the effort he has put in.

Regards,

 

[firehorse]

Skim,

I would like to add my thanks to your hard work in splitting the thread up.

Even if Socrates decides never to post again (what might happen in the future ), we've already had some valuable thought provoking lessons/discussions (profits ) which is at least collected together for the benefit of future people to see.

Many thanks

 

[SOCRATES]

I am in the middle of a "Op" to be completed soon by what I can see in the price action,
will come back when finished.

 

[bracke]

SOCRATES

Is there any chance you can start posting again so we can get back to the task in hand.
Thank you in advance....positive thinking always helps.
EDIT Crossed in the post and thank you Skimbleshanks for you efforts.

Regards

bracke

 

[dc2000]

Hi Chaps can I just clarify is it only socrates that can post animal stories and analogies or are others allowed ?

[Mods edit: read this post http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showpost.php?p=114058&postcount=547 ]

 

[SOCRATES]

Ok, I am back.
First of all I want to thank Skim and all the others involved behind the scenes for your continued support and encouragement. Special thanks to Skim for two reasons, firstly you succeeded in persuading me to continue as I was really getting fed up and secondly for the sterling task you have carried out here in splitting the thread and the weeding out you have done.

Let us begin:~

This thread will be devoted to assist darksiders in their quest to develop the correct mindset.
There are two main criteria. The first is to have the right character.
The second is to go about creating a new persona exclusively to deal with trading and nothing else.
This is a long and extremely painful journey if you try and do it on your own.
It took me 7 years to develop and another 4 to perfect.
However I had to find out lots of things, many of them did not make sense. I did not think it possible,
but I persisted in cultivating certain mental habits, and slowly I began to take more control of the
problems that had previously beset me that I found insurmountble and to begin to find solutions.
Then I found that these problems were not problems you could select and singly identify. No, they
displayed characteristics that can only be described as perverse. This is because I began to clock
that all these problems are clustered in groups and these groups belong to families, This means
that what appears to be an unconnected problem with one expeienced earlier is most likely to be part of the same family. This is very difficult to deal with, because this is a situation in which the problem
itself "does not want to be solved". The problem has an inbuilt mechanism "a booby trap" that prevents
the victim from being able to pin it, deal with it, and solve it , and this is horrendous, like suffering from and infection due to a virus which is resistant to treatment, so that the symptoms dissappear for a while and then suddenly reappear with renewed venom. These are some of the things we are going to address in this thread as a series of discussions. There is a lot to do.

 

[SOCRATES]

The Animal Lessons were written not to entertain you as if you were children, but to create oblique triggers in your thinking. I will explain. The subconscious mind contains the sum total of all our
experiences, and these are stored in a jumble.
This happens because they do not occur in a structured sequence.
If they did, it would be very easy to access these experiences and the associated thoughts attached to them. But, because all these experiences and thoughts are jumbled, it makes is more difficult to consciously regurgitate the relevant cameos as independent units to use as a template with which to
evaluate and compare other things.
Then it means that the subconcsious mind has to be coaxed or even tricked into cooperating in this way.

There is a second problem and that is to do with the persona. In the persona there is an inbuilt mechanism whose function it is to preserve life, i.e., this is the urge to stay aliive, the "survival urge".
This subconscious urge creates the nuisance that it interferes with our thinking. It prevents us from
accessing thoughts stored in the subconscious which it deems threatening to the preservation of life,
and in fact booby traps them to ensure we do not tinker with them.

You can now begin to understand that I had to teach myself a sort of mental bomb disposal series of
techniques in order to be able to identify, access, and defuse / deactivate each of these before they could be introduced and planted in the new persona, that is the the new persona needed for trading.

 

[ChartMan]

I should like to add my thanks to Skim for her work and to Socrates for his continued efforts. As a side issue and from a point of equilibrium, those that may wish to debate any issues raised on this thread , or make other comments are more than welcome to open a new thread elsewhere. This will ensure that this thread stays on topic and contains only relevant posts.
CM.