The Journey from the Basement

[ChartMan]

I think not, 333. How can hypnosis bring out something that is not in your subconscious? This 11 years is acquired knowledge.

 

[SOCRATES]

Hello 333, the answer is negative, because the correct route is through having realisations which
cause you to do certain things, and for you to be able to stop doing certain other things that are OK
for ordinary life but not for trading.

When I talk of trading I don't just mean buying and selling. I mean coming to terms with the market by first coming to terms with yourself. but it may be the case that hypnosis may help in assisting to regress to a point in time to pinpoint the origin of a particular problem and in dealing with it.

But because the persona carries not only problems but the sum total of life experiences then it would require that the entire subconscious database be wiped. You probably would end up with a cabbage, if this could be done. And this is not a good idea.

The idea that works is the creation of a separate persona, step by step, bit by bit.

 

[SOCRATES]

Chartman the problem is that the persona has a defence mechanism created to preserve life.
A lot of the "components" are embedded in the subconcious.

 

[SOCRATES]

Many of these components can be re arranged to suit the persona suitable for trading.
I will rephrase it - The persona has many components embedded in the subconscious that can be
rearranged to make the new persona created a suitable persona to deal with trading, but trading only.

 

[SOCRATES]

Ah ! Sorry 333 it can be reduced from 11 to about 6. 4 in exceptional cases, but not below 4.
It took me 11 because I had to pioneer it and progress test it on myself, huge task.

 

[Trader333]

The answers are as I had thought to be honest but it is something that I was interested in hearing a little more about so thanks for the replies.


Paul

 

[SOCRATES]

But relative to 586 above hypnosis does not come into it .
The time can be shortened if the candidate is ready for
development and not otherwise, so this is also to be
considered.

 

[a320]

When the neophyte enters a path , they are concerned with speeding up the natural development to control the double we all have inside ourselves, as Socrates eludes to.

I like the german term Doppleganger, this dark double which so closely resembles the host is very different. The host ie, the healthy human side, usually full of creative energies, capable of happiness, warm keen to help others ect..ect. The Doppleganger has none of these human qualities, no warmth or joy because in effect its a remnant of a much older stream of human development, its now something of an interloper almost parasitic.

But the doppleganger is intensely intelligent, it seeks out that which reflects its own darker nature. Perfect for the trading world, which is infested with these dopplegangers.

The techniques in developing the "Self " takes a great deal of effort & time. If rushed it can easily degenerate into Egolism , the self centred illusion-ism which deflects the end goal of encountering the doppleganger , enslaving it & most difficult of all ..using it with succumbing to it.

Well done Skim for the effort involved in splitting the thread.

 

[SOCRATES]

When the neophyte enters a path , they are concerned with speeding up the natural development to control the double we all have inside ourselves, as Socrates eludes to.

I like the german term Doppleganger, this dark double which so closely resembles the host is very different. The host ie, the healthy human side, usually full of creative energies, capable of happiness, warm keen to help others ect..ect. The Doppleganger has none of these human qualities, no warmth or joy because in effect its a remnant of a much older stream of human development, its now something of an interloper almost parasitic.

But the doppleganger is intensely intelligent, it seeks out that which reflects its own darker nature. Perfect for the trading world, which is infested with these dopplegangers.

The techniques in developing the "Self " takes a great deal of effort & time. If rushed it can easily degenerate into Egolism , the self centred illusion-ism which deflects the end goal of encountering the doppleganger , enslaving it & most difficult of all ..using it with succumbing to it.

Well done Skim for the effort involved in splitting the thread.

I wish it were as easy as that.

 

[a320]

I wish it were as easy as that.

I know I'm only just scratching the surface, my mystic stills are not the best I admit....
Michael Maier's Atalanta Fugiens would be far clear to expand on what I'm trying to convey

 

[SOCRATES]

You are funny 320, there is nothing mystical about all of this,
except it involves 10% inspiration and the 90% perspiration.

 

[Glenn]

Glenn and Socrates,

I have a question based on Glenn's post # 565 of 30th June 2004 at 11.17am where a lady had hypnosis to address an issue that had affected her whole life up to the point where she received treatment and became normal after around 6 weeks

Socrates has stated that he has taken 7 + 4 years to reach a point where he has the right persona and mindset appropriate to being a successful trader. Now it is clear that hypnosis can program the subconscious directly and therefore there may be an opportunity for those who wish to develop the right persona and mindset to use this as a way of doing so.

My question is would it be possible through hypnosis to reduce this 11 years to a much shorter timeframe and if so by how much ?


Paul

Hi Paul
"My question is would it be possible through hypnosis to reduce this 11 years to a much shorter timeframe and if so by how much ?"

Another view.
My wife thinks that the answer is yes. However there are no clinical studies in respect of traders that she is aware of to back this up. She has just suggested a pilot study, if only initially to improve powers of concentration and correct response for trading purposes. I wonder who the guinea pig might be ....

Because the subconscious is logical and black and white, the required trading persona would appear to be a good fit and relatively straightforward to 'programme' and to develop the abiilty to switch it on and off.
However the therapeutic approach would be very specialised.
To quote a slightly glib example from my wife in the kitchen an hour ago:
"If a genie gave you 3 wishes and the first thing you asked for was to be rich, you may well become a Mafia Boss." In other words there are consequences which would require careful handling.
Therefore it could not be done by self-hypnosis, it would need another party. [No I am not trying to sell my wifes services ]

Timescale - I can only quote timescales from mental health cases. Typically 18 months of therapy on the psychiatrists couch would be boiled down to maybe 6 sessions of ~2 hours using this type of hypnotherapy.

Not everyone is suited to this type of hypnotherapy. I devised a feedback questionairre for my wife's practice and that showed a 70% success rate.
The 30% were basically those who did not trust. They were unable to give themselves completely. That is fundamental to allowing access.

That's all for the time being. There may be more to come on this angle, or it may lead nowhere. I'll try to get her to read the thread and then review her thoughts, all of which will take some time.
Glenn

 

[a320]

You are funny 320, there is nothing mystical about all of this,
except it involves 10% inspiration and the 90% perspiration.

Now I'm a little disappointed... from a Magus.

Not to worry.

CJ

 

[Two Bars]

...a pilot study, if only initially to improve powers of concentration correct response for trading purposes

I thought that LACK of powers of concentration ~ in other words letting go entirely ~ is one of the requirements we're aiming for. Socrates will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[TheBramble]

I thought that LACK of powers of concentration ~ in other words letting go entirely ~ is one of the requirements we're aiming for. Socrates will correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm sure Socrates will. But where did you get that idea from? From what I've got so far, undivided attention and complete focus are very much a part of the trading persona.

The 'letting go' I have attributed to the aspects of our humanity that we need to subtract in order to arrive at a suitable trading persona.

 

[SOCRATES]

I thought that LACK of powers of concentration ~ in other words letting go entirely ~ is one of the requirements we're aiming for. Socrates will correct me if I'm wrong.

No, because the dilemma is to concentrate and be very alert yet completely relaxed.
You cannot be relaxed if you are anxious. The root cause of this anxiety in traders is
not related to the market, but related to a deep worry about how they are going to handle
themselves in the event of a crisis, or, if the outcome they expect is not the one they get.

 

[Rognvald]

Socrates
I have been reading through my notes on the thread and wonder of you would care to expand on this quote from your #559
"but I persisted in cultivating certain mental habits, and slowly I began to take more control of the problems that had previously beset me that I found insurmountable and to begin to find solutions."
What sort of mental habits please

 

[dc2000]

Socrates may I ask how you would describe your trading style is it intraday scalping, longer term trend following or buy and hold investing?

 

[Rognvald]

Use of Post links in replies (off topic but useful in long threads like this)
btw if anyone wants to transfer post links from a word document as I have previously decribed as in #598 above and which I think is very useful if any cross referencing and answering goes on they must use the wysiwyg text editor by pressing the "Post Reply" button rather than using the "Quick Reply". The quick reply does not pick up the html link but the editor does

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates
I have been reading through my notes on the thread and wonder of you would care to expand on this quote from your #559
"but I persisted in cultivating certain mental habits, and slowly I began to take more control of the problems that had previously beset me that I found insurmountable and to begin to find solutions."
What sort of mental habits please

It is best to deal with this the other way round.
In order to cultivate the mental habits required for consistently successful trading,
the ordinary mental habits we acquire during the course of ordinary daily life are
the ones we must dispense with for the purpose of trading. As I have touched on
before, these mental habits work in ordinary life but not for the purpose of trading.
This does not mean we have to abandon all our habits in favour of new habits.

What we must do is to create new habits for this purpose, only and for nothing else.
These new habits are an integral part of a trader's mindset. The mindset cannot be
put in place in the absence of the trading persona because , if instead of doing so,
they are put in place in the ordinary persona, as a consequence of the inabilities
of the ordinary persona then these habits will become corrupted or altered or
misused or destroyed.

The mission "is" to acquire new habits that contravene all the rule sets that the ordinary persona has acquired as a result of life experiences.For this reason a new persona has to be created first to prevent new habits being corrupted and rendered unreliable or useless. therefore what is required is that this is dealt with in its correct sequential priority.

The persona has to be created first.This persona is taught new habits. These new habits become part of the tools the new persona uses via its mindset. Now you can see that because the new persona and the original are segregated the new habits are ring fenced and prevented from being corrupted.

Therefore discussion on habits is premature as we do not want them becoming damaged before they can be used. So you are not to talk of new habits because of the risks I describe above.

This is why traders try hard to acquire new habits and fail to stick to them. The persona steps in and tries to protect life and ruins the excercise, leaving the trader baffled and frustrated and unable to solve it , and what is worse not knowing why it cannot be solved.

This leads to serial trading which is dire.