The Journey from the Basement

Status
Not open for further replies.

SOCRATES

Veteren member
4,966 136
From the Moderators:

PLEASE READ THIS - and heed the warning

This thread is devoted to Socrates' allegories relating to trader psychology, which combine to help raise advanced traders from the basement to the rarified levels of trading attained by very few. This thread forms part of the 'dark arts' of trading using just price and volume bars (no indicators or signals), and on this thread the practitioners of price and volume are referred to as 'darksiders'.

This thread is NOT to be used for debate, nor for posting your opinions of the style/manner in which this thread is formed - it is solely for those who are prepared to respond in a respectful and educated manner to the allegories and experiences posed by Socrates.

Debate and opinions can be posted on 8,000 threads on these boards but NOT on this thread nor the No Indicators Revisited thread.

TAKE NOTE:
ANYONE WHO DISRUPTS THIS THREAD by making repeated comment which is deemed by any Mod to be unfit (including but not limited to being rude, personal, aggressive, highly opinionated, egotistical, antagonistic, pointless or stupid) WILL BE BANNED, initially for one week (and extended for any further violation including use of duplicate nicks), and/or their POSTS WILL BE REMOVED without further reference to the poster.

Regrettably this has had to be stated as there are a handful of posters on these boards who have neither the manners nor the respect to allow other traders to share their valuable knowledge with others in posts on this thread, and on the No Indicators Revisted thread, without being attacked.


##################################################
##################################################
##################################################




## ANIMAL LESSON NUMBER ONE ## FIRST PART:~

Dear Frugi,

Ok, I understand your difficulty.
Let us create a model.
The model we will create will be a simple one whose function will be to illustrate a point.
Supposing we find ourselves in the jungle, in Brazil, and we are lucky to see the twig bird in action.
This is most likely to be the sequence of events.
The twig bird flies in with a very thin twig in its beak. It lands on a decaying tree trunk lying on its side, in a clearing. It finds a little hole in which there is a worm. It prods the worm with the twig.

The worm recoils and hides deeper in the hole. The bird persists. The worm moves from the first hole to another hole because underneath is a honecomb of tunnels the worms have burrowed. The bird drops the twig and flies away. Is this a failure ? No .

The bird returns and lands on the same spot., with a larger, but shorrter twig in its beak.
It puts its attention on the same hole as before. It picks up the thin twig in its beak. it proceeds to prod the same worm again. The worm squirms and migrates.

The bird observes this and uses the larger twig to plug a potential exit. It prods again using the thin twig. The worm squirms and migrates in another direction.The bird flies off again.

This time the bird has two twigs in its beak, both fat and short. The two fat twigs are laid down on the tree trunk. The bird once again picks up the thin twig and begins to prod. The worm squirms.

The bird chooses a hole to plug and plugs it. This process of prodding and plugging is continued until the worm is forced to come out of the only available hole that is not plugged
The bird has a very long beak, like a kingfisher. It plucks the worm and flies away with it.

Now sir, what I have explained to you above is a parallel model of what happened with the bars.
The last bar was dropped down just sufficiently to trigger the stop, this winkled out the targeted instrument in a similar way that the worm was winkled out of the hole.
If you do not still understand it I am willing to explain it again until you do.

CONTINUED ON #6
 
Last edited:

china white

Established member
979 12
just noticed - a bird in brasil - sounds like me love life...... :)

LOL what exactly r u implying Socrates? :) she winkled me out of my hole? :)

shall i go back to good essex ones preying round in the likes of China White night clubs? :)
 

SOCRATES

Veteren member
4,966 136
china white said:
just noticed - a bird in brasil - sounds like me love life...... :)

LOL what exactly r u implying Socrates? :) she winkled me out of my hole? :)

shall i go back to good essex ones preying round in the likes of China White night clubs? :)

No, ha! ha! what I am implying........is that illustrating a concept using parables......is an effecive method of passing on knowledge....without disturbing that which must not be disturbed.
Do you now get my drift, China ?
 

SOCRATES

Veteren member
4,966 136
Oh ! And by the way, have you all noticed how the Court Jester has not appeared for a long time, I do wish he would come out and do a pirouette or something entertaining to break the monotony of seriousness. The Principal Court Jester, that is. Gone quiet....
 

bracke

Experienced member
1,286 12
Perhaps he is wary of getting his head chopped off.

Regards

bracke
 

SOCRATES

Veteren member
4,966 136
The Story of The Twig Bird Contnued.....ANIMAL LESSON NUMBER ONE ~ CONTINUED
FROM #1

Now Frugi,

The Twig Bird, having flown away to it's nest, and fed its chicks with the worm it has just caught,
"remembers" that there are more worms to be had, as the log just does not have one hole, you see,
the log is peppered with holes. Some of these holes will be occupied by worms and others will be empty.
It is now up to the Twig Bird, who has a family to feed, to find out how many worms there are and whether chey can be got. for the purpose of feeding. The purpose of feeding is different to the concept of food, this is an important point to grab. Food is incidental, whereas feeding is systematic, Bramble pay attention.
The bird is very clever because it able to remember the route it has to take also so as not to fly into danger.
In a jungle not every creature is inoffensive. There are some very nasty ones about with evil intentions, some through laziness, others through greed, others through hope, others are poisonous and so on.
We are observers of all this, and we are impartial, and not only that, but also we are able to come and go as we wish. All the creatures that inhabit the jungle are condemned to live there all the time and have to compete to to survive. We can go home and lock the doors, and draw the curtains, and feel safe. But I digress.....Now the Twig Bird goes back to the log and it sees there is a Wart Hog sniffing there, the Wart Hog is only sniffing for Mushrooms, but the Twig Bird does not feel safe in approaching. So it perches on a branch some small distance away and observes the Wart Hog to calculate if it is safe to proceed.
The Wart Hog becomes distracted and wanders off in another direction.Now the Twig Bird spots the opportunity to land on the tree trunk unmolested and with minimum fo risk because the Twig Bird is very astute. The Twig Bird warbles. This is to see if anyone of any consequence to its safety is around, there is no response, although not far away there is a big snake, but it is coiled up under a tree, having a snooze.
When the Twig Bird is satisfied that it is not being watched, that what it is about to do is not understood, and thet there are no other Twig Birds about to compete, It swiftly repeats the operation of the thin twig,
the prodding, the plugging and the plucking, and flies off again as quickly as it can back to its hungry chicks that need feeding, and so the cycle is repeated until no more worms are left. When there are no worms left this particular log all the worms have been lifted. The value of the lifted worms is enhanced in terms of the amount of effort required to find more. One could say that the Jungle Price of edible worms has gone up.
 
Last edited:

neil

Legendary member
5,167 749
Then the "Prescott" bird ( Hasn't an original thought in its' head), saw the last foray of the twig Bird, and tells it's pals that there is easy food at the old tree stump. A big flurry of interest ensues as they all fight to get access to the log. The volume of noise and activity increases sharply as more "Prescotts" flock to the log.

If you had a volume meter the needle would spike up sharply.

Suddenly, it dawns upon the greedy feeders that there are no more worms. The "Prescott" bird and his pals have expended much energy for no real gain. They fly off as suddenly as they arrived, still hungry. The noise meter registers a sudden drop off in activity and noise.

But some hang around thinking that it will be easier to hunt now that many have flown away. They wait and wait but are forced, due to lack of food, to eventually leave and find food elsewhere.

The Twig Bird has not forgotten the log but waits for it to be re-colonized by worms, such worms are not likely to ignore a useful souce of habitat and food.Eventually the log becomes home to many worms, enough to make it worthwhile for the Twig Bird to return for another series of feeds. He is cautious and does not advertise its' presence to the "Prescott" gang.

Eventually the "Prescott", who has several homes and can transport himself by more than one means, notices the steady coming and going of the Twig Bird and decides to get in on the action. As before, the added attention of the Prescott gang creates a feeding frenzy sending noise levels spiking off the meter.

But Twig Bird is not worried, it knows it has eaten the last worm, and flies off to new feeding sites, putting the present log on its' watch list to begin the cycle all over again.

Apologies to Socrates
 

SOCRATES

Veteren member
4,966 136
The Twig Bird continued

neil said:
Then the "Prescott" bird ( Hasn't an original thought in its' head), saw the last foray of the twig Bird, and tells it's pals that there is easy food at the old tree stump. A big flurry of interest ensues as they all fight to get access to the log. The volume of noise and activity increases sharply as more "Prescotts" flock to the log.

If you had a volume meter the needle would spike up sharply.

Suddenly, it dawns upon the greedy feeders that there are no more worms. The "Prescott" bird and his pals have expended much energy for no real gain. They fly off as suddenly as they arrived, still hungry. The noise meter registers a sudden drop off in activity and noise.

But some hang around thinking that it will be easier to hunt now that many have flown away. They wait and wait but are forced, due to lack of food, to eventually leave and find food elsewhere.

The Twig Bird has not forgotten the log but waits for it to be re-colonized by worms, such worms are not likely to ignore a useful souce of habitat and food.Eventually the log becomes home to many worms, enough to make it worthwhile for the Twig Bird to return for another series of feeds. He is cautious and does not advertise its' presence to the "Prescott" gang.

Eventually the "Prescott", who has several homes and can transport himself by more than one means, notices the steady coming and going of the Twig Bird and decides to get in on the action. As before, the added attention of the Prescott gang creates a feeding frenzy sending noise levels spiking off the meter.

But Twig Bird is not worried, it knows it has eaten the last worm, and flies off to new feeding sites, putting the present log on its' watch list to begin the cycle all over again.

Apologies to Socrates

Neil, that is perfectly right, let us tell the story in sequence otherwise if it is out of sequence the audience will be baffled. The object is to "enlighten" using allegory, in sequence, do you get my drift, wihtout letting cats out of bags. And you and I know perfectly well what it is we are talking about but this is not for everyone, and I have been taught bitter lessons that I have learnt and therefore do not repeat blunders. And the 4 observers in the gallery are watching
quiet as mice, but we can see you ! LOL.
 
Last edited:

Rognvald

Established member
916 15
ok -been spotted again - (twitcher) - the Harry Potter cloak isn't working (again)

I see the picture parable with an Andean perspective and view it as condors seeing carrion from a great height and distance away. Very often it is not the actual carrion that the condor sees but the sight of another condor (who is always under observation) descending towards carrion or towards another condor descending towards carrion. Whatever! The point I would like to add is that after the big birds have fed there is usually enough for the smaller birds to have their fill. Indeed it is often that the carrion is discovered by the smaller birds who start to feed and the condors are then attracted and chase them off. The smaller birds withdraw to a safe distance and return to feed on small crumbs when when their safety is not compromised.

I hope this does not cloud the picture or waste space or time as we are talking in bird/hunter metaphors just now.
 
Last edited:

neil

Legendary member
5,167 749
nul point

Sorry Rognvald,
Don't take this as a personal criticism, but you have simply muddied the waters.
I will not enlarge on my comment since I would be trespassing on the domain of Socrates.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: pelt

SOCRATES

Veteren member
4,966 136
Very good neil, keep quiet please, I have got the crib, I know you know so don't spoil it. You all have to wait for the next instalment in the story, to be followed soon, written in allegorical form to protect that which has to be protected. You see how I have tried elsewhere in other ways and it is misunderstood and ridiculed by the dunces. Now we all know what it is we are talking about., and if we face real difficulties that would seriously threaten our interest we will resort to communicating by relocating to an alternative theatre parallel with private messaging.
 

Rognvald

Established member
916 15
not at all neil - if you want to tell me why you think so please pm me as you feel it is inappropriate here
 

SOCRATES

Veteren member
4,966 136
Wrong perception.

bracke said:
Rognvald

Looks like neil is giving you the bird!

Regards

bracke

What is happening is not what you think is happening, what you are experiencing is having
landed right in the middle of the most superb example of dramatic irony yet exhibited on
this website. Follow my posts, notwithstanding, you will benefit, but hen you have to be
ready to recognise first and accept second and enact third.
 

bracke

Experienced member
1,286 12
SOCRATES

You presume to know what I am thinking, you may be right , you may be wrong but it is a presumption.

"Dramatic irony" - that one you will have to explain.

I will folllow your posts because I am interested to see where they go and I may learn something.

Regards

bracke
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
 
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

But it's thanks to our sponsors that access to Trade2Win remains free for all. By viewing our ads you help us pay our bills, so please support the site and disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock