FT71 video - pretty brutal

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Liquid validity

Senior member
2,422 692
all in all I found it entertaining. the idea that a long term profitable trader who trades a 7 figure account records sales pitches is quite frankly hilarious.
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=WOJpWuGmktY1LnnmsQFG7i3dDyiUwfwFUVJZyuAadyGZ453RFzpwAh3FIWa&dispatch=50a222a57771920b6a3d7b606239e4d529b525e0b7e69bf0224adecfb0124e9b61f737ba21b08198d4932d04262264a8f2ad7cb498e6e144

How cynical, I'm sure he donates the 750 to charity, having no need for it,
what with smashing the market everyday.
Maybe all these types of vendor really are altruistic philanphropists :)
 

DionysusToast

Legendary member
5,963 1,497
$1400 for a one day seminar?

James Dalton Trading
To put this in perspective, when I was 26 (I am 42 now), I was earning $900 a day.

Last time I spoke to someone at Gartner Group, they told me their consultants would be $10-14k per day.

If this offering was $50/day - you would say - what a chump, what could you possibly get from a $50 a day course?

If it's $5000/day - you would say - what a ripoff, who charges $500/day?

I think you need to focus on value, not price. Not that I know if this stuff has value or not.

We have to have balance here. Are we going to see something, wait for the first thing to pop into our heads and critique it on that basis? That is very easy and quite lame.

Now - I don't know much about Jim. I do know he gets paid to advise funds, I know he's written 2 very interesting books. He's in his 60's for sure.

Now - the thing is - the 'young bucks' on here are asking "If he's making lots of money, why would he teach". This actually got me thinking today.

- If you were in your 60s - would you want to trade every day?
- If you were in your 60s & had millions in the bank, would you want to make your mark? Would you want to sit back with a tart, some coke, champers and root the day away?
- If you had $$$$$ - why would you open a prop shop and teach people to trade your money instead of just trading it yourself?

That first question is easy.
The second question - well I'm not 60 but perhaps it comes down to having a purpose once the money thing is squared away (so why not do it for free? etc),
The third question - never really considered it until about 60 mins ago...
 

Liquid validity

Senior member
2,422 692
Why do no courses and so on from known, high profile profitable traders exist?
If anyone is that good at what they do and merely undercapitalised,
they would be chasing up banks, prop firms, funds etc.

What possible realistic reason is there for anyone that knows what they
are doing to sell courses for $750?
If nothing else, dealing with plank customers would be enough of a chore...

To my mind, with higher frequency trading, it would be better to pursue
exchange membership and a leased seat.
Lowering costs would seem more worthwhile,
rather than p1ssing about with chump change courses.
So why do they do courses and training?

Personally I find the whole idea of someone training you,
or providing some other means to potentially reduce their own
liquidity ludicrous.

The only reason that ever happens and is worth anything is when the
trainer is going to let you loose with their money working for them.

In answer to other points raised about not wanting to trade anymore:
Richard Dennis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Welcome

Neither do any profit related trading education or anything else.
In fact Dennis has been active in politics.

Fact is Jim Dalton charges money, why if he has no need for it?
 

Lightning McQueen

Moderator
4,861 778
As far as I am aware, FT71 doesn't provide 1 on 1 training. There's nothing to lead into.

He does provide some webinar recordings on line. These webinars come at the massive price of $129.99, all of which goes to a US charity. They cost about 2x the price of the book that CD recommended.

Note that the book seller is also a vendor!

The webinars are all based on auction market theory - not quite Dalton but along those lines.

He is owns a prop shop and a bokerage. I guess that makes him some sort of "uber vendor" in the eyes of our resident vendorphobics.

I think it would be fantastic if all brokerages did this. Obviously the brokerage itself makes more money in the long term if their clients don't blow up, just that I've never heard of one that bothers.

Perhaps we can encourage PBoyles to do an expose on FT71.
the reason i questioned it is the fact i was intrigued as to the (your) motivation to be looking at, or happening to stumble by, a video from their "trader education programme" seeing as you are quoted (somewhere?) as being adamant 99% of trading education is worthless.

first look see the type (if any) of training on offer from these people. well that's not directly clear. they are primarily a prop outfit and brokerage. there are plenty of references to their "training" qualifications and public access to "extensive experience in what it takes to recruit, train and turn a new trader into a profitable one" my take is they do remote trader training for wannabe prop traders via remote, this is jodie.

next look was vanKar trading, and a look at the platforms they provide. it comes as no surprise that ninjatrader is on the list.

now knowing ninja is on the list let's look at their twitter feed

you liked the vid so much you just happened to have found you did a victor kiam and subscribed to their tweets!

lastly let's look at your site, oh! look you are affiliated to them and you link to their training and they likely sell your product too. fancy that!

why the hell has admin allowed this thread?!
 

DionysusToast

Legendary member
5,963 1,497
Why do no courses and so on from known, high profile profitable traders exist?
Is Jim Dalton not a high profile trader? Damn - I thought he was.

If anyone is that good at what they do and merely undercapitalised,they would be chasing up banks, prop firms, funds etc.
Agreed - but what about someone that has been trading 30 years and has a nice pot already? They should trade 8 hours a day, lacking human contact? Should they not do anything else?

What possible realistic reason is there for anyone that knows what they
are doing to sell courses for $750?
If nothing else, dealing with plank customers would be enough of a chore...
I totally agree. Here at 42 years old, with fingers in 3 pies. I see no reason for another pie. I also see no reason to engage in a pie that would tie me up 9-5. That seems like the exact opposite of what I'd want to do. But let's say you were accomplished trader and father/husband. Your kids leave and your wife dies of cancer. Do you sit in a room trading futures day in day out?

Do you find something else to do. If the latter, are you a charlatan because you don't do it for free?

Money is not the sole motivator, although it seems that way if you lack money.

Fact is Jim Dalton charges money, why if he has no need for it?
What do you do for free? The fact that he charges is not the key point. The key point is "does he deliver value?".

I think some of this vendorphobia has reached an extreme. Some people are now looking to trash ANYONE that provide ANYTHING based on the flimsiest of arguments.

If you charge, you are a charlatan, if you DON'T charge, you have an agenda.

You guys never think about what you might do when you get older? You never thought about how your motivations may differ?
 

Liquid validity

Senior member
2,422 692
Jim Dalton is not in the same league as the examples I gave.

Seriously, can you really see any of the following doing this:
Buffett
Paul Tudor Jones
Ed Seykota
Richard Dennis
Bill Eckhardt
Flipper

and so on...

I've already pointed out that Seykota gives info free.
Dennis isn't even involved in trading anymore.

If he charges money, its cause he needs it, simple as.
As for his book, the CBOT manual on MP gives largely the same info.
I'm out of this thread, better things to do and its a debate that will never be resolved.
 

DionysusToast

Legendary member
5,963 1,497
the reason i questioned it is the fact i was intrigued as to the (your) motivation to be looking at, or happening to stumble by, a video from their "trader education programme" seeing as you are quoted (somewhere?) as being adamant 99% of trading education is worthless.
I can tell you how I found it. I created a Twitter account. In fact, I already had one, so I ended up just finding my twitter account. A friend of mine, also a board member on T2W mentioned he liked FT71s tweets. I added FT71 to my account & saw this vid referenced on a recent tweet. I thought it interesting.

first look see the type (if any) of training on offer from these people. well that's not directly clear. they are primarily a prop outfit and brokerage. there are plenty of references to their "training" qualifications and public access to "extensive experience in what it takes to recruit, train and turn a new trader into a profitable one" my take is they do remote trader training for wannabe prop traders via remote, this is jodie.
Yes - a business actually promoting what they do. This is the norm, right?

next look was vanKar trading, and a look at the platforms they provide. it comes as no surprise that ninjatrader is on the list.
Aaaaah - the conspiracy. The facts are:

1 - He has some excellent webinars for $129.99 & the money goes to charity
2 - He has a brokerage and pulls people up when they start blowing their accounts
3 - He does not in any way promote the use of Ninja or Tape reading
4 - He promotes many platforms.
5 - He does not pay me or promote my products

now knowing ninja is on the list let's look at their twitter feed

you liked the vid so much you just happened to have found you did a victor kiam and subscribed to their tweets!
I did subscribe not that I know how to view them in real time because I am fairly ignorant in the ways of Twitter. G... from this forum keeps telling me I need to get into Twitter & and perhaps he can post a copy of the email he sent me so that he can then be accused of being a multi-nick. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

lastly let's look at your site, oh! look you are affiliated to them and you link to their training and they likely sell your product too. fancy that!

why the hell has admin allowed this thread?!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah - I'm an affiliate am I????

Are you sure about that?

Let us examine the page in question: Jigsaw Trading Reconstructed Tape. Improving Time and Sales for Day Traders

This is a blog with mostly free information on trading.The blog is run by a professional index futures trader, trading out of the Chicago Board of Trade building. He trades for a living and has no other profession. He has his own proprietary trading firm and trains traders at his firm, people that have no prior trading experience. There are a number of free webinars available and there are some that you have to pay a small fee for. The proceeds for the paid webinars go to charity. We have watched them all and they are all well worth the small fee. You could pay thousands of dollars for training from a commercial trainer and still not have anything close the richness and value of information on this site. Click Here to go to the site.
I will not reproduce the link - anyone can go there and see it is NOT an affiliate link. It is just a link to his site. In fact, I have no affiliate links. I don't do that.

In short - once again, we have poor research & conclusion jumping.

I know you are still extremely butthurt from when I handed your a$$ to you when you were a Mod but really - let it go.
 

DionysusToast

Legendary member
5,963 1,497
the reason i questioned it is the fact i was intrigued as to the (your) motivation to be looking at, or happening to stumble by, a video from their "trader education programme" seeing as you are quoted (somewhere?) as being adamant 99% of trading education is worthless.
That quote is from the same page you discussed below. Keep up, please.

I can tell you how I found it. I created a Twitter account. In fact, I already had one, so I ended up just finding my twitter account. A friend of mine, also a board member on T2W mentioned he liked FT71s tweets. I added FT71 to my account & saw this vid referenced on a recent tweet. I thought it interesting.

first look see the type (if any) of training on offer from these people. well that's not directly clear. they are primarily a prop outfit and brokerage. there are plenty of references to their "training" qualifications and public access to "extensive experience in what it takes to recruit, train and turn a new trader into a profitable one" my take is they do remote trader training for wannabe prop traders via remote, this is jodie.
Yes - a business actually promoting what they do. This is the norm, right?

next look was vanKar trading, and a look at the platforms they provide. it comes as no surprise that ninjatrader is on the list.
Aaaaah - the conspiracy. The facts are:

1 - He has some excellent webinars for $129.99 & the money goes to charity
2 - He has a brokerage and pulls people up when they start blowing their accounts
3 - He does not in any way promote the use of Ninja or Tape reading
4 - He promotes many platforms.
5 - He does not pay me or promote my products

now knowing ninja is on the list let's look at their twitter feed

you liked the vid so much you just happened to have found you did a victor kiam and subscribed to their tweets!
I did subscribe not that I know how to view them in real time because I am fairly ignorant in the ways of Twitter. G... from this forum keeps telling me I need to get into Twitter & and perhaps he can post a copy of the email he sent me so that he can then be accused of being a multi-nick. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

lastly let's look at your site, oh! look you are affiliated to them and you link to their training and they likely sell your product too. fancy that!

why the hell has admin allowed this thread?!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah - I'm an affiliate am I????

Are you sure about that?

Let us examine the page in question: Jigsaw Trading Reconstructed Tape. Improving Time and Sales for Day Traders

FuturesTrader71
This is a blog with mostly free information on trading.The blog is run by a professional index futures trader, trading out of the Chicago Board of Trade building. He trades for a living and has no other profession. He has his own proprietary trading firm and trains traders at his firm, people that have no prior trading experience. There are a number of free webinars available and there are some that you have to pay a small fee for. The proceeds for the paid webinars go to charity. We have watched them all and they are all well worth the small fee. You could pay thousands of dollars for training from a commercial trainer and still not have anything close the richness and value of information on this site. Click Here to go to the site.
I will not reproduce the link - anyone can go there and see it is NOT an affiliate link. It is just a link to his site. In fact, I have no affiliate links. I don't do that.

In short - once again, we have poor research & conclusion jumping.

I know you are still extremely butthurt from when I handed your a$$ to you when you were a Mod but really - let it go.
 

The Leopard

Experienced member
1,877 1,020
Lulzy thread. (y)

There is one reason and one reason only that people sell systems, training, robots and all the rest. Everyone knows what it is, and if they don't know, a moment's thought should get them there.

None of the other reasons stand up for a moment when subjected to anything approaching serious scrutiny. Diversified income streams, love to teach, give something back, raise money for charity blah blah blah blah blah. All lies, and obviously so.

It is only hope and wilful stupidity on the part of the public that keeps these charlatans in business. Everyone wakes up eventually, but there will be a never-ending stream of gullible idiots to take their places.
 
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