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If you PM Sharky he can get the system to email you your password for the cj12 nick.
DUM TRADER
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Thanks skim i just stick with dum trader for now
making money
Thanks jane
Its a gauge of the order flow, that is, what the buyers and sellers in the market are doing
exaple you got 1 and 2-lot traders placing orders in an attempt to establish a trade. On the other end you got the institutions and large traders who, besides looking for trades, will use the book in an attempt to bluff other traders.
An example of how they might do this is by placing large buy orders and hoping other traders bid in front of those orders. The institution will then sell those bids. In many ways it's a game of cat-and-mouse that often goes unnoticed by new traders.
CJ
Thanks jane
Its a gauge of the order flow, that is, what the buyers and sellers in the market are doing
exaple you got 1 and 2-lot traders placing orders in an attempt to establish a trade. On the other end you got the institutions and large traders who, besides looking for trades, will use the book in an attempt to bluff other traders.
An example of how they might do this is by placing large buy orders and hoping other traders bid in front of those orders. The institution will then sell those bids. In many ways it's a game of cat-and-mouse that often goes unnoticed by new traders.
CJ
TheBramble
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That's why you need decent market depth (on the buy side in your example CJ) to confirm the big players' intentions.
A lonely but big bid is nearly always suspicious.
A lonely but big bid is nearly always suspicious.
The General
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CJ,
Welcome back mate. I'm still awaiting your promised explanation of how you get your targets - eg 10285 !?
Anyway good call to fill that gap son....
Welcome back mate. I'm still awaiting your promised explanation of how you get your targets - eg 10285 !?
Anyway good call to fill that gap son....
Thanks for the post guy's It looks like at the open the market will try to get traders to go long, before it tanks it bounced off 10445 next target 10285, But before we go there it looks like, based on price action the market will take a good few stops out above 10553, then it should head down, i be looking to sell around 10553
General I will think of something to write about how i trade but I like pure price action maybe take a look at 125% of yesterday range and look for a reversal, but it would help if volatility is up more than the past 3 days, to take the signal, stop would be 150% of yesterdays range sometimes the 150% break signals a change in trend, but you need to combine it with price action, or what ever you feel comfortable with maybe and indictor of some sort.
CJ
General I will think of something to write about how i trade but I like pure price action maybe take a look at 125% of yesterday range and look for a reversal, but it would help if volatility is up more than the past 3 days, to take the signal, stop would be 150% of yesterdays range sometimes the 150% break signals a change in trend, but you need to combine it with price action, or what ever you feel comfortable with maybe and indictor of some sort.
CJ
Nice to see you back CJ and its good that you have your original name restored.
Now I know who I am talking to. The real McCoy!
Continue to keep us ahead of the big boys with what direction the Dow will be heading after the initial game play.
It would certainly be nice to know a bit more about how you calculate what the market makers are doing and the price that they move the market by before it settles into normal action.
Now I know who I am talking to. The real McCoy!
Continue to keep us ahead of the big boys with what direction the Dow will be heading after the initial game play.
It would certainly be nice to know a bit more about how you calculate what the market makers are doing and the price that they move the market by before it settles into normal action.
Update from my last post for Thursdays I said it looks like the market will trade up to 10553 then tank, And that exactly what happen, I went short up where all the stops where at 10455 and got out at the close for some 100 points.
I still think the 10280 is still on for the short, For Mondays trading be cautious could get a choppy open. A break below 10380 will likely spark another push lower Monday, while an upside move through 10,455 will show some strength. but get ready to short again at 10510
Above is just a guide for next days trading as the market hits my levels I am not around to say how I trade them, the key is see how price acts when it gets at these levels, an example I said yesterday look to go short at 10553, but I my self went short at 10535
CJ
I still think the 10280 is still on for the short, For Mondays trading be cautious could get a choppy open. A break below 10380 will likely spark another push lower Monday, while an upside move through 10,455 will show some strength. but get ready to short again at 10510
Above is just a guide for next days trading as the market hits my levels I am not around to say how I trade them, the key is see how price acts when it gets at these levels, an example I said yesterday look to go short at 10553, but I my self went short at 10535
CJ
CJ12, your reading of the Dow yesterday was impressive. Well done! I'd appreciate you keeping us posted.
I went short the S+P, but due to nervousness only made 80 points in 5 trades. I should have entered sooner, as your target was hit by the futures pre-market, and held on for longer, but I suffer from that on every trade!! Thanks!
I went short the S+P, but due to nervousness only made 80 points in 5 trades. I should have entered sooner, as your target was hit by the futures pre-market, and held on for longer, but I suffer from that on every trade!! Thanks!
cj12
I have just discovered this thread. I notice that you appear to operate a 120/130 point stoploss.
I have previously understood that the stoploss shoud be placed inside of the expected gain eg expected gain 100 points place stoploss less than 100 points.
You appear not to follow this rule, why not?
Regards
bracke
I have just discovered this thread. I notice that you appear to operate a 120/130 point stoploss.
I have previously understood that the stoploss shoud be placed inside of the expected gain eg expected gain 100 points place stoploss less than 100 points.
You appear not to follow this rule, why not?
Regards
bracke
To bracke
There no black & white rules to trading as in 3.1 ratio example win 30 points but don't lose no more than 10 points, This type of trading you get stopped out a lot and I bet you that you be lucky to break-even with commission cost. I know of a trader who trades with a 10 point target and a 30 points stop. It's all a matter of probabilities he like high probability trades, you got to give the market room for random market noise. Let me give you an example take a look at a Dow cash chart and compare it to the Dow future chart, you will see how the future guy's always over react to situations.
And as for the 100 to 130 stops You said I use they are only on position trades. Yesterday was not a position trade it was a day trade. on day trade I don't have rigid stops, they can be anywhere from 10 points to 40 points but I would trade less lot size for a 40 points stop compered to a 10 point stop. I try to base the stops where I think they wont be hit, and if they are hit that usually tells me the trend as change and I might revers my trade but I would wait for some kind of retracment before I jump abode in a fast market, but if my stop got hit on a slow rising market I would probably revers at that point and go with the flow.
CJ
There no black & white rules to trading as in 3.1 ratio example win 30 points but don't lose no more than 10 points, This type of trading you get stopped out a lot and I bet you that you be lucky to break-even with commission cost. I know of a trader who trades with a 10 point target and a 30 points stop. It's all a matter of probabilities he like high probability trades, you got to give the market room for random market noise. Let me give you an example take a look at a Dow cash chart and compare it to the Dow future chart, you will see how the future guy's always over react to situations.
And as for the 100 to 130 stops You said I use they are only on position trades. Yesterday was not a position trade it was a day trade. on day trade I don't have rigid stops, they can be anywhere from 10 points to 40 points but I would trade less lot size for a 40 points stop compered to a 10 point stop. I try to base the stops where I think they wont be hit, and if they are hit that usually tells me the trend as change and I might revers my trade but I would wait for some kind of retracment before I jump abode in a fast market, but if my stop got hit on a slow rising market I would probably revers at that point and go with the flow.
CJ
cj
Thank you for your reply
I have come to the conclusion that for monthly indices trades medium stoploss levels of 50 - 60 points often get stopped out in general trading or on sb company spikes.
Close stoploss levels of 20 points are ok if you expect the market to move in your direction immediately otherwise you will get stopped out early
To avoid the problems mentioned above stoploss levels of 120 - 150 points appear to be necessary. I appreciate that they are expensive if they are hit but the alternative is to be continually stopped out.
Looking at the dow for 2004 the amount of movement even on a daily basis will hit a 50/60 point stoploss quite quickly. A 150 point stoploss would have been hit on 2/3 occasions.
Perhaps the answer is to set the stoploss using support or resistance levels plus a given number of point eg. 100.
Regards
bracke
Thank you for your reply
I have come to the conclusion that for monthly indices trades medium stoploss levels of 50 - 60 points often get stopped out in general trading or on sb company spikes.
Close stoploss levels of 20 points are ok if you expect the market to move in your direction immediately otherwise you will get stopped out early
To avoid the problems mentioned above stoploss levels of 120 - 150 points appear to be necessary. I appreciate that they are expensive if they are hit but the alternative is to be continually stopped out.
Looking at the dow for 2004 the amount of movement even on a daily basis will hit a 50/60 point stoploss quite quickly. A 150 point stoploss would have been hit on 2/3 occasions.
Perhaps the answer is to set the stoploss using support or resistance levels plus a given number of point eg. 100.
Regards
bracke
rossored
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cj, i admire your impressive reading of the dow for the last couple of days.
also must say that if you and anyone else runs those kind of stops you must be either a)rich enough to live with the losses or b)crazy enough to have them that big!
100-120 point stops!! Wow! Even swing trading I think that is HUGE!!! (what exactly does a "swing" mean, anyway! Isnt that a day trade that's converted into a position trade because it went wrong LOL )
My stops are never more than 12 YM points, more often than not 10 points, and if I can get away with less then I will. However, I am of course a day trader, NEVER hold overnight and I'm rarely in a trade more than half an hour - maybe an hour at most, so my strategy will be somewhat different to yours.
It just shows how differently we all view the market and our various money management and trade entry/exit strategies.
RR
also must say that if you and anyone else runs those kind of stops you must be either a)rich enough to live with the losses or b)crazy enough to have them that big!
100-120 point stops!! Wow! Even swing trading I think that is HUGE!!! (what exactly does a "swing" mean, anyway! Isnt that a day trade that's converted into a position trade because it went wrong LOL
)My stops are never more than 12 YM points, more often than not 10 points, and if I can get away with less then I will. However, I am of course a day trader, NEVER hold overnight and I'm rarely in a trade more than half an hour - maybe an hour at most, so my strategy will be somewhat different to yours.
It just shows how differently we all view the market and our various money management and trade entry/exit strategies.
RR
rossored
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bracke,
good question mate. My pain tolerance would probably be not a lot more than 50-60 points - as a day trader, I'd hate seeing that kind of drawdown to be honest, so its a question I cant really answer.
I wasnt criticising Cj's technique - clearly it works for him and no doubt others - just that from my viewpoint, stops of 100+ points are huge.
However, I do know of another trader on this site who last year shorted the Dow at 8500....with a stop at 9500. Needless to say, the stop got triggered...
Each to thier own!
good question mate. My pain tolerance would probably be not a lot more than 50-60 points - as a day trader, I'd hate seeing that kind of drawdown to be honest, so its a question I cant really answer.
I wasnt criticising Cj's technique - clearly it works for him and no doubt others - just that from my viewpoint, stops of 100+ points are huge.
However, I do know of another trader on this site who last year shorted the Dow at 8500....with a stop at 9500. Needless to say, the stop got triggered...
Each to thier own!
