The Journey from the Basement

[china white]

Socrates spot on.

let me ask everyone a Q - didnt u have those moments when u switch on the screens, have a quick look at the pattern, and u just KNOW where it is gonna go? of which u r properly scared, u don't trade and the market goes exactly the way u KNEW in a flash it'd go?

Intuition? call it that way if u like. But in reality it is YOUR OTHER TRADING SELF manifesting itself of which your "natural" self is obviously sh*t scared

It is when that other self of yours takes full posession of u for 6 1/2 hours every working day that u become what city lads stuck to their "natural selves" call "star trader. how the fcuk does he do it? he must have some inside we don't know about"

BUT do not lollaby yrself - this transition will come at a cost. Your "natural self" is not gonna stay unaffected. Even more scary - ppl will start seeing u differently. My personal story - at the age of 35 I've bn married 5 times and i am not mentioning just girlfriends. Some ran away - they cud not see such transformations 5 days every week. From some I ran since i cud see they r getting in the way of that OTHER self. A "normal" human being does not want that. He wants a steady job with 80 K annual income and a steady g/f who has no reasons to get concerned as her beau is always the same "natural" lad. Trader's life is sadly either a string of meaningless flings or being really - and I mean REALLY - blessed to find a partner who can take that. And it is LOADS to take.

My opinion only. Pls no references to "America Psycho"

 

[ford]

SOCRATES,

Thanks for the explaination. I believe I understand what you are saying, but again do not hesitate to say otherwise.

So here goes..

Because the enviroment of trading is unlike any other, where as you have alluded to in your allegories that things are not what they seem and that the market is not there for you and where skills which people have obtained in 'the real world' are of absolutely no use in the market whats so ever, we must change ourselves to conquer this unfamiliar world. We must disgard and dispose of all of these built in mechanisms that are built into the human to protect us, to infact save us in the market place.

I believe what you're saying is that these fears, worries, hesitations, inhibitions, whatever you want to call them, these functions that are built into us, will and do hold back our ability to trade if left unchecked, because it's a part of the mind which is active that could be used for the purposes of trading or that it's another burden on the mind which we could really do without. You couldnt have said it any clearer:

This allows you to have spare capacity if you like. As you are not consciously worrying about what may or may not happen next your subconscious mind is allowed to play its proper part, without it being supressed like it was in the beginning when you were trying to multitask
between the technical and the mindset problems.

This topic is such a cliche, people on a multitude of forums will always bring out the punch lines "fear and greed", "It's all about psychology", "conquer yourself" but no one ever go into such depth and reasoning as you have done here. I'm very glad we havent really touched on any trading yet as what you have to say regarding the preperation of the mind is very impressive when explained and makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[SOCRATES]

And what are the personality charactersitics of the person in front of the screen ?

The person sitting in front of the screen does not have a personality as you call it ~
that is a luxury reserved for when not in front of the screen., since having a personality
carries with it the virus of emotions. This is something only beginners can afford to
have while they are learning. If they succeed in mastering all of the topic and themselves
as well then when they are in front of a screen they become truly deadly to any adversary
who dares, and off screen, well, not a bad chap really.....

 

[Max22]

Thank you for that response, As I what I am understanding is that the person in front of the screen has no emotions.

 

[china white]

Max22, most importantly when the mrkt goes against him he does not WISH or HOPE it'll come back and let him jump out flat!! loads of other things as well - but that one for starters.

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates spot on.

let me ask everyone a Q - didnt u have those moments when u switch on the screens, have a quick look at the pattern, and u just KNOW where it is gonna go? of which u r properly scared, u don't trade and the market goes exactly the way u KNEW in a flash it'd go?

Intuition? call it that way if u like. But in reality it is YOUR OTHER TRADING SELF manifesting itself of which your "natural" self is obviously sh*t scared

It is when that other self of yours takes full posession of u for 6 1/2 hours every working day that u become what city lads stuck to their "natural selves" call "star trader. how the fcuk does he do it? he must have some inside we don't know about"

BUT do not lollaby yrself - this transition will come at a cost. Your "natural self" is not gonna stay unaffected. Even more scary - ppl will start seeing u differently. My personal story - at the age of 35 I've bn married 5 times and i am not mentioning just girlfriends. Some ran away - they cud not see such transformations 5 days every week. From some I ran since i cud see they r getting in the way of that OTHER self. A "normal" human being does not want that. He wants a steady job with 80 K annual income and a steady g/f who has no reasons to get concerned as her beau is always the same "natural" lad. Trader's life is sadly either a string of meaningless flings or being really - and I mean REALLY - blessed to find a partner who can take that. And it is LOADS to take.

My opinion only. Pls no references to "America Psycho"

China that is perfectly correct ~ everybody sees the result but they are not prepared fot
the pain. I had a PM from a poster on "Types of Breakouts", nice chap, very frank about
his life and ambitions and so on, asked me the usual questions about what books to
read and so on. I then asked him why he wanted to do this.
I explained in great detail how once you have crossed the glass wall you are never the
same again, and whether he was prepared to become the product of what you so well
describe here and the price that has to be paid, and I never heard from him again, because
he prefers to retain his humanity, his innocence, and so on. So you cannot blame
people as the price is so hi you cannot expect everyone to be prepared to pay it,
and curiously, it has nothing to do with money but with a different kind of pesonal currency.
You have to have lived it to understand it, M8.

 

[SOCRATES]

Thank you for that response, As I what I am understanding is that the person in front of the screen has no emotions.

None. It is just a function, like pulling a trigger in the middle of a war.

 

[china white]

mate how do u manage to explain it so well in so few words?

an example here some may not like. apologise in advance. i once met 2 Polish lads who served their full 5 yr contracts in French Foreign Legion. Without going too far in drawing the similarity, they had what it takes. In a differnt way of coz. their "natural" selves were, however, changed beyond recognition. They were still very "nice lads" socially, but u cud feel they crossed the "glass wall".

 

[SOCRATES]

SOCRATES,

Thanks for the explaination. I believe I understand what you are saying, but again do not hesitate to say otherwise.

So here goes..

Because the enviroment of trading is unlike any other, where as you have alluded to in your allegories that things are not what they seem and that the market is not there for you and where skills which people have obtained in 'the real world' are of absolutely no use in the market whats so ever, we must change ourselves to conquer this unfamiliar world. We must disgard and dispose of all of these built in mechanisms that are built into the human to protect us, to infact save us in the market place.


Correct !


I believe what you're saying is that these fears, worries, hesitations, inhibitions, whatever you want to call them, these functions that are built into us, will and do hold back our ability to trade if left unchecked, because it's a part of the mind which is active that could be used for the purposes of trading or that it's another burden on the mind which we could really do without. You couldnt have said it any clearer:


Correct, and in addition when a BURDEN is removed it creates free space to release further
Biomind Capabilities.


This topic is such a cliche, people on a multitude of forums will always bring out the punch lines "fear and greed", "It's all about psychology", "conquer yourself" but no one ever go into such depth and reasoning as you have done here. I'm very glad we havent really touched on any trading yet as what you have to say regarding the preperation of the mind is very impressive when explained and makes a whole lot of sense.

Yes but none of this is eveer explained correctly in a structured manner that people
will understand.

THIS IS WHY MY REPUTATION FOR FEROCITY IS JUSTIFIED ~ BECAUSE THERE IS A
LOT OF NONSENSE TALKED AND PEDDLED BY A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO KNOW VERY
LITTLE IF ANYTHING ABOUT THE TRUE REALITY OF THIS SUBJECT ! WHEN THEY
ENCOUNTER ME ~ THE MOVABLE OBJECT MEETS THE IRRESISTIBLE FORCE , AS
EVERYTHING I SAY CAN STAND UP TO THE MOST SEVERE AND DETAILED SCRUTINY.

thanks Fordy,

 

[china white]

btw just crossed my mind - do u know that 60% of volunteers try (in some manner) to escape from the French Foreign Legion during the first 6 months of their contract (for which they get 3 months "penitentiary" in French Equatorial Africa btw) - BUT only 5% do so once they get thru the first 6 months?

 

[ford]

mate how do u manage to explain it so well in so few words?

an example here some may not like. apologise in advance. i once met 2 Polish lads who served their full 5 yr contracts in French Foreign Legion. Without going too far in drawing the similarity, they had what it takes. In a differnt way of coz. their "natural" selves were, however, changed beyond recognition. They were still very "nice lads" socially, but u cud feel they crossed the "glass wall".

Reminds me of a story a guy at the court service was telling me while on my Jury service. He knew a Turkish guy, who served 5 years in the American foreign force in Germany, did his 5 years, got American Citizenship, but he also picked up German citizenship, learned German, English and ofcourse knows his mother tongue. He's now back in Turkey and owns a telecommunication business earning good money, real good money. Now I don't know about the authenticity of this story, could be a load of bull. But the fact is, anyone who does anything like that, has sacraficed a lot today for tommorow.. and if the story is true, the guy has probably achieved what was beyond his wildest dreams and all I can say is, you've damn well earned it. When I heard that story I thought wow, thats a lot for someone to do, and those that do it are far and few between.. he's definately passed the glass wall.

 

[china white]

Fordie - lill correction here - in that particular story he cud've bn just the lucky one who was at the right place at the right time. Read biography of Abramovich - u'll be amazed.

U don't get away on luck in trading for too long though. Successful trading DOES require a complete re-moulding of YOUR psycology and character. And that is the hardest bit IMO

 

[SOCRATES]

mate how do u manage to explain it so well in so few words?

an example here some may not like. apologise in advance. i once met 2 Polish lads who served their full 5 yr contracts in French Foreign Legion. Without going too far in drawing the similarity, they had what it takes. In a differnt way of coz. their "natural" selves were, however, changed beyond recognition. They were still very "nice lads" socially, but u cud feel they crossed the "glass wall".

Now you mention it, I have some friends in Special Forces, as I knew David Sterling, the
founder of the SAS which is the model around which all Special Forces worldwide have been formed since WW2. I was able to meet some of his contemporaries including one chap with whom for a few months I shared an office with. What I can tell you is that there is very little difference in SF between the Officers who are known as "Ruperts" afffectionately,and the troopers. They are all fantastic guys, they are not admitted unless the others accept them first, they have their own glass walls to cross, when you meet them they have a a quiet mental toughness that is admirable. I have learnt a great deal from them.
And this chap with whom I shared an office with went all round the world on missions
blowing up obstructions and he looked lilke a tennis player or a golfer, Ha ! Ha ! ha !

 

[SOCRATES]

Gentlemen, if there are no futher questions you wish to ask, I am off to bed, been a long day.
Ta Ta. For Now.

 

[ford]

No more from me, would like to say thanks though, it's very late.. Usually it's only us nutcases with obscure sleeping patterns that are up at this hour. Cya later

 

[Max22]

Socrates,
If there was someone who had never looked at a chart, and did not even know what indicators were, but wanted to be a trader, where you would advise him to start.? A person which could be molded for success.

 

[china white]

fordie, 7:34 pm here i have an excuse to be up

 

[Max22]

fordie, 7:34 pm here i have an excuse to be up

We are in the same time zone

 

[Quercus]

Well, I missed out on the "live" interaction, which is unusual as fordy and I often chat in your we small hours.
I'd just like to say that I'm really identifying with what is being discussed now. I know for a fact that my problems are within my mind, so it must logically follow that the solution too is within my mind. I simply have to learn how to release one form of energy and translate it into another form.
Not much to ask really!
Cheers
Q

 

[oatman]

Ultimately you end up with another persona in parallel to you original self. This parallel persona is very different to your original self and is constructed to deal with a particular scenario specifically. This parallel persona is the one that sits in front of the screen, not your original you.

I was having difficulty knowing where you were on your journey. Now I've found a point that I recognise, having been involved in trading and broking for nearly all of my working life.