joel parker - price action room

the hare said:
Out of interest, would you apply that principle to all industries ?

It seams to me that in practice, different sectors apply different ethical standards. Its all a bit confusing, if you take a pimp as an example, they're totally upfront about the nature of their business relationship when they reccommend a tart for example. You find ethical behaviour in the most sleazy of circumstances.

On the other hand, there's often a right load of shinnanagins associated with professions that are seen as respectable (I was going to give a specific example of a lawyer of my aquaintance, but I fear they'd sue, and cause Mr Sharky a few sleepless nights, so I'll remain uncharacteristcally silent on that point)

Should ethics be context sensitive ?, or are they an absolute ?
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I think if someone is promoting the services of another provider, and gives many reasons for this, but neglects to mention the financial incentive he has for doing so, then yes, this is always unethical.

This is so because the behaviour is misleading. The prospective customer might be led to believe that the only interest the recommender has is that of helping the prospective customer. In this case he may view the advice to use the services of the other provider as being unbiased. Whereas (let us put this as kindly as possible) in fact this might not be the case.
 
DionysusToast said:
Apparently they depend on Pazienza's opinion.

So - if a vendor didn't mention something, it's an intentional effort to deceive.

It can't be an omission because people think of everything all the time.... :rolleyes:
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This has nothing to do with anyone's opinion.

It is simply a basic standard of disclosure to ensure that customers are fully informed - something that all regulated financial services firms have to abide by.

You might not have omitted to mention the financial incentive you have on purpose, of course. But it is odd that you did not do so. You certainly thought to give many other reasons why people should use this particular "educator".

People's own interests are usually those closest to their own hearts, and these interests are usually uppermost in their minds. Yet for some reason on this occasion you entirely "forgot" them, if I understand you correctly.

It is entirely possible, although it would perhaps be very unusual. So unusual that many people might struggle to believe it. :LOL:
 
The Leopard said:
Indeed, and it should be. But DT seems to have taken great exception to people pointing the very simple and straightforward facts you uncovered. :confused:
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i thought someone else suggested we ask dt? and linked over to jigsaw, i believe all i did was reply to another question regarding possible reasons of said link. looking for what joel was selling was the first port of call obviously.

like i said earlier, its a vendor thing they do. i'm so used to seeing it that its a normal thing to see.
 
kinell it's got a bit heated. My own take on things is that Joel Parker is a sharp operator a finely tuned sales machine. I believe he is someone who has traded but cannot trade profitably and hence he makes his money from being a vendor. If he could walk the walk he would have no problem sharing a couple of statements even if they were some time in the past. His statement that 50% of his students are profitable stinks and if he is willing to fib on that one I would bet my house he would fib on other things. Perhaps some people who have paid for training with Joel can come forward and tell us the results.
 
dazzer_fx said:
I little off topic I know but hows your trading going Dutch, do you still use the
principles from free gift to newbies or are you still searching for the grail? It just
seems that for someone that detests vendors you spend alot of time conversing
with them and trying their wares only to end up at the same opinion of that they
all smell the same.
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trading is going well Dazzer will likely be going full time in the next 1 to 3 years, no rush I have my asset management business to tend to, it doesn't pay a man to be in a rush. I am still completing my education, 5 years in. Trust me I don't spend much time sampling vendors wares anymore. I did in years 1 to 3 and it set me back, perhaps this is one of the reasons I have a distinct dislike to 99.9% of vendors. Sometimes I do take a quick look if I think something looks particularly amusing, it's always good to know what utter bo77ox is out there if not for amusement but for some strategies you need to know where the weak/small money is. As for Dutch's free gift to newbies, well he tells me it was just that, it wasn't a strategy he traded alas now Dutch was lost in battle.
 
ChocolateDigestive said:
kinell it's got a bit heated. My own take on things is that Joel Parker is a sharp operator a finely tuned sales machine. I believe he is someone who has traded but cannot trade profitably and hence he makes his money from being a vendor. If he could walk the walk he would have no problem sharing a couple of statements even if they were some time in the past. His statement that 50% of his students are profitable stinks and if he is willing to fib on that one I would bet my house he would fib on other things. Perhaps some people who have paid for training with Joel can come forward and tell us the results.
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Seems reasonable to me.

It has got rather heated, hasn't it? I don't know what's got DT so worked up, I really don't - it's not likely to be a bad day in the markets, is it :LOL: ? His posts have the flavour of those made by a man who's been drinking - the senseless rage, the pitifully illogical arguments, the incoherence, it's all there. Of course, I don't know or say that he has been drinking - perhaps that is just his posting style.

Don't let him see your signature, whatever you do - he is likely to go apoplectic. That is, if his response to my gentle (and helpful) suggestions are anything to go by. It depresses me, I must confess - one makes an honest effort to help people by pointing out a small omission on their website, and one is met not by thanks but by fury. It does not reflect well upon him, it really doesn't. Ingratitude is not an attractive trait.
 
the hare said:
Out of interest, would you apply that principle to all industries ?

It seams to me that in practice, different sectors apply different ethical standards. Its all a bit confusing, if you take a pimp as an example, they're totally upfront about the nature of their business relationship when they reccommend a tart for example. You find ethical behaviour in the most sleazy of circumstances.

On the other hand, there's often a right load of shinnanagins associated with professions that are seen as respectable (I was going to give a specific example of a lawyer of my aquaintance, but I fear they'd sue, and cause Mr Sharky a few sleepless nights, so I'll remain uncharacteristcally silent on that point)

Should ethics be context sensitive ?, or are they an absolute ?
Click to expand...

It should apply to all contexts of course.

Specifically in this biz; our ancestors invented the term *disclaimer* for it
 
ChocolateDigestive said:
...... My own take on things is that Joel Parker is a sharp operator a finely tuned sales machine.....
Click to expand...
There is a sharp difference between American salesmanship and most others.
Australians are much like English in this respect.....we don't like being sold to.
When in another business, they use to bring Americans out to the seminars and for the most part Australians felt their sales techniques were complicated and smacked of dishonesty. (I'm assuming Joel Parker is American).
But Americans expect to be sold to like this, if they aren't courted/badgered they take the view they're not wanted enough.
I would say Joel takes the view he is offering a quality product and so should have quality (American) sales presentation.
 
The Leopard said:
Indeed, and it should be. But DT seems to have taken great exception to people pointing the very simple and straightforward facts you uncovered. :confused:
Click to expand...

This is one view.

Another is you are have got your teeth into a tiny little bone and you don't want to let it go.

Enjoy the glory!
 
The Leopard said:
Seems reasonable to me.

It has got rather heated, hasn't it? I don't know what's got DT so worked up, I really don't - it's not likely to be a bad day in the markets, is it :LOL: ? His posts have the flavour of those made by a man who's been drinking - the senseless rage, the pitifully illogical arguments, the incoherence, it's all there. Of course, I don't know or say that he has been drinking - perhaps that is just his posting style.
Click to expand...

Lordy - you really have me nailed don't you?

I find you very amusing. I love your attempt to join the crusade but it's quite the obsession with you. Of course, we know where your obsession ends, Paz. Just like last time, you'll bottle it up until you have to scream from the rooftops (well, post gay porn) and demand a ban.

You incessant vendor bashing was bound to get around to me. The thing is, I quite enjoy the fun.

The Leopard said:
Don't let him see your signature, whatever you do - he is likely to go apoplectic. That is, if his response to my gentle (and helpful) suggestions are anything to go by. It depresses me, I must confess - one makes an honest effort to help people by pointing out a small omission on their website, and one is met not by thanks but by fury. It does not reflect well upon him, it really doesn't. Ingratitude is not an attractive trait.
Click to expand...

Honest efforts? lol! EVERY post you make is a bash on a vendor, here!

In fact it's a bit creepy that when you click "Find all posts by Leopard" - http://www.trade2win.com/boards/members/402524-the-leopard.html

All you see are vendor bashing posts. It's as if you have nothing to say on the topic of trading at all. Did you get your fingers burnt by vendors?

As someone in the industry, I apologise for the way my peers took you for a ride. Now, move on, get over it because all that angst will work against you when you sit down for a trading session. If indeed, you ever actually get time to do that between bashing vendors.
 
ok guys; here is what i understood from the conversations:

DT has ties to Joel; and needs to disclose this info when he talks about stuff related to his products.

also; a bad vendor does not mean all vendors are bad. it's not like us against them. Unfornuately majority of vendors in trading biz are in the wrong domain.

I have observed two type of vendors in this forum:

1. Vendors who answers questions promptly; and with facts. Recent examples are: andrabr9 from TrendFollowingMentor; and Jason Rogers from FXCM.

2. Vendors who choose not to answer questions; and have resort to personal attacks; or turds. (i.e. Mitchem's response)

Unfornuately this does not work in your favour. Facts do. beleive me there is nothing wrong with disclosing an interest. people will perceive it as *honest*.

Now it's up to you vendors; which category you would like to belong to.
 
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There are vendors and vendors and vendors.

Quite simply, what DT has is a software application which analyses data and presents it in an orderly fashion. Now if a customer sees value in the product, then what exactly is the problem here? I suspect it's the same old story, one of jealousy and the fact that the one's knocking the innovation didn't think of it for themselves.

Oh well, nevermind !
 
counter_violent said:
There are vendors and vendors and vendors.

Quite simply, what DT has is a software application which analyses data and presents it in an orderly fashion. Now if a customer sees value in the product, then what exactly is the problem here? I suspect it's the same old story, one of jealousy and the fact that the one's knocking the innovation didn't think of it for themselves.

Oh well, nevermind !
Click to expand...

there is nothing wrong indeed; that's what we are trying to convey here.
 
counter_violent said:
There are vendors and vendors and vendors.

Quite simply, what DT has is a software application which analyses data and presents it in an orderly fashion. Now if a customer sees value in the product, then what exactly is the problem here? I suspect it's the same old story, one of jealousy and the fact that the one's knocking the innovation didn't think of it for themselves.

Oh well, nevermind !
Click to expand...

Well - let's not forget I am a lulz merchant too...

Anyway - I will update the site but seriously, this is not nefarious. The way it works is we recommend each others products. We decided right at the start not to ask each other for a percentage. So - I recommend his stuff, he recommends mine.

He does bundle my recon tape with his training. If you ask to upgrade to one of the other products, you'll pay Joel the same price you pay me. He eats the paypal fees. I know LM is trying to point out that Joel actually make 1c on the sale but that's just marketing 149.99 vs 150.00.

Now - most will be disgusted I even used the "M" word - how disgusting that you'd have a product and marke tit

Now - I will normally answer questions nicely as Alpha mentions but let's face some facts here.

Pazienza/Leopard is a known lulz merchant..
Who has been 'poking me' all over this board
Who has a pathological dislike for any type of vendor
Who talks about very little other than vendors
Who went "gay porn postal" previously (as Pazienza) in an effort to get banned...
Then after his ban, he couldn't stay away so came back as a Leopard (presumably with pink spots)
Who will at some point be posting gay porn again because he'll see his own need to get banned again.

So - I'm having a well deserved poke back at him. It's light hearted and not to be taken to heart people.

Anyway, I don't have anything against gay porn per se... but might I suggest a "The Lion" be more appropriate next time.
 
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DionysusToast said:
Well - let's not forget I am a lulz merchant too...

Anyway - I will update the site but seriously, this is not nefarious. The way it works is we recommend each others products. We decided right at the start not to ask each other for a percentage. So - I recommend his stuff, he recommends mine.

He does bundle my recon tape with his training. If you ask to upgrade to one of the other products, you'll pay Joel the same price you pay me. He eats the paypal fees. I know LM is trying to point out that Joel actually make 1c on the sale but that's just marketing 149.99 vs 150.00.

Now - most will be disgusted I even used the "M" word - how disgusting that you'd have a product and marke tit :rolleyes:

Now - I will normally answer questions nicely as Alpha mentions but let's face some facts here.

Pazienza/Leopard is a known lulz merchant..
Who has been 'poking me' all over this board
Who has a pathological dislike for any type of vendor
Who talks about very little other than vendors
Who went "gay porn postal" previously (as Pazienza) in an effort to get banned...
Then after his ban, he couldn't stay away so came back as a Leopard (presumably with pink spots)
Who will at some point be posting gay porn again because he'll see his own need to get banned again.

So - I'm having a well deserved poke back at him. It's light hearted and not to be taken to heart people.

Anyway, I don't have anything against gay porn per se... but might I suggest a "The Lion" be more appropriate next time.
Click to expand...



How long did you spend googling for gay leopards before you bit the bullet and decided a lion would do?
 
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Shakone said:
How long did you spend googling for gay leopards before you bit the bullet and decided a lion would do?
Click to expand...

Funny thing is - I saw this pic ages ago and for some reason it stuck in my head.

So - I just typed in "Gay Lions" and there it was.

I didn't bother looking for gay leopards but I am sure they are out there.... 'out'... geddit????
 
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