Alternatives to Darwinex

[TLN]

IMO every kind of "funded trader" stuff is bullshit to scam wannabe traders

At first, I also doubt about the legitimate of FTMO.
But, let's consider their business model as below.
Take 100k account with 540$ fee as example
-Assume that 110 traders join in.
-100 failed. 10 passed. (I guess so based on the difficulties of the challenge phase)
-100 failed earn them 54k $
-10 passed:
+ 5 violates max 10% DD(10k $) and make their lose 50k $. At this points, FTMO is break-even with the fee they earn.
+ 5 remaining is good traders generate 10% profit / year. This is the core of their business in the long run.

I know that above failed/passed number is only my estimation.
But, FTMO can manipulate to get that by increase the fee or the difficulties of the challenge.

But, in sum, if above understanding is correct, I think FTMO is also a good choice to trade for a living for good traders who have spectacular trading skill but small capital.

Also, there is 1 more point make me believe in FTMO that if we can not achieve the profit criteria but our balance at the end is positive, they give us try one more for free.

 

[Viro Major]

The criterias to get funded are not realistic and push to the fault. It excludes most anybody unless lucky ducky during the evaluation. After, it also can’t last so soon past funding, more drop outs occur rapidly and no one is left.

Thus, the filtering is very severe, almost impossible. But at least it’s not loose unlike with Darwins where every average rookie and toxic joe is allowed to participate.

 

[TLN]

Thanks. I like The5ers

I have no idea about The5ers. Let's check it out.

 

[TLN]

I have no idea about The5ers. Let's check it out.

We Fund The Top 5% Traders | Forex Funding Prop Firm

The5%ers Proprietary Trading Fund - The Best Funded Trader programs for Forex Traders. The5ers forex prop firm - funding forex traders

the5ers.com

850$ one time fee for 80k $ initial captial and 20k $ instant real fund.
- 6 months evaluation with target 7% profit, -4% max loss.
- 50$ payout split even in 6 month verification.
- Up to 1.28M $ capitial.

Another good choise for good traders with small capital.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

850$ one time fee for 80k $ initial captial and 20k $ instant real fund.
- 6 months evaluation with target 7% profit, -4% max loss.

Seems the same bullshit analyzed by @itstradingtime
4% of 20k is 800 , so you are paying 850 to be able to risk 800 what is the point?
They are only giving you the illusion to trade a big account.

 

[TLN]

Seems the same bullshit analyzed by @itstradingtime
4% of 20k is 800 , so you are paying 850 to be able to risk 800 what is the point?
They are only giving you the illusion to trade a big accou

Actually, I don't think so.
It depends.
They open a business. They have their way to manage risk.
They allow us to trade a live account immediately without any tracking record evidence.
> 4% of 20k is 800 , so you are paying 850 to be able to risk 800 what is the point?
Therefore, I think this one is easy to understand (At least, they can get the handle of a knife)
And as a good traders, 4% max DD to get 6-7% profit in 6 months. It's not a big deal. (In other word, very affordable target comparing to 10% in 1 month of FTMO).
In worst case, we only lost 850$. But with good skill, we can PASS and get 80k $ capital and double size for each +10% profit.
No profit target, no time limitation, no pressure at all. We can trade our way, manage our own risk to maximize the size to 1.28M $.

Of course, I also checked out a lot of review and proof in Youtube. The5ers is recommended most.

@itstradingtime : Do you agree with above traders/youtuber?

 

[Muiris]

Actually, I don't think so.
It depends.
They open a business. They have their way to manage risk.
They allow us to trade a live account immediately without any tracking record evidence.
> 4% of 20k is 800 , so you are paying 850 to be able to risk 800 what is the point?
Therefore, I think this one is easy to understand (At least, they can get the handle of a knife)
And as a good traders, 4% max DD to get 6-7% profit in 6 months. It's not a big deal. (In other word, very affordable target comparing to 10% in 1 month of FTMO).
In worst case, we only lost 850$. But with good skill, we can PASS and get 80k $ capital and double size for each +10% profit.
No profit target, no time limitation, no pressure at all. We can trade our way, manage our own risk to maximize the size to 1.28M $.

Of course, I also checked out a lot of review and proof in Youtube. The5ers is recommended most.

@itstradingtime : Do you agree with above traders/youtuber?

LMAO!!

it is obviously designed to attract suckers. pure hopium.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

And as a good traders, 4% max DD to get 6-7% profit in 6 months. It's not a big deal.

Easy??
Can you fnd me something like that on Darwinex?
If you find me a trackrecord of 2 years with 28% and 4 % DD ...
If you produce something like that is sure you will attract at least 500k AUM.
Even worse because they assume you can deliver positive return every semester...
And you assumed every failed attempt is a stoploss but you fail also if you retutn 3% after 6 months, so you lose 850 and they lose nothing.

 

[TLN]

Easy

Actually, I do not intend it. I say it a reasonable target than FTMO.

If you find me a trackrecord of 2 years with 28% and 4 % DD

You might misunderstand a little bit.
I checked with their supporters.
Pure 4% max DD is only in evaluation phase.
And it can be extended as long as we make some profit. Ex. After 3 month, we +5% profit. Then, max DD now is 5 + 3 = 8%.
Take AZG as comparision:
- AZG 1st year, made +55% (up to 155%). Max allow DD will be 55+4 = 59%.
- with 59% max DD, AZG can be on board in the bad 2nd year (down to 120%).
- and in 3rd years, AZG recovered and made +65%.( up to 165%).
- AZG only made 4k $ by Darwinex. If he join the5ers, he can now get max capital 1.28M and make much more than that
The point is if the5ers share us the profit as commitment, it's still OK.

but you fail also if you retutn 3% after 6 months, so you lose 850 and they lose nothing.

Actually, not really, if we end with 3% profit. They will share 50% profit ~ 1.5%. We do not lose all.
Just, we do not meet their criterias, we have to accept to give they a little bit considered as their cost when letting us trade on their own money.

One more, if most of you think the target +7% and max DD -4% in 6 months is still not make sense. There is another one, CTI (city traders imperium) allow 1 year period for that target.

In sum, I'd to stop talking about funding firm since I can see from most of Darwinex traders a negative view point about them.

With me, at least, the5ers still provides a fair rule for traders. (FTMO is tough, I know).
And if we can make consistent profit in trading (even only 3-5%/years), join them will give us a little bit more reward.
Darwinex is still OK. But, why don't we try all in case we are traders with small capital but good as trading.

Happy trading to all in next 2021!

 

[CavaliereVerde]

One more, if most of you think the target +7% and max DD -4% in 6 months is still not make sense.

It is not a matter of opinions but but of facts, there are no trackrecords with this kind of smoothness.
What can be done is not what many people think to be able to do.
Picking the luckiest part of a good trackrecord does not work, it means that you need to be both skilled and lucky.

Probably the 5ers is the best one and maybe there is some goodwill and not just greed but in general the business model is close to a scam, they make money from people thet dream to be traders and push promising traders to deliver unrealistc results.

 

[Muiris]

As one who has been with The5ers for some time, it is very important for them to invest in other resources
They send you very helpful weekly statistics, they are forex traders themselves and they have a live trading room Monday to Thursday, you can schedule one on one online meeting, they have a free course for their traders and its really good...
According to my analysis, The5ers need the traders to get up to level 3 to make a profit, so they invest deeply in their traders.

you haven't made level 3 have you

 

[Muiris]

Not yet, keep your fingers crossed for me

True Believer

 

[CavaliereVerde]

After a quick glace 5ers seems exactly like competitors.
Where are the winners?
No trackrecords of the winners and neither of the losers.
Maybe their program is better than the competitors but transparency is zero.
At Darwinex I have been paid and many collegues here have been paid.

Hall of Fame - Darwinex

The Darwinex Hall of Fame lists traders and their respective DARWINs, ordered by performance fees generated

www.darwinex.com

Winners are more visible than losers but you can find both.

While social trading is fake traders for dreaming investors, funded trading is exactly the opposite, a fake investor for dreaming traders.

 

[trilobite]

At Darwinex I have been paid and many collegues here have been paid.

Also the entry fee is, err let me look it up. Ah yes it is ZERO.

 

[TLN]

While social trading is fake traders for dreaming investors, funded trading is exactly the opposite, a fake investor for dreaming traders.

I guess there must be a same background for most of you have a negative about these pros firm stuff.
Consider more about the discussion, the performance fact and the result of all outstanding traders in Darwinex, I now understand a little bit.
However, as you said "When we lower our expectation, that the time we make money". I think this statement can be applied for both investors (social trading) and traders (funding firm).
Ex: Apply 450$ for 40k $ account of The5ers. With some small lucky, we can PASS the evaluation. Then, no any time limitation any more. And we can trade with very conservative risk such as 0.1%/order or 0.05%/order to achieve only 3-5%/years. With this consistency, we as a traders can get back the entry fee and make some extra money. (And I think it might be much more than performance fee of Darwinex if the favour market comes in time).
That's why I think we can have a try on the pros firm with the fair and reasonable rules.

 

[ASGTrade]

Never paying any penny to anyone for "investment". Doesn't matter how good their offer sounds. If they can give a $40k account, they don't need a measly $450 payment. Bit like the scammers that tell you to send a postage fee of $500 to get your share of millions left by some dead king or president. What stops them from keeping the strict rules and withholding a portion of profits instead of charging entry fees? I'm sure most people won't mind taking 5-10% performance fee instead of the 15%+ elsewhere, for example.

In an industry where 90%+ fail under normal conditions, it shows their business is more about fleecing dreamers than actually giving anyone investment. Darwinex has no such limitations and you still see how hard it is for people to succeed.

Maybe my opinion will change after we see 20-30 people that have succeeded on these platforms. Until then..

 

[TLN]

No trackrecords of the winners and neither of the losers.

Yes, about that point I think you're right.
I will suggest to The5ers to open such kind of Hall of fame. Let's wait and see whether any change from them.

 

[Muiris]

Never paying any penny to anyone for "investment". Doesn't matter how good their offer sounds. If they can give a $40k account, they don't need a measly $450 payment. Bit like the scammers that tell you to send a postage fee of $500 to get your share of millions left by some dead king or president. What stops them from keeping the strict rules and withholding a portion of profits instead of charging entry fees? I'm sure most people won't mind taking 5-10% performance fee instead of the 15%+ elsewhere, for example.

In an industry where 90%+ fail under normal conditions, it shows their business is more about fleecing dreamers than actually giving anyone investment. Darwinex has no such limitations and you still see how hard it is for people to succeed.

Maybe my opinion will change after we see 20-30 people that have succeeded on these platforms. Until then..

the 5ers leave the dream "just" within grasp. you'l never get it , but think you will be close

chasing the pot of gold at the bottom of the rainbow

 

[CavaliereVerde]

There are at least 10 "funded traders" and nobody is doing that... what a coincidence...

Your low risk plan could work but BEFORE going for 3% annualized you have to deliver 7% in six month with max DD 4%
This stuff is designad for dreamers that will try to reach the target ASAP and than if they win the 40k they will try to get 50-100% to live from that.

 

[TLN]

I'm sure most people won't mind taking 5-10% performance fee instead of the 15%+ elsewhere, for example

This is the fact at Darwinex. The entry fee is zero. So the performance is changed by Darwinex and for Darwinex only. From 20% to 15%, they decided all.
That is a trade-off, I think.

What stops them from keeping the strict rules and withholding a portion of profits instead of charging entry fees?

So how?
Force traders who want that capital to show their tracking record of 5-10 profitable years? Even this, noone can guarantee the past performance can last in future. Right at Darwinex, if a traders with outstanding tracking record but it's migrated from others brokers, it's reviewed very carefully by others.

And let's take an example. If you got 100k$ and you demand a good trader to manage it to get profit for you. What you will require those traders? Ask them shown their tracking record, ask them show their certificate, ask them to trade on demon account to demonstrate their skill or just simply open a live account for them with the specific fee same as the loss they are allowed?