Darwinex Zero

[lgiamma]

I'm curious to know your opinions about the new Darwinex product.
My first impression is that they are trying a mix between a copy trading brokers and prop firm.

 

[Captain Currency]

Amount of interest: ZERO

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Compare this with prop firms - then you know the competitors.
Other prop firms don't uses a target VaR - and up to 90% profit share instead of 15 %

 

[lgiamma]

95,00 € registration fee is in line with the entry fee of most prop firms. The crazy thing are the 38€/month.
Ok there is no rules and no time limits .... but 38€/month it's too much and out of market. Each month with 25K allocation i must earn 1% to cover the fee

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

95,00 € registration fee is in line with the entry fee of most prop firms. The crazy thing are the 38€/month.
Ok there is no rules and no time limits .... but 38€/month it's too much and out of market. Each month with 25K allocation i must earn 1% to cover the fee

98 + 11*38 = 516 EUR/year subscription fee.
Prop firms like FTMO don't take a fee when you are making money with and/or for them.
For this amount you have more than 3 tries to pass the rules with a 25k account of a prop firm.

It's another play for dreamers.

DarwinIA GOLD criteria - measured on a Darwin with the risk manager and the taret VaR cutting the profit, not the trading account.

IMO the key criterion here is th Return/DD.
There are only 23 out of 2,932 Darwins filling this criterion on all available time frames.

Currently we have only 4 Darwins which could meet this criteria on the regular Darwin platform with the filter criteria and time ranges offered.

Of course this is a snapshot which could change every day.

Do you think they will publish the success of this program?
How will it affect the existing Darwinex traders?

 

[IgnacioDarwinex]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for raising this topic.

I hope the following article helps to understand the rationale behind DarwinexZero: https://blog.darwinex.com/reasons-behind-darwinex-zero/

Prop-trading is NOT something we are into and we are not planning to compete with companies in that segment because of several reasons, the main one being that there is an important conflict of interest between traders and the companies providing these services.

The idea behind D-Zero is finding good traders in their early stages and incentivising them to trade consistently. Those that do well will be able to access investors capital on our Darwinex platform, where we already have more than $100M AuM and one of our traders is already managing $22M+.

I hope this proves helpful!

Stay safe,
Ignacio (Darwinex)

 

[lgiamma]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for raising this topic.

I hope the following article helps to understand the rationale behind DarwinexZero: https://blog.darwinex.com/reasons-behind-darwinex-zero/

Prop-trading is NOT something we are into and we are not planning to compete with companies in that segment because of several reasons, the main one being that there is an important conflict of interest between traders and the companies providing these services.

The idea behind D-Zero is finding good traders in their early stages and incentivising them to trade consistently. Those that do well will be able to access investors capital on our Darwinex platform, where we already have more than $100M AuM and one of our traders is already managing $22M+.

I hope this proves helpful!

Stay safe,
Ignacio (Darwinex)

Hi Ignacio,
thanks for your contribution to the discussion. I created this thread because I am a Darwinex customer since 2017, at the moment I have 3 active Darwins so I put great attention to all the news you propose.
I fully understand your need to differentiate yourself from prop firms but unfortunately the customers you are going to draw on with Darwinex-Zero are the same: traders who have potential (or who believe they have it) but without the availability of capital.
The comparison with the prop firms is therefore inevitable.
I have several accounts opened with a prop who, for less than 100 euros, gives me an account with 10K and pays me 12% of the profit generated each month with no time limits and with more than reasonable constraints; why should I pay you a landline of 38 euros per month not even having the certainty to reach the assignment every month ...?
I will probably subscribe to the service out of the gratitude for the earnings obtained with you, but in my opinion to be truly successful it will be necessary on your part to review the shareholdings and acknowledge. The market in this segment is truly very active and competitive and at the moment it is necessary to offer something more than the others rather than declaring oneself out of the fray while actually being in it.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for raising this topic.

I hope the following article helps to understand the rationale behind DarwinexZero: https://blog.darwinex.com/reasons-behind-darwinex-zero/

Prop-trading is NOT something we are into and we are not planning to compete with companies in that segment because of several reasons, the main one being that there is an important conflict of interest between traders and the companies providing these services.

The idea behind D-Zero is finding good traders in their early stages and incentivising them to trade consistently. Those that do well will be able to access investors capital on our Darwinex platform, where we already have more than $100M AuM and one of our traders is already managing $22M+.

I hope this proves helpful!

Stay safe,
Ignacio (Darwinex)

I have a question from your link above:

"Thus, in a short time, in Darwinex, we will replace DarwinIA with DarwinIA SILVER and DarwinIA GOLD. Darwinex Zero and Darwinex Classic clients will participate in the same programs."

Can you please explain that with more details for traders with a real account?

Will the "Trader's Total Equity" be irrelevant in DarwinIA GOLD or how will that be replace for traders coming from DarwinIA SILVER?

 

[IgnacioDarwinex]

Hi Ignacio,
thanks for your contribution to the discussion. I created this thread because I am a Darwinex customer since 2017, at the moment I have 3 active Darwins so I put great attention to all the news you propose.
I fully understand your need to differentiate yourself from prop firms but unfortunately the customers you are going to draw on with Darwinex-Zero are the same: traders who have potential (or who believe they have it) but without the availability of capital.
The comparison with the prop firms is therefore inevitable.
I have several accounts opened with a prop who, for less than 100 euros, gives me an account with 10K and pays me 12% of the profit generated each month with no time limits and with more than reasonable constraints; why should I pay you a landline of 38 euros per month not even having the certainty to reach the assignment every month ...?
I will probably subscribe to the service out of the gratitude for the earnings obtained with you, but in my opinion to be truly successful it will be necessary on your part to review the shareholdings and acknowledge. The market in this segment is truly very active and competitive and at the moment it is necessary to offer something more than the others rather than declaring oneself out of the fray while actually being in it.

Thanks a lot for your reply and for your trust throghout these years.

I agree that the comparison with prop firms is inevitable, but if you analyse both models in depth you'll understand that we are speaking about completely different businesses: we are launching D-Zero to allow the "next THA" to follow the right steps in their early stages and nothing would make us happier than finding the "next THA" via D-Zero. Prop firms, on the other hand, would probably end up banning THA from using their services because it would make them lose a lot of money.

From what I can read in your comments, you sound like an experienced trader who has already passed the initial stages where one does not feel comfortable when fighting the markets, so D-Zero is probably not aimed at you (although you are more than welcome to try it out, you'll see it's actually quite challenging!).

However, if you could have used D-Zero 10 years ago when you were getting started, you probably would have appreciated the opportunity to develop your own trading strategy without any constraints whatsoever, building your own track record on your terms so you could now be using your track record on Darwinex to attract real investor capital.

On top of the above, if you were based in the US or other countries where Darwinex is not available, D-Zero would be your entry to the entire Darwinex universe, being able to access all our features and investors' capital.

We are well aware that we operate different than prop firms, but we are doing so on purpose (same as when we launched Darwinex 10 years ago). Our path might take longer, but we know it is the right path and we can go to bed with a peaceful mind every night because we are doing sth that is fully aligned with our customers' interests.

Sorry for the long reply and, again, big thank you for your trust throughout these years!!

All the best,
Ignacio

 

[IgnacioDarwinex]

I have a question from your link above:

"Thus, in a short time, in Darwinex, we will replace DarwinIA with DarwinIA SILVER and DarwinIA GOLD. Darwinex Zero and Darwinex Classic clients will participate in the same programs."

Can you please explain that with more details for traders with a real account?

Will the "Trader's Total Equity" be irrelevant in DarwinIA GOLD or how will that be replace for traders coming from DarwinIA SILVER?

Thanks for your query!

We'll explain everything in due time, but trader's total equity will be indeed irrelevant for DarwinIA GOLD purposes.

We are working on many exciting news and features 💪

Best,
Ignacio

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Prop firms, on the other hand, would probably end up banning THA from using their services because it would make them lose a lot of money.

No, why should they do that?
Since the Darwin exists, THA does not have even one calendar month where the result of the trading account would match the usual requirement of 10% profit within one month to pass the typical challenge.

That's why THA is with Darwinex and that's good for both.

 

[lgiamma]

Thanks a lot for your reply and for your trust throghout these years.

I agree that the comparison with prop firms is inevitable, but if you analyse both models in depth you'll understand that we are speaking about completely different businesses: we are launching D-Zero to allow the "next THA" to follow the right steps in their early stages and nothing would make us happier than finding the "next THA" via D-Zero. Prop firms, on the other hand, would probably end up banning THA from using their services because it would make them lose a lot of money.

From what I can read in your comments, you sound like an experienced trader who has already passed the initial stages where one does not feel comfortable when fighting the markets, so D-Zero is probably not aimed at you (although you are more than welcome to try it out, you'll see it's actually quite challenging!).

However, if you could have used D-Zero 10 years ago when you were getting started, you probably would have appreciated the opportunity to develop your own trading strategy without any constraints whatsoever, building your own track record on your terms so you could now be using your track record on Darwinex to attract real investor capital.

On top of the above, if you were based in the US or other countries where Darwinex is not available, D-Zero would be your entry to the entire Darwinex universe, being able to access all our features and investors' capital.

We are well aware that we operate different than prop firms, but we are doing so on purpose (same as when we launched Darwinex 10 years ago). Our path might take longer, but we know it is the right path and we can go to bed with a peaceful mind every night because we are doing sth that is fully aligned with our customers' interests.

Sorry for the long reply and, again, big thank you for your trust throughout these years!!

All the best,
Ignacio

Thanks for your detailed answer.
I want to be brief and try to explain clearly what in my opinion doesn't work in your Darwinex zero.
The trader wants to make money on the markets; this is my thought and I'm sure of others too.
If after years of study I manage to create a good strategy, I put my money into it. If my money is not enough to allow me to live with trading I look for opportunities that make money available. Obviously I will try to maximize the cost/benefit ratio. If a prop firm with 750 euros give me 100K of capital available, it pays me 12% of the profits generated and when I have reached 10% profit it gives me back the money invested, why should I invest 98 euros plus 38/month without certainty of having the capital available ....? just to have the chance that maybe some investors will rate my track good for their money....?
Even THA would have doubts .... and I'm not THA, at the moment with my Darwin I have 1 investor with 1000 euros (whom I thank for his trust) and a little allocation. Until yesterday I was also in the Good Scores filter so definitely better than many others.
If it's not convenient for me ..... i guess many ... many traders they will stay away ... also the new THA .....

 

[joyny]

For now to create a new darwin i open account with 100usd and thats it. No more payments needed. I then will wait about 2 years to get track record. Might have 20% to 50% drawdown trading 0.01 lots. Because small account.

With Zero i have to pay 98usd and then each month 38usd in 2years results in total expenses of 1010usd.

I dont see why instead of 100usd someone would choose 1010usd?

If will be set rule that min account 1000usd then i understand. But in that case i would go away to other social trading broker or prop firm.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

For now to create a new darwin i open account with 100usd and thats it. No more payments needed. I then will wait about 2 years to get track record. Might have 20% to 50% drawdown trading 0.01 lots. Because small account.

With Zero i have to pay 98usd and then each month 38usd in 2years results in total expenses of 1010usd.

I dont see why instead of 100usd someone would choose 1010usd?

If will be set rule that min account 1000usd then i understand. But in that case i would go away to other social trading broker or prop firm.

You should calculate the potential income against the 1,010 USD fees to pay.
If I got it right, they give 40 allocations with 30k or more and additional a 25k allocation for each month the Darwin reaches or exceeds the rating of 75.
You find the current list of participiants here:

Darwinex Zero - Become an Investable Trader from €38 a month with Zero Risk

Demonstrate the worth of your trading strategy in a virtual trading account and raise capital month by month as you grow. Get your subscription!

www.darwinexzero.com

A calculator for the rating is available here - play with it! DD is only to take to the calculator from the last 6 months.

Darwinex Zero - Investitionen anlocken, während Du wächst

Baue Deinen Trackrecord auf und ziehen Sie Investitionen an, während Du wächst

www.darwinexzero.com

As the classic DarwinIA lottery with D-Score, you need a history of about a year and a profitable month to be eligible for an allocation.

My Darwin MOT would have got ahypothetical DarwinIA SILVER allocation for December 2022 for sure, but no payout end of March as the first quarter was not profitable. Your Darwin GBN would have got allocations and payouts in 2022. I didn't calculate whether you or Darwinex would have made hypothetical profit in 2022 from fees and payouts with the trading of GBN as a DarwinIA SILVER Darwin.

 

[RogerLivermore]

Although I really don`t understand how someone serious about Trading could not put some money aside and build a Live account ( they say Zero costs, which is just plain lie! -monthly fees are what?), I totally agree with:

"Prop firms, on the other hand, would probably end up banning THA from using their services because it would make them lose a lot of money."

There's a conflict of interest and with high profit sharing comes costs. I had serious issues with FTMO. Those demo accounts funded by failing challenges can only take you so far.

So lower gains w Darwin but no conflict of interest.

Still, it seems to me another 'prop firm dream' type of account.

I love Darwin, but that's the reality when you take in consideration which kind of clients they are going after and go through the Profit calculations.
- no money, beginners deluded by the account amounts.
- Limited VaR account + only 15% profit split.

Every 1% of gain in a 25k acc yields 37,5. So the first % goes to fees, and the second to you. That's it, only 37 bucks.
And we know that it's hard as fuck to sustain gains of 2%+ months in a row in a Darwin. 2% monthly = 26% Yearly which puts you already in the top accounts, while the reality is that the majority will make less than that, or probably blow the VaR and the account.

Now if good accounts can get consistently 100K+, that would be better, 150/1% profit, but then if someone is doing well there and keeping good stats, wouldn't it be better simply to trade a live account ? Even a small 500 bucks could yield that easily. He/she would just make more money and not pay fees in his own Live account.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

More significant differences are also in the details:

DarwinexZero leverage:

• 10:1 for Forex pairs.
• 5:1 for commodities.
• 3:1 for Indices.
• 2:1 for US stocks & US ETFs.

source: https://www.darwinexzero.com/docs/darwinex-zero-leverage

Darwinex live account leverage:

What assets can I trade?

Darwinex currently offers all US Stocks, 60+ Futures Contracts, FX, Index, Single Stock and Commodity CFDs.

help.darwinex.com

As the risk manager cuts the profit of high leverage accounts, the difference between the trading accounts might be dilluted. But I'm sure I could not trade the same volume in DarwinexZero as with my FTMO trial accounts with a leverage of 1:15 for indices on the swing account.
Besides that I would be really curious which VaR would be calculated for trading like my FTMO trials.

 

[IgnacioDarwinex]

Although I really don`t understand how someone serious about Trading could not put some money aside and build a Live account ( they say Zero costs, which is just plain lie! -monthly fees are what?), I totally agree with:



There's a conflict of interest and with high profit sharing comes costs. I had serious issues with FTMO. Those demo accounts funded by failing challenges can only take you so far.

So lower gains w Darwin but no conflict of interest.

Still, it seems to me another 'prop firm dream' type of account.

I love Darwin, but that's the reality when you take in consideration which kind of clients they are going after and go through the Profit calculations.
- no money, beginners deluded by the account amounts.
- Limited VaR account + only 15% profit split.

Every 1% of gain in a 25k acc yields 37,5. So the first % goes to fees, and the second to you. That's it, only 37 bucks.
And we know that it's hard as fuck to sustain gains of 2%+ months in a row in a Darwin. 2% monthly = 26% Yearly which puts you already in the top accounts, while the reality is that the majority will make less than that, or probably blow the VaR and the account.

Now if good accounts can get consistently 100K+, that would be better, 150/1% profit, but then if someone is doing well there and keeping good stats, wouldn't it be better simply to trade a live account ? Even a small 500 bucks could yield that easily. He/she would just make more money and not pay fees in his own Live account.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Roger!

The idea is precisely to start on Darwinex Zero until you feel comfortable with your strategy and your results.

Once you have found your path to consistency and profitability on Zero, you can migrate your track record to Darwinex Classic and trade your live funds there.

Hope this clarifies the idea behind D-Zero!

Best,
Ignacio

PS: Please don't disregard the fact that US traders cannot trade with Darwinex Classic, so D-Zero is the perfect gateway for them to join our ecosystem!
PS1: To the best of my knowledge, we don't speak about Zero Costs, but about Zero Risk, in the sense that you are not risking your own capital.

 

[IgnacioDarwinex]

Thanks for your reply!

The trader wants to make money on the markets; this is my thought and I'm sure of others too.
If after years of study I manage to create a good strategy, I put my money into it. If my money is not enough to allow me to live with trading I look for opportunities that make money available. Obviously I will try to maximize the cost/benefit ratio. If a prop firm with 750 euros give me 100K of capital available, it pays me 12% of the profits generated and when I have reached 10% profit it gives me back the money invested, why should I invest 98 euros plus 38/month without certainty of having the capital available ....?

D-Zero was designed precisely to help you during those years of strudy where you are working on your good strategy (without any restrictions whatsoever). Once you have managed to work on your consistent strategy, you move to Darwinex Classic, trade your own capital + compete for $100M+ assets under management with a properly regulated entity.

Other solutions are not designed to help you design your own strategy because they impose limitations and restrictions that won't help you develop your own trading style.

Let me put it this way: traders who are getting started or who aren't profitable yet have higher chances of becoming better traders with D-Zero in the future than traders gambling on prop firms.

If you are an experienced trader or profitable trader already, D-Zero was not designed for you; you are ready for Darwinex classic.

Hope this helps!

Best,
Ignacio

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

PS: Please don't disregard the fact that US traders cannot trade with Darwinex Classic, so D-Zero is the perfect gateway for them to join our ecosystem!

If you are an experienced trader or profitable trader already, D-Zero was not designed for you; you are ready for Darwinex classic.

Hmmm...

What's true:
you have a much faster chance to get a prize for a profitable month with D-Zero than with DarwinIA, and just in the beginning there are 40 higher prizes available than to expect in DarwinIA after trading a real account for nearly a year when you are eligible for DarwinIA.

The weak spot - in both competitions - is the risk manager creating a VaR (and the unnecessary target VaR) that the trading profit can be cut significantly.

 

[IgnacioDarwinex]

Hmmm...

What's true:
you have a much faster chance to get a prize for a profitable month with D-Zero than with DarwinIA, and just in the beginning there are 40 higher prizes available than to expect in DarwinIA after trading a real account for nearly a year when you are eligible for DarwinIA.

The weak spot - in both competitions - is the risk manager creating a VaR (and the unnecessary target VaR) that the trading profit can be cut significantly.

Thanks for your reply!

I would prefer to analyse it from the other angle: in the specific case of MOT, for instance, your DARWIN looks more attractive than your underlying strategy because of the risk engine's intervention (see screenshots below for MOT with risk engine intervention vs. MOT without risk engine's intervention).

If you were trading MOT on D-Zero, you'd still be able to compete for allocations and could focus on improving your strategy and avoiding future drawdowns like the one you experienced in February.

On Darwinex, this has cost you a loss of your own capital while you are developing your system. On a prop-firm, you would have had lost your account right away.

D-Zero, however, would be the ideal solution while you work on improving MOT.

I hope this proves helpful, I really appreciate your comments!

Kindest regards,
Ignacio