who on here actually makes money trading?

[captainpacific]

Hi Everyone,

I've just joined the forum this evening (actually looking for alternative data feed advice) but this thread made me chuckle.

I've been trading for a living since 1986 (mostly FTSE & S&P futures), and I do pretty well. I don't agree with some comments I read about this style or that style suiting or not suiting beginners. For example, if your psyche and situation is suited to day trading then that's what you should do, beginner or not.

I have also been around long enough to see unsuccessful traders become successful, when they uncover and fix the issue(s) that caused the losses. Mostly these have always been internal issues - i.e. something about their behaviour - rather than system or other technical matters. But then they go and screw it all up by becoming too complex. IMO, most unsuccessful traders are looking for the wrong solutions - that new system, new indicator, new entry / exit rules, etc.

How many other traders do I know who have lived solely and well from their trading for more than 20 years? ............... Hmmmmmm ............. none! Maybe there are some in this forum - I hope.

 

[forker]

Hi Everyone,

I've just joined the forum this evening (actually looking for alternative data feed advice) but this thread made me chuckle.

I've been trading for a living since 1986 (mostly FTSE & S&P futures), and I do pretty well. I don't agree with some comments I read about this style or that style suiting or not suiting beginners. For example, if your psyche and situation is suited to day trading then that's what you should do, beginner or not.

I have also been around long enough to see unsuccessful traders become successful, when they uncover and fix the issue(s) that caused the losses. Mostly these have always been internal issues - i.e. something about their behaviour - rather than system or other technical matters. But then they go and screw it all up by becoming too complex. IMO, most unsuccessful traders are looking for the wrong solutions - that new system, new indicator, new entry / exit rules, etc.

How many other traders do I know who have lived solely and well from their trading for more than 20 years? ............... Hmmmmmm ............. none! Maybe there are some in this forum - I hope.

Don't you think its a case of technical skill and mental control. You can't have success if you have excellent self control with terrible analysis skills. Likewise you can't have success with excellent analysis skills with questionable self control. I think it's a case of first finding a method\s that works and then working on the self control aspect to deliver the edge consistently.

 

[t2w007]

I got this saved somewhere, and I thought I'd share.

The tale of "two kinds" of *Insert Title here*

There are two types A doer and a talker

The "two kinds" applies in every other area of mans' interests: gambling, stocks, racing, hunting, sexcapades, fishing, motorcycles, bird watching and you name it. As we say in racing, "The BS stops when the green flag drops." In photography, the BS stops when the portfolios come out. In Automotive Sports the BS stops when the turbo spools, in Trading, the BS stops when the bank roll, rolls, The guys who spend the most time talking are those who spend the least time doing.

I appreciate this beginner thread, it is a good place look for the next stop.
I do wonder though, for the successful guys, will they have time to give advice to push the novice into the right direction?

One can only hope.

 

[captainpacific]

Yes, you need methodology and self discipline, but the latter is by far the more important. If I had to weight the two elements in terms of how crucial they are I would say 5%:95%.

To prove this I conducted a test that ran over two years, trading markets I had never even looked at before, never mind understood (wheat, pork bellies, and so on). My trading technique was to flip a coin to determine entry each day on the open (heads = long, tails = short). The only modifying factor was that the trade would not be open if the previous 5 day movement was more than x% against the direction of the coin flip. That was my sophisticated method of avoiding going against strong trends (wow - hi tech, eh).

Over the 2 years I made a 78% gain on the account, with only minor drawdowns along the way. The exit criteria were strict and adhered to rigidly (the self discipline). OK, that's not a great growth rate but it demonstrated to me that what I do inside my head (discipline)is far more important than all these systems, programs, technical this and that. However, if I was to measure the ratio of chat about the "technical this and that" compared to controlling one's mind, I suspect the ratio would be nearly the other way around!!

That's what I mean about most people looking the wrong way for the answers.

 

[TheBramble]

The guys who spend the most time talking are those who spend the least time doing.


I do wonder though, for the successful guys, will they have time to give advice to push the novice into the right direction?

One can only hope.

A major assumption on your part and not one that can be made to yield any statistically relevant conclusion.

Are you aware of the mantra “The More The More”? Most of the smart people I know spread their time with significantly wide areas of interest and maintain an active involvement in the same. They are not the norm, who by definition, are quite average. Which, to use your angle, applies equally to this site as everywhere else.

Those that seem to spend the most time talking are neither necessarily worth listening to, nor are they necessarily not. That’s where a glimmer of intelligence from the reader is required in order to differentiate and assess.

Let’s hope I’m right so for your sake as by your logic, you appear to intend to assign the greatest value to those who do not talk at all whilst equally seeming to need it the most.

 

[captainpacific]

I got this saved somewhere, and I thought I'd share.

I do wonder though, for the successful guys, will they have time to give advice to push the novice into the right direction?

One can only hope.

I ran a trading coaching business for several years - so I have tried. Some succeeeded - a few big time for a while (I lost track of them as they went off and did their own thing) - but there were so many who struggled due to lack of commitment, lack of capital (I tried to put those off even joining but they kidded themselves and me about their capital situation in blind hope) & lack of discipline. Note, I haven't mentioned lack of brain power or aptitude - I can't remember anyone who fell by the wayside for those reasons.

In the end it was very draining, so I stopped. I have been thinking of restarting something similar - the online facilities now are far more advanced than when I ran the previous business, so it would be less onerous on me. I'd have to see how much demand there would be for such a service.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I seriously question the motivation of people who claim to be able to trade but prefer to teach instead. If the motivation is pure altruism, then they should make the money and hand it out to people for free. It creates considerable hardship for the vast majority of people who take the training and fail miserably. One can only conclude the trainers are either sadistic or can't trade at all. Any supposed altruism is just BS.

 

[forker]

I seriously question the motivation of people who claim to be able to trade but prefer to teach instead. If the motivation is pure altruism, then they should make the money and hand it out to people for free. It creates considerable hardship for the vast majority of people who take the training and fail miserably. One can only conclude the trainers are either sadistic or can't trade at all. Any supposed altruism is just BS.

Just because students fail doesn't imply the trainer is 5hit or has alternative motives. Sure there are scammers out there but generalising all trainers into a category of 5hit is like saying everyone with the name Joe is an idiot! Get my point?

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Just because students fail doesn't imply the trainer is 5hit or has alternative motives. Sure there are scammers out there but generalising all trainers into a category of 5hit is like saying everyone with the name Joe is an idiot! Get my point?

But my real name is not Joe, and so I didn't get your point. My assertion remains that trainers can't trade. Those who can, trade.

 

[rawrschach]

You're still an idiot.

 

[TheBramble]

My assertion remains that trainers can't trade. Those who can, trade.

To assert with any authority you'd have to know every trainer who trades and have access to their trading account statistics. I suspect you don't.

While this is just a bit of fun, out there in the real world which is comprised of more than just words, assertions without sufficient data to underpin them lead to failure.

You can only ever be as confident as your data, your knowledge and your experience. And all three are constantly shifting and re-informing the other.

Trust nothing. Trust no one. Not even yourself.

 

[rawrschach]

Your idiotic assertion is fallacious. There are a lot of nubs around that think just 'cuz you have money or can make money you should have no other interests. Which is idiotic.

Anyone that has worked as a trader knows how lonely it is which is why we spend our time doing things whether in a work context or otherwise to increase contact with other humans. (Unless you're arabian. He has a particular affinity with baboon butt).

RE what bramble said

“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” – Mark Twain

 

[BeginnerJoe]

It takes an idiot to not trade if he knows how to trade. If the person is sated with money and stops trading, I can understand. But to deliberately take on a less efficient form of money generation, out of any supposed altruism is just plain suspect.

 

[rawrschach]

Who said that trainers don't still trade?

Also, the probability of making money and keeping it as a trainer/any normal job/doing nothing are much higher than as a trader. No matter how successful you may have been in the past. If you have the reputation to make it as a trainer and enjoy then it's probs a lot smarter to do than being a trader.

 

[forker]

Unless you are staring at charts all day you will generally have a lot of free time. Some startup businesses, some get a job, some just sit around watching porn masturbating. Then there are those that decide to teach their trade. You say then why charge for that service if they making money trading! Well then I ask you where do you see that elsewhere in life? Do you think a woman that loves sex is going to give herself away for free just because she has a 9-5 job? No way.
The point is just because genuine traders that are offering education and is making money from trading; doesn't mean they should give away their time and incurred costs to strangers for free. Where is the logic in that?
Don't misunderstand me being supportive to all of them because there are scammers out there. You have to look at the other side of the coin as well. The students might not get it. After all, in order to be a teacher you have to learn how to teach. I am willing to bet that most if not all of them have created their education off what they think is best, and not off an education framework. Teaching isn't easy.

 

[barjon]

................ My assertion remains that trainers can't trade. Those who can, trade...............

That's pretty bold assertion, BJ. Try telling it to Lee Westwood (the number one golfer in the world) next time he's teaching kids how to swing a golf club at his Coaching Academy.

jon

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Teaching is a profession. I suggest people avoid part time teachers who dabble a bit in teaching and dabbles another bit in trading. Such a person would be good at neither.

 

[rawrschach]

Whadja have for breakfast? Kellog's instant fallacy?

 

[barjon]

Teaching is a profession. I suggest people avoid part time teachers who dabble a bit in teaching and dabbles another bit in trading. Such a person would be good at neither.

lol, once again - Try telling it to Lee Westwood (the number one golfer in the world) next time he's teaching kids how to swing a golf club at his Coaching Academy.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

That's pretty bold assertion, BJ. Try telling it to Lee Westwood (the number one golfer in the world) next time he's teaching kids how to swing a golf club at his Coaching Academy.

jon

I know nothing about golfing. But I doubt he wastes his time teaching kids. Understandably, the business would be in his name, and he puts in some photo time. If he doesn't concentrate on what he's doing, he won't be number 1 for long.