Who's making money?

boxersam123

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As the title says.

Who is making a living out of spread betting?

I know its not as easy as it sounds but who has actually made it happen for them.

No flaming just honest answers please!
 
I doubt whether you will get a meaningful set of replies to be honest, based on what I've read in the time I've been here.

To get it out of the way, I am not making a living out of it. Fortunately, I don't depend on it for a living, so anything I make is a bonus. I'd like that bonus to be a lot bigger obviously, and I while I live in hope, being realistic, I know it's going to take a long time before it's anything to write home about.

From the postings I have read, it would seem that there are some people here who appear to be making big money, and who use spread betting. However, there seem to be rather more (apparently) big winners who prefer the DMA route.

The problem with spread betting appears to be that once you get to a certain size you are obviously more noticable. They will definitely be monitoring you. Whether they will be doing anything to make your winning less likely has been a matter of hot debate around these parts. When you get to that size it would appear that you have two options: 1) Go DMA 2) Try one of the SB firms who offer what appears to be a DMA or DMA-like service, and who therefore (in theory, and I emphasise in theory) should not have any reason for not wanting you to win.

Anyway you will have to look back on all the various posts comparing SB firms. One or two appear to stand out.
 
Its vey hard to be consistant month after month, I personally find I need to adapt my trading to
the current market enviroment. Constant market change requires trade adjustment over time. as I learned to trade I went through periods of profit then was Bamboozled when my winning strategy ran dry with loses. If you think about it, it makes total sense that thats the way the market works. For example you find a setup that delivers profits 50% of the time while taking a 2/1 win compared to your loss. Now as time goes by more and more traders start finding that same setup. Once that happens it has to stop working, in the markets the minority win and the majority lose.

So the answer to trading consistantly in my opinion is to constantly look for the ever changing EDGE, in other words constantly adapting what you are doing to fit the market AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

I trade GBP/USD, what is working for me at the moment is a really short time stop. Dont wait for the market to prove you wrong by taking your stop, make the market prove you right within a reasonalbe time then scratch that trade if its not showing you the love. but im on the lookout for
the next EDGE as my experience tells me this will only work in the short term.
 
as I learned to trade I went through periods of profit then was Bamboozled when my winning strategy ran dry with loses. If you think about it, it makes total sense that thats the way the market works. For example you find a setup that delivers profits 50% of the time while taking a 2/1 win compared to your loss. Now as time goes by more and more traders start finding that same setup. Once that happens it has to stop working, in the markets the minority win and the majority lose.

So the answer to trading consistantly in my opinion is to constantly look for the ever changing EDGE, in other words constantly adapting what you are doing to fit the market AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

strange theory though. Surely theres only so many 'setups'. Are you saying that a setup becomes popular on a forum and then people flood the market using that setup? That would almost suggest that nothing works, because at different times, on different forums, there's always a particular style that is 'in vogue'. (like it used to be Dantes pin bars on here, or ACV scalping method on elite etc.) How is it determined which method the market stops allowing to work?? Also, once they stop working, is that it forever in your opinion? If so, surely every method/setup in general(i.e reversal/trend following/indicator etc) has been discssed on this forum and cannot possibly work?

Its almost like a theory my friend came up with when we started trading the markets together about 4 years ago. He said that he knew how the markets worked. All of teh 'big boys' got together at the weekend over a beer and decided on what type of market the following week would be. I.e "Lets make next week an elliott wave week, and all of the people using elliott/starting out using it wil make noney and think they have it made...but the week after that well make it a range bound week for the people following rangebound/standard deviation methods"!!
 
Setups become popular because they work not because of forums. Forums mean nothing to the flow of the market. These forums reflect what has been working and most likely by the time they reach here they are almost at the end of their success.

A traders job is to find these setups by tape reading not forum reading!

If there was constantly successful setups, everyone would be doing them because they worked all the time and thats the point im trying to make. Once a setup gets too much attention it has to stop working based on crowd behaviour in the market. You need the crowd to be on the other side, to be short when you are long and vise versa. You want the crowd to realise its wrong once you have bought so you profit from their panic.

Once the crowd moves on to the next hot setup that works in the short term, then the old setups
will start working again in the correct market enviroment for that setup. Obviously thats a broad statement
but one I believe mostly to be true
 
Well if I take a 1H chart (from the SB account I happen to be using at the time) of cable and zoom it out to the max, I can see (with 20/20 hindsight, naturally), that if you'd just "sold and hold" on 11th Sept (there's a date for you...my birthday :) ) until the 27th Sept, you could have made about 900 pips.

If you had sold the intervening rallies in addition, even better.

If you had managed to recognise that the market had changed at that point, you could have been making say, 200-300 pips trading each leg of the range. Taking the bias to the short side would be in keeping with what is still probably the longer trend.

It's clear that long-term, we have been living in a period of overall dollar weakness, with intervening bouts of dollar strength. However overlaying that, sterling is even weaker, and that also seems to be a long-term trend.

I believe you are right - you have to adapt. The markets are Darwinian in that sense. The more you know about the "why?", then hopefully the more you will tune into the "when".

Are the kind of people who trade based on methods which are in vogue in the forums trading big enough to move the market one way or another? I doubt it. Are the people who watch the forums to see what the retail trade is getting up to big enough to move the market one way or another? Well, clearly SB firms can skew results for their own customers if they choose to, so if you are an SB customer, and using one of the methods currently in vogue on the forums, then it might be as well to try to use it as subtlely as possible.

Dirk du Toit, author of BWILC implies that the average FX broker is about as slippery as the average SB firm, so perhaps even people on DMA are not immune from this sort of thing (although those who post on T2W seem to think that they are).

However I still doubt if even the largest of the retail traders are large enough to actually move the market. From what I've read, not even Hedge Funds can do that unless they are really large (e.g. your LTCMs and your old style Soroses).

Not all the currency transactions on the real FX market are speculation. Of course you have your central banks (acting on behalf of their national governments) who can potentially be moving billions in efforts to stabilise their currency or push it in one direction or another. In doing this in general they will be acting against market forces (if the market was going the way they wanted they wouldn't bother intervening). You also have large global corporations buying currency for imports or as hedging against currency they already hold or want to hold in the future, or repatriating profits to the "home country", etc. Not to mention the IMF and the World Bank, and I am sure there are other players on the field.

So to sum up: no I don't think the sort of trading methods typically discussed on forums like this one stop working because too many people are using them. I think they may just stop working because the nature of the market changes over time, for quite independent reasons. For whatever reason, the trader clearly has to adapt to the conditions in play at the time.
 
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whose making money ??????

As the title says.

Who is making a living out of spread betting?

I know its not as easy as it sounds but who has actually made it happen for them.

No flaming just honest answers please!

Tell you whose making most of the money PETER CRUDDAS.
 
I find spread betting much, much harder than trading DMA. I think this is mostly because trading short term is easier (less time for things to go wrong with your trade!) and DMA is essential for that.
 
the edge

Its vey hard to be consistant month after month, I personally find I need to adapt my trading to
the current market enviroment. Constant market change requires trade adjustment over time. as I learned to trade I went through periods of profit then was Bamboozled when my winning strategy ran dry with loses. If you think about it, it makes total sense that thats the way the market works. For example you find a setup that delivers profits 50% of the time while taking a 2/1 win compared to your loss. Now as time goes by more and more traders start finding that same setup. Once that happens it has to stop working, in the markets the minority win and the majority lose.

So the answer to trading consistantly in my opinion is to constantly look for the ever changing EDGE, in other words constantly adapting what you are doing to fit the market AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

I trade GBP/USD, what is working for me at the moment is a really short time stop. Dont wait for the market to prove you wrong by taking your stop, make the market prove you right within a reasonalbe time then scratch that trade if its not showing you the love. but im on the lookout for
the next EDGE as my experience tells me this will only work in the short term.


I must agree with you. So in trading, you have to keep your eyes open to the reality. If you think you are not getting the edge, work out so that it is you who will fit the market, and not the market to fit you. Another reality is the love of the market. If the market does not seem to love your trade, then that’s the most probable time to diversify.

Correct me if i am wrong.
 
I find spread betting much, much harder than trading DMA. I think this is mostly because trading short term is easier (less time for things to go wrong with your trade!) and DMA is essential for that.

Ditto. With spread betting you're trading against two unknowns.
 
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