who on here actually makes money trading?

[Black Swan]

In the context of trading once you know what you're doing it takes pretty much no energy. Depending on how you trade you could have long periods of free time, which you may or may not decide to use to teach. Your argument is that should you choose to teach. Which your enormous intellect has somehow deduced to mean that such a person must automatically be mediocre at what they do.

classic nub idea that trading takes active work whereas in practice once you know what you're doing often the more passive you become the better

Amen to that brother..

 

[Martinghoul]

The formula for success is remarkably simple. There's a direct correlation between the amount of energy you can/wish to put in and the level of success. The success declines the moment you reduce the input. This is a universal truth applicable to golfing as well as everything else. This is how one can tell trainers suck in trading, or mediocre at best.

I am not a cynic. I am a student of universal formulas.

That's an overly simplistic generalization...

Hard work and a large amount of energy is a necessary, but by no means sufficient condition for success.

That said I do like Calvin Coolidge's eloquent (and optimistic) take on the subject:
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

 

[Black Swan]

That's an overly simplistic generalization...

Hard work and a large amount of energy is a necessary, but by no means sufficient condition for success.

That said I do like Calvin Coolidge's eloquent (and optimistic) take on the subject:
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

I think you've got to keep getting up when you fall d.....Oh 5hit, just remembered, Bramble's on this thread..see ya..

 

[timsk]

Hmm...I could understand it if you asked "why would they bother taking on all that grief if they're earning 50-100K a month.." otherwise your statement is silly, it's akin to the "those who can do, those who can't teach" nosense mantra that folk hang onto.

What I would say is that if you haven't traded successfuly it's unlikely that you can teach trading, but that's a subject already done to death..

Indeed it has.
And it's not really the subject of this thread. I suggest that Beginner Joe and anyone else who's interested in this topic reads this FAQ: Can You Recommend a Mentor, Coach or Trading Course? All the arguments about traders coaching - both for and against - are discussed at length there. If anyone has any new insights or interesting observations about old opinions - please post them to the FAQ!
Thanks,
Tim.

 

[gedward3]

That's pretty bold assertion, BJ. Try telling it to Lee Westwood (the number one golfer in the world) next time he's teaching kids how to swing a golf club at his Coaching Academy.

jon

Disagree with you here Barjon,

I trained with a guy who did Thai Boxing years ago. Iwas doing it for 3 years but he started training when he was 4 so he had 18 years on me. The trainer would never let him stand in because he knew what he was doing and how to do the move but he couldnt explain it. Like a 6th sense he would just do the moves one after the other but he couldnt explain to us in minute detail how to start and fow to end.

Great fighter but lousy trainer

Ged

 

[rawrschach]

We're talking about causality here.

You can't say that he was a lousy trainer because he was a great fighter, which is what the nub is saying.

 

[gedward3]

We're talking about causality here.

You can't say that he was a lousy trainer because he was a great fighter, which is what the nub is saying.

No but im relating it to Barjons post about the golfer that just because Lee Westwood is good at golf he may be crap at teaching.

 

[rawrschach]

Sure he may be crap, but by nubs argument anyone that teaches can't do simply by virtue of the fact that they are teaching.

 

[barjon]

Disagree with you here Barjon,

I trained with a guy who did Thai Boxing years ago. Iwas doing it for 3 years but he started training when he was 4 so he had 18 years on me. The trainer would never let him stand in because he knew what he was doing and how to do the move but he couldnt explain it. Like a 6th sense he would just do the moves one after the other but he couldnt explain to us in minute detail how to start and fow to end.

Great fighter but lousy trainer

Ged

Ged

Well that's the point really

A great at anything doesn't necessarily mean that they would be great at teaching that anything. Some are, some aren't.

By the same token, a great teacher of anything doesn't necessarily mean that they would be great at that anything. Some are, some aren't.

jon

 

[Joey25]

The trouble with directional trading that doesn't involve an indisputable edge such as customer order flow or market making privileges, is that it doesn't matter how many hours you spend "practising" if all it amounts to is betting on red or black.

 

[rawrschach]

The (lack of) logic behind his assertion is the problem.

It is fallacious to say that people can either do or teach but not both. There is no causal relationship between either ability.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I am sure that there are exceptions, but equally I am sure that they are rare.

I refuse to believe there are exceptions. I want people to put down the names of these exceptions, or go home.

 

[Mr Soros]

From what I have seen, those who cant trade are the only ones that teach. It is BIG business. You can attend any course you like, the content will be more or less the same information that you can find for free or work out by yourself ofter a few months.

The ones who have the edge will unlikely share it with you completely because they have sacrificed much to attain it. They ain't gonna give to any tom, dick or harry.

For the prose teaching is not their full time business, they may do some events in between to share some insights, but not their edge.

In reality the edge has to be experienced and learnt. How many will say that MM is the key to success, yet how many intelligent traders have read about it but sill cannot apply the simple maths.

 

[MajorDutch]

The trouble with directional trading that doesn't involve an indisputable edge such as customer order flow or market making privileges, is that it doesn't matter how many hours you spend "practising" if all it amounts to is betting on red or black.

its actually far worse than betting on red or black. On the subject of order flow, I only know of 1 trader who is makes consistent money trading without order flow. Once you starting looking at the order flow around points of S/R you start to see all the games that go on and realise what a retail numpty you have been.

 

[DashRiprock]

its actually far worse than betting on red or black. On the subject of order flow, I only know of 1 trader who is makes consistent money trading without order flow. Once you starting looking at the order flow around points of S/R you start to see all the games that go on and realise what a retail numpty you have been.

look when it all comes down to it, getting an edge in direction trading is way harder than most here actually understands, and opportunities to do it are way way rarer than most here appreciate.

Part of a locals edge is getting filled on an inside price, and to find where the nice places are to get filled you read the orderflow. You can use a directional bias (either trending or fading) as a catalyst for the edge you get from leaning on other contracts (and as a guide to avoid trades as well), obviously - but look the profits you make have to come from somewhere. Getting them from price insensitive traders is much more likely than paying comms and crossing spreads and betting on direction.

thats why its so damn competitive innit. money from hedgers is there, but its like hungry hippo's tryin to get it.

 

[MajorDutch]

look when it all comes down to it, getting an edge in direction trading is way harder than most here actually understands, and opportunities to do it are way way rarer than most here appreciate.

Part of a locals edge is getting filled on an inside price, and to find where the nice places are to get filled you read the orderflow. You can use a directional bias (either trending or fading) as a catalyst for the edge you get from leaning on other contracts (and as a guide to avoid trades as well), obviously - but look the profits you make have to come from somewhere. Getting them from price insensitive traders is much more likely than paying comms and crossing spreads and betting on direction.

thats why its so damn competitive innit. money from hedgers is there, but its like hungry hippo's tryin to get it.

ha ha ha. you've been reading again. getting filled on the inside price is easy I just take a market order when the orders are running out and I get filled pretty much straight away, then the mofo comes back on me. lol. I need to find some price insensitive traders, are we talking about rollover day action? :clap:

 

[forker]

So what you fellas are really saying is opening a trade with expectations of price moving in your favour for more than a scalp is hopeless?

 

[DashRiprock]

ha ha ha. you've been reading again. getting filled on the inside price is easy I just take a market order when the orders are running out and I get filled pretty much straight away, then the mofo comes back on me. lol. I need to find some price insensitive traders, are we talking about rollover day action? :clap:

of course getting filled on an inside price is easy, all you have to do is use a market order and hope that the rest of the world agrees to tick in your favour

 

[DashRiprock]

So what you fellas are really saying is opening a trade with expectations of price moving in your favour for more than a scalp is hopeless?

thats not what im sayin, dunno bout anyone else tho.

 

[the hare]

I refuse to believe there are exceptions. I want people to put down the names of these exceptions, or go home.

I could give you the names of at least 3 people who could teach even you to trade profitably. Two of those people would teach you entirely for free (assuming they didnt flag you as a numpty)

The third is a scum of the earth vendor, the last time I looked he had trippled his price to around 30 bucks a year, and for that he'll give you live trade calls, access to his live trading room, and practically wipe yer **** for you.

The reason I wont name names is that this is a competative game, and the less knowledgable participants playing the better. If you flag someone as clueless then its in everyones best interests that they remain so.