Ukraine invasion

timsk said:

Russia is winning the economic war - and Putin is no closer to withdrawing troops​

"The perverse effects of sanctions means rising fuel and food costs for the rest of the world – and fears are growing of a humanitarian catastrophe. Sooner or later, a deal must be made"
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This is on the nail imo. Sanctions are hurting us and helping Russia and the Asian tigers.

Alongside the rising Ruble, China, Russia and the Asian centric nations are working towards establishing a new alternative to swift, international payment processing system.

Moreover, China holds almost 15% of the dollars held by foreign countries. If they ever started getting rid of all their dollars and other nations followed suit, the $ollar would go into free fall.

I keep thinking about Bush's clip when he says they are working really hard trying to think up ways how they can hurt us more... He wasn't far wrong. Not so funni anymore :(

Are these intended or unintended consequences of weaponising international financial system by the West? Let's ask our leaders!
 
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CavaliereVerde said:
Putin started the senseless war and brought destruction into Ukraine.
Click to expand...
US and Ukraine started this war by insisting on NATO expansion to Russia's border against many warnings about Russia's red lines.

Not only that despite all the accumulation of troops and weapons systems to the border, effectively Russia demonstrating they were serious, US and Ukraine carried on with their activities.

One must be deaf, dumb and blind not to see this.

Repeating the same old dribble about just one man, Putin starting this war is soooo lame. This is obvious MSM fodder news for the masses.

Thought you would have more intelligence to reason otherwise.
 
IlIlIlIlI said:
It looks like the senile American is going to make my day today:
"We’ve never seen anything like Putin’s tax on both food and gas"
Click to expand...

This kind of news really is for the masses.

I feel it insults the intelligence of the mass voters. Or does it not? Your average Joe likes a simple story he can repeat over a pint of beer if one is British or bottle of beer if one is American. "It's all Putin's fault innit? He went and invaded Ukraine and messed up our party?" They say KISS!

What is amazing and shocking to me, is that people who I may have respected as being clued up and savy on the markets buy this claptrap headline news and regurgitate the stuff.

Trying to raise the level of debate here and it just keeps sinking led by our glorious and fantastic elitist and well informed politicians.


On a personal note, I feel US and the UK can see their global influence slowly oozing away to the East. So the guys at the top will do their utmost to knock the players in the East off their game by the usual divide and rule and destabilising strategies that have played out many times before in the past.

However, in the new century, the Eastern tigers are aware of these manoeuvres and tactics. What may have worked in the 19th and 20th century has less traction in the 21st.

We really are in a new paradigm and alliances are shifting and new ones forming. Can't help we are moving into continental divides. East v West. Latin America and Africa are outside of these events somewhat but I'd hazard a guess they'll weigh in on the side of the East. A new era will soon play out in the next two decades which will set the course of the 21st century imo.
 
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Atilla said:
This kind of news really is for the masses.

I feel it insults the intelligence of the mass voters. Or does it not? Your average Joe likes a simple story he can repeat over a pint of beer if one is British or bottle of beer if one is American. "It's all Putin's fault innit? He went and invaded Ukraine and messed up our party?" They say KISS!

What is amazing and shocking to me, is that people who I may have respected as being clued up and savy on the markets buy this claptrap headline news and regurgitate the stuff.

Trying to raise the level of debate here and it just keeps sinking led by our glorious and fantastic elitist and well informed politicians.


On a personal note, I feel US and the UK can see their global influence slowly oozing away to the East. So the guys at the top will do their utmost to knock the players in the East off their game by the usual divide and rule and destabilising strategies that have played out many times before in the past.

However, in the new century, the Eastern tigers are aware of these manoeuvres and tactics. What may have worked in the 19th and 20th century has less traction in the 21st.

We really are in a new paradigm and alliances are shifting and new ones forming. Can't help we are moving into continental divides. East v West. Latin America and Africa are outside of these events somewhat but I'd hazard a guess they'll weigh in on the side of the East. A new era will soon play out in the next two decades which will set the course of the 21st century imo.
Click to expand...

So you do know what i'm talking about.

Biden has been bought and paid for by the East. He is the enemy within. Trump has always known this and fully realised what was at stake. Trump was lecturing the Europeans and Germany in particular on dependency on Russian energy. They all ignored him !

Biden cancelled keystone pipeline on day one in office. Biden supporting BS climate change agenda. Biden takes US from energy independent to dependent on foreign players....why ? Biden's policy actions have caused rampant inflation. There would have been inflation anyhow, but not as severe had the US still been energy independent. Putin has simply added fuel to the fire by his actions in the Ukraine. This is not about denazifying Ukraine, it's a simple land grab in the Eurasia struggle. Putin will continue his destabilisation in former USSR controlled countries whilst the US and Europe continue pontificating on how to deal with him.

Btw, save the insults on members who you thought were savvy and now you don't think so lol. It's not working. We are still very much savvy.

Btw btw. The Ukraine NATO smokescreen is exactly that. Nobody, especially Ukraine was serious about NATO expansion before Russia started it's latest round of terrorism.
 
Atilla said:
Oh yeah? Really? Which country has been fighting wars outside of her territory for over 30 years then?
Click to expand...
I didn't do a worldwide search, but here is one.:D

Russian Federation (1991–present)[edit]​

DateConflictLocationRussia (and its allies)Opponent(s)Result
1991–1993Georgian Civil WarGeorgiaGeorgia
Russia		ZviadistsVictory
  • Zviadist revolt crushed
1991–1993War in AbkhaziaAbkhaziaRussia
Abkhazia		GeorgiaVictory
  • Abkhazia gained de facto independence
1992Transnistria War
TransnistriaTransnistria
Russia		MoldovaVictory
  • Transnistria gained de facto independence
1992East Prigorodny ConflictNorth Ossetia-Alania Russia
North Ossetia-Alania[10]		 Ingush militiaVictory
1992–1997Tajikistani Civil WarTajikistan Tajikistan
//> Uzbekistan
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Turkmenistan
China
India
UNMOT
United Tajik Opposition
Afghanistan Taliban factions		Victory
1993Russian spillover into AzerbaijanAzerbaijan Russia
Withdrawal
  • Reassurance of National Security
  • Huseynov’s Forces are kicked out
  • Russia establishes peace for now in Azerbaijan
  • Strengthens ties with Azerbaijan
1994–1996First Chechen WarChechnyaRussia
  • Chechen Opposition
Ichkeria
Mujahideen		Defeat[11]
1999War of Dagestan
DagestanRussia
 IIPBVictory
1999–2009Second Chechen WarChechnyaRussia
 Ichkeria
Caucasian Fron
Mujahideen		Victory
2008Russo-Georgian WarGeorgia, South Ossetia and AbkhaziaRussia
South Ossetia
Abkhazia		GeorgiaVictory
2009–2017Insurgency in the North CaucasusNorth CaucasusRussia
Caucasus Emirate
ISIL (from 2015)		Victory
  • Defeat of Islamists
2014–presentRusso-Ukrainian War
Ukraine (incl. Crimea) Russia
UkraineOngoing
2015–presentRussian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War
Syria Russia
Syria
Iran
Hezbollah		 ISIL
Ahrar al-Sham
Tahrir al-Sham
Syrian Opposition		Ongoing
2018–presentCentral African Republic Civil WarCentral African RepublicRussia
Central African Republic
Rwanda		 Coalition of Patriots for ChangeOngoing
Click to expand...
 
counter_violent said:
Btw, save the insults on members who you thought were savvy and now you don't think so lol. It's not working. We are still very much savvy.
Click to expand...
c_v,
That's fair enough, but you need to lead by example. If you keep calling us 'Putin's appeasers' (which we absolutely aren't) who can't work out which sock goes on which foot and make snide remarks about fence panels and oil prices etc. (very tiresome), then you really shouldn't be too surprised when you receive a little push back!

As for your savviness - I'm afraid that's still very much in question. You flip flop endlessly between conflicting views as and when it suits your argument. That ain't savvy - that's inconsistent. I've given an example in a recent post about the BBC, another would be how on one hand you claim Russia is losing the war because of poor morale, losing 1,000's of personnel and failing logistics etc., yet on the other hand you'll have us all believe Russia is a force to be reckoned with and Putin is intent on world domination. Which is it - they can't be be true?

All the while, it's Nato who's expanding ever further eastwards, but Putin needn't worry about that because Nato's nukes are lovely, benign and peace loving. . .
NATO says doesn’t guarantee non-deployment of nuclear weapons in Finland, Sweden
Tim.
 
timsk said:
As for your savviness - I'm afraid that's still very much in question. You flip flop endlessly between conflicting views as and when it suits your argument. That ain't savvy - that's inconsistent. I've given an example in a recent post about the BBC, another would be how on one hand you claim Russia is losing the war because of poor morale, losing 1,000's of personnel and failing logistics etc., yet on the other hand you'll have us all believe Russia is a force to be reckoned with and Putin is intent on world domination. Which is it - they can't be be true?
Click to expand...
There is no contraddiction here.
The real russian army is not a threat for Europe, I think France alone could stop and defeat it.
It is still able to do a lot of mess an destruction especially on small and weak countries.
We have to stop Putin ambitions and to acheive it we need his deafeat.
timsk said:
All the while, it's Nato who's expanding ever further eastwards, but Putin needn't worry about that because Nato's nukes are lovely, benign and peace loving. . .
NATO says doesn’t guarantee non-deployment of nuclear weapons in Finland, Sweden
Tim.
Click to expand...
Do you think NATO plans to nuke Russia?
Nukes belong to the game of deterrence, Putin is playing the game of real war.
 
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CavaliereVerde said:
There is no contraddiction here.
The real russian army is not a threat for Europe, I think France alone could stop and defeat it.
It is still able to do a lot of mess an destruction especially on small and weak countries.
Click to expand...
CV,
What you're asking us to believe is that on one hand Putin and his forces are weak and largely ineffectual and don't pose an existential threat to anyone while, on the other hand, he's going to invade other countries anyway and cause havoc. Really?! Why on earth would he do that - just for the fun of it? So yes, these claims are indeed contradictory; they make no sense and the evidence to support them is conspicuous by its absence.
CavaliereVerde said:
Do you think NATO plans to nuke Russia?
Click to expand...
I've no idea; hopefully not. The point of linking to that article is that Nato deploying nukes in Finland and Sweden obviously won't go down well with Putin and the Kremlin. That doesn't make me a Putin appeaser - it's just common sense. What I do (that you and c_v appear not to do), is to try and look at the conflict from both sides and to imagine what I'd think and how I'd feel if I were in Putin's shoes. If everyone made some effort to do the same, I doubt the war would ever have started.
CavaliereVerde said:
Nukes belong to the game of deterrence, Putin is playing the game of real war.
Click to expand...
Ukraine has been playing the game of real war since 2014. The west is playing the game of proxy war, getting expendable Ukrainians (who they don't care two hoots about, btw) to do their dirty work for them in a bid for regime change in Russia and to deflect away from their own inadequacies at home and conveniently pin their long list of failings on Putin the bogeyman.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
he's going to invade other countries anyway and cause havoc. Really?! Why on earth would he do that - just for the fun of it?
Click to expand...
Transnistria
Abcasia
South Ossetia
DPR
LPR
The goal is to punish former soviet countries when they try to distance from mother Russia.
Gangster mentality: you refuse my protection? I occupy some of your land.
timsk said:
Ukraine has been playing the game of real war since 2014.
Click to expand...
Yes Russia is invading Ukraine since 2014.
Now Putin has gone all-in hoping for the same mild reaction from the western world.
 
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CavaliereVerde said:
Yes Russia is invading Ukraine since 2014.
Click to expand...
That's MSM consensus and nonsense since 2022.

Written 2017:
borgenproject.org

The War in Donbass - 10 Facts - The Borgen Project

The war in Donbass is a highly complex, evolving situation that began after Ukraine's 2014 revolution and reorganization of its government.
borgenproject.org borgenproject.org
isnblog.ethz.ch

An End in Sight for Ukraine… Maybe

This article was originally published by Geopolitical Futures (GPF) on 28 September 2017.There are early indicators that Russia and the U.S. may settle for neutrality in Kiev right now.The
isnblog.ethz.ch isnblog.ethz.ch

en.wikipedia.org

War in Donbas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Timeline of the war in Donbas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Did you ever check what MSM wrote about the Donbas regions between 2014 and the beginning of 2022?

MSM 2014 - 2022 - Ukraine is full of Neo-Nazi's​

MSM 2022 -> There are no Neo-Nazi's in Ukraine​


edition.cnn.com

Ukraine: Everything you need to know about how we got here | CNN

It began as a dispute over a trade deal, but it's mushroomed into a bloody conflict. How did the Ukraine crisis begin and how did it then erupt in to civil war?
edition.cnn.com edition.cnn.com
amanpour.blogs.cnn.com

'Donbass has always been and is part of Ukraine,' says former Ukrainian official

By Madalena Araujo, CNN A key minister under Ukraine’s ousted President Viktor Yanukovych told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour in an interview that aired Thursday that “Donbass has always been and is part of Ukraine.
amanpour.blogs.cnn.com amanpour.blogs.cnn.com
 
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IlIlIlIlI said:
libertarianinstitute.org

Provoked: How America Started the New Cold War with Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine | The Libertarian Institute

The following is adapted from a speech Scott gave to the Libertarian Party of Utah on February 26, 2022. Just to get this out of the way first real quick: Whenever someone dares to differ with the common government and TV narrative about Russia and their role in the world,…
libertarianinstitute.org libertarianinstitute.org
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Super article and pretty much explains the last 30 years and all the broken promises by the West.

Sadly, I fear it will fall on deaf and blind beings who will continue to shovel MSM tosh.

Well worth reading to anyone who would like to understand the full the picture outside of Putin is bad narrative.
 
Atilla said:
Well worth reading to anyone who would like to understand the full the picture outside of Putin is bad narrative.
Click to expand...
I dunno At', what's wrong with you? The BBC says 'Zelensky and Ukraine good - Putin and Russia bad' and that's good enough for most people. After all, it's the BBC's job to inform us of the true facts, the full facts and nothing but the facts, so we can all put our trust in them. Why then are you even questioning the mantra? I mean, what are you exactly; a Putin appeaser spouting Russian talking points? Shame on you sir!
:p
 

skwawkbox.org

BBC uses military parade as Ukraine ‘invasion’ footage – but their excuse is ‘near-impossible’

Broadcaster caught out inserting fake video – again – and ex-BBC journalists have said such an error is almost impossible The BBC has been caught presenting video of a military parade f…
skwawkbox.org skwawkbox.org

skwawkbox.org

Exclusive: BBC claims Ukrainian nazis are exaggerated – but shows video of Bowen with nazi unit

‘Risible’ whitewash downplays prevalence of neo-nazis in Ukraine – but BBC interview this week showed Jeremy Bowen interviewing neo-nazi troops The BBC’s Ros Atkins has publ…
skwawkbox.org skwawkbox.org

skwawkbox.org

Zelenskiy bans 11 left parties and merges all TV channels into one – but neo-nazi groups still welcomed

Ukrainian president accuses left parties of being pro-Russian Ukrainian president Volodimir Zelenskiy has today broadcast a video message banning eleven left-wing opposition parties, claiming that …
skwawkbox.org skwawkbox.org

edit:
www.pressenza.com

How the U.S. Has Empowered and Armed Neo-Nazis in Ukraine

Russian President Putin has claimed that he ordered the invasion of Ukraine to “denazify” its government, while Western officials, such as former U.S.
www.pressenza.com
 
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timsk said:
I dunno At', what's wrong with you? The BBC says 'Zelensky and Ukraine good - Putin and Russia bad' and that's good enough for most people. After all, it's the BBC's job to inform us of the true facts, the full facts and nothing but the facts, so we can all put our trust in them. Why then are you even questioning the mantra? I mean, what are you exactly; a Putin appeaser spouting Russian talking points? Shame on you sir!
:p
Click to expand...

I see what you are doing there Tim :) and indeed it is comical how much of a loony tunes news presentation we are shown. It really is yankee doodle cowboy speak. You are either with us or against us tosh.

And the link above where Zelensky bans 11 left parties and takes control of TV demonstrates how there is no democracy in Ukraine and nobody to question what he can do. Thank goodness for Online media to allow some kind of news and alternative debate to get out there.

So Putin one man is bad and Zelensky the other one man is good. Keeping it simple for the masses. Bringing in other parties, voices and representations will cloud the public mind leading to challenges for the Lords of War lining their pockets. Ask no question and get no lies told!

Shocking how alternative voices are labelled as pro-Russian and thus part of the propaganda machine. It really is an eye opener how the masses can be led like sheep.
 
It seems that Putin had a new speech at russian state TV.
He spoke about russian expansion and fortification.
No more BS about nazism or NATO ...
Keep it simple, facts vs conspiracies.
 
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