Ukraine invasion

[counter_violent]

People in Donbas region are predominantly Russian and so they don't count as Ukrainians according to Cavaliers' version of what constitutes civilian. They are invaders and must be purged (some would say ethnically cleansed out of Ukraine). Ukraine MUST become a member of NATO so it can house more US WMD.

As long as the BBC does not report their atrocities then anything you or anybody else says is Russian propaganda. This is because only the West have moral superiority in reporting the truth.

As I understand it any civilian in Ukraine who has any Russian bias, like relatives in Russia or have travelled to mother Russia, don't count as humans. They are sub-human some other non-Ukrainian species or other.

Biden has just passed a bill to provide $40bn to support Ukraine? How many lives is that going to save?

How much of that money will go to people - essentially those in power, at the decision making points will get richer. The rest of the population will just be cannon fodder for the elitists' agenda, supporting the war machine.

If you guys do not see the truth or step up to owning the double standards spouted out, shame on you all .

If the Russians don't like the way Ukraine is run, they can f off back to Russia.

There's nothing to discuss.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

That's WHY the invasion was started, to save the live of civilians in the Donbass region after more than 10,000 were killed there since 2014/2015.

War in Donbas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

According to wikipedia 10k is the sum of military casualties of both sides.
Civilan casualties are 365 before russian invasion.

Donbas is a creation of this guy:

Igor Girkin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[timsk]

Russian invasion caused more civilian deaths in 2 months than 8 years of war in Donbas.

CV,
Have you any credible evidence to support this claim? I'm not questioning that civilians are, sadly, losing their lives - they absolutely are. But I am questioning the numbers which, if they are as large as your post infers - i.e. north of 14,000 - then sure as eggs are eggs we'd be told about them just as we were how many Covid 'cases', hospitalisations and deaths there were day after day for two years. That MSM aren't doing this begs the obvious question: why not?
Tim.

 

[counter_violent]

Well if you want to standby your sentiment do you not think Zelensky can save lives by negotiating with the Russians and backing down from NATO membership which means absolute FA to Ukranian civilians anyhow?

Obviously NATO matters more to the tune of $900m to Zelensky at a moderate guestimate.

Zelensky isn't wanting to join NATO. He made that clear from the start. He does however want to join the EU and as the Ukrainian leader elected by a landslide, we have to assume that the Ukrainian people also want to join the EU.

So quit pussy footing around the BS about what Russia wants. Russia can f off.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

If the Russians don't like the way Ukraine is run, they can f off back to Russia.

There's nothing to discuss.

That is completely wrong.
Because they didn't come from anywhere in Russia and settled down there with their last generation(s).

That's the same as to tell the people of South Tyrol to go "back" to Austria where they never lived.

 

[counter_violent]

Ukraine should negotiate with Putin to protect German economy, VW boss says
"The chief executive of Volkswagen has called for a negotiated settlement between Russia and Ukraine so that sanctions can be lifted to avoid damaging the German economy. . ."

At last, a voice of reason, although it's a shame that the motivation to negotiate is driven purely by economic factors as opposed to just wanting to stop the appalling and needless loss of life. Still, it's a move in the right direction.
Tim.

Who cares what the boss of VW wants.

VW should crack on with compensation for all it's customers who were duped in the emissions scandal.

Which reminds me....I need to get my claim lodged against Vauxhall.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Civilan casualties are 365 before russian invasion.

That looks wrong on wikipedia, The source is here:

https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf

 

[counter_violent]

That is completely wrong.
Because they didn't come from anywhere in Russia and settled down there with their last generation(s).

That's the same as to tell the people of South Tyrol to go "back" to Austria where they never lived.

No it's completely right. If they don't like the way the country is run, they can become refugees and apply to another country for residency or citizenship. This is Ukraine not Russia. Russian rules do not apply in someone elses country.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Ok let's assume 3400 civilian casulties for the war in Donbas, now let's look to Mariupol, 90% destroyed, 20k estimated casualties.

Siege of Mariupol - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

No it's completely right. If they don't like the way the country is run, they can become refugees and apply to another country for residency or citizenship. This is Ukraine not Russia. Russian rules do not apply in someone elses country.

That statement is pure fascism!
I recommend to think about it.

I suggest that you discuss this point of view with the survivors of the Holocaust.

Most civilians killed in the Donbas region didn't have a Russian passport, but only an Ukranian one.
There was and is no reason to call them Russian and to shoot them.
But the Ukrainian fascists did and do it.

The US is Arming and Assisting Neo-Nazis in Ukraine, While Congress Debates Prohibition

Known as a bastion of neo-Nazism, the Azov Battalion has received teams of American military advisors and high powered US-made weapons

therealnews.com

 

[CavaliereVerde]

Ukrainians in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are also many ukranians in Russia but they don't wait to be conquered by Ukraine.

@IlIlIlIlI
Thanx for your chart about civilian casualties in war in donbas, as we can see, less than 100 in the last 3 years.
Ukraine never flattened Donetsk, Russia flattened Mariupol (which is also donbas and russian speaking...)

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Ukrainians in Russia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are also many ukranians in Russia but they don't wait to be conquered by Ukraine.

"A survey, conducted by the independent Russian research centre Levada in February 2019, found that 77% of Ukrainians and 82% of Russians think positively of each other as people.[15]"
(from your first link)

As a Russian saying goes: When someone shouts about patriotism, be sure that something has been stolen somewhere.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

"A survey, conducted by the independent Russian research centre Levada in February 2019, found that 77% of Ukrainians and 82% of Russians think positively of each other as people.[15]"

I am convinced about it, there are many families split between the 2 countries, many friends.
Unfortunatelly everything changed when the russian army started to destroy thousands of civilian buildings.
It would be interesting to repeat that survey today, hopefully from a non russian agency.

 

[Atilla]

Zelensky isn't wanting to join NATO. He made that clear from the start. He does however want to join the EU and as the Ukrainian leader elected by a landslide, we have to assume that the Ukrainian people also want to join the EU.

So quit pussy footing around the BS about what Russia wants. Russia can f off.

B0ll0X to that full of lies and deceit.

1. This is primarily about NATO
2. US WMD in 25 research bioloabs conducting what is illegal research in US
3. The persecution of pro-Russian civilians at the hands of the nazified CIA and NATO trained Avoz Battalions.

I think what you mean is the US and other Western sh!t stirrers can get lost and deal with their own struggling people unable to pay food and heating bills.

 

[Atilla]

"A survey, conducted by the independent Russian research centre Levada in February 2019, found that 77% of Ukrainians and 82% of Russians think positively of each other as people.[15]"
(from your first link)

As a Russian saying goes: When someone shouts about patriotism, be sure that something has been stolen somewhere.

This is what I am thinking and that there is no democracy or opposition or anything to challenge Zelensky in Ukraine.

I'm sure the 72% must be wondering WTF this comedian thinks his doing?

 

[CavaliereVerde]

1. This is primarily about NATO

Who occupied Crimea? Putin
Who created Donbas question? Putin
Who invaded Ukraine? Putin
I think it is primarly about Putin. 😁

2. US WMD in 25 research bioloabs conducting what is illegal research in US

So let's invade every country with biolabs, every biolab could potentially create WMD.
And where are those WMD? are being used?
I see no bioweapons , only cluster bombs by Russia.

3. The persecution of pro-Russian civilians

If Russia invaded a part of Italy there would be persecution of pro russian civilians here too.

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Russia puts sanctions on Gazprom units in Europe and U.S., part owner of pipeline

Moscow has imposed sanctions on the owner of the Polish part of the Yamal pipeline that carries Russian gas to Europe, as well as the former German unit of the Russian gas producer Gazprom, whose subsidiaries service Europe's gas consumption.

www.reuters.com

Ukraine to halt key Russian gas transit to Europe, blames Moscow

Ukraine said on Tuesday it would suspend the flow of gas through a transit point which it said delivers almost a third of the fuel piped from Russia to Europe through Ukraine, blaming Moscow for the move and saying it would move the flows elsewhere.

www.reuters.com

 

[IlIlIlIlI]

Who created Donbas question? Putin

IMO that's a very dubious narrative.
The Donbass questions was created by and after the Euromaidan in 2014.
People in Donbas (and Crimea) could not really share the following elections in Ukraine.
Otherwise the reuslts would be significantly different.
Same is about his election as President.

The English wikipedia does not show the empty seats (column "vakant") of these regions in the Ukranian Parlament and also supresses that Proschenko supporters got only 69 seats out of 225 in 2014.


Almost no party from 2014 was represented in the 2019 election after Zelensky dissolved parliament - as did Poroshenko in 2014.

If russia invaded a part of Italy there would be persecution of pro russian civilians here too.

This is always the reason for civil wars, which produce some forms of fascist behavior.

And I'm not sure whether the Italian attitude would be the same if Austria would invade South Tyrol, which proves that Russophobia is a reality in Europe.

 

[Atilla]

Who occupied Crimea? Putin
Who created Donbas question? Putin
Who invaded Ukraine? Putin
I think it is primarly about Putin. 😁

So let's invade every country with biolabs, every biolab could potentially create WMD.
And where are those WMD? are being used?
I see no bioweapons , only cluster bombs by Russia.

If Russia invaded a part of Italy there would be persecution of pro russian civilians here too.

Do you really need a history lesson? You have heard of the Crimean War right?

Crimea houses Russia's main naval fleet and has done for over 100 years. You must be out of your freaky mind to think it belongs to uncle Sam. Crimea belongs to Russia. There is no contesting that. If you think not then go and try taking it. WW3 will surely ensue.

By the questions, you ask you are in denial about the people who exist in that region unless they happen to be anti-Russian. They mostly speak Russian too.

Who invaded Ukraine? US invaded Ukraine with that comedian puppet that's what.

Resources and output of Ukraine are like gold. Look at food prices all going up. Supermarket shelves out of Mazola. OMG. The US sticks their nose into all countries with natural resources. Common knowledge.


Getting fed up with discussing anything with you as obviously you are obsessed with Putin and can't seem to think or say anything else. You really have bought the West's propaganda about Putin hook line and sinker.


AND YES about WMD too, given that the US invaded a country which didn't have any and fecked up a good part of the ME. The world needs common sense balance and reality. Sadly the West is lacking all three imho.

 

[CavaliereVerde]

They all speak Russian too.

Speaking russian doesn't mean being pro russian.
Zelensky is s russian speaker.

You seem unable to write a comment without mentioning NATO or US.
Why dont' you open another topic about US imperialism, so I can agree with you about IRAQ ... Assange... stuff like that ... this is about russian imperialism.