Ukraine invasion

Atilla said:
Do you really need a history lesson? You have heard of the Crimean War right?

Crimea houses Russia's main naval fleet and has done for over 100 years. You must be out of your freaky mind to think it belongs to uncle Sam. Crimea belongs to Russia. There is no contesting that. If you think not then go and try taking it. WW3 will surely ensue.

By the questions, you ask you are in denial about the people who exist in that region unless they happen to be anti-Russian. They mostly speak Russian too.


View attachment 317987

Who invaded Ukraine? US invaded Ukraine with that comedian puppet that's what.

Resources and output of Ukraine are like gold. Look at food prices all going up. Supermarket shelves out of Mazola. OMG. The US sticks their nose into all countries with natural resources. Common knowledge.


Getting fed up with discussing anything with you as obviously you are obsessed with Putin and can't seem to think or say anything else. You really have bought the West's propaganda about Putin hook line and sinker.


AND YES about WMD too, given that the US invaded a country which didn't have any and fecked up a good part of the ME. The world needs common sense balance and reality. Sadly the West is lacking all three imho.
Click to expand...

The map tells all that's needed to know about what belongs to who.

Crimea is Ukrainian. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_territories_of_Ukraine
 
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Atilla said:
Do you really need a history lesson? You have heard of the Crimean War right?

Crimea houses Russia's main naval fleet and has done for over 100 years. You must be out of your freaky mind to think it belongs to uncle Sam. Crimea belongs to Russia. There is no contesting that. If you think not then go and try taking it. WW3 will surely ensue.

By the questions, you ask you are in denial about the people who exist in that region unless they happen to be anti-Russian. They mostly speak Russian too.


View attachment 317987

Who invaded Ukraine? US invaded Ukraine with that comedian puppet that's what.

Resources and output of Ukraine are like gold. Look at food prices all going up. Supermarket shelves out of Mazola. OMG. The US sticks their nose into all countries with natural resources. Common knowledge.


Getting fed up with discussing anything with you as obviously you are obsessed with Putin and can't seem to think or say anything else. You really have bought the West's propaganda about Putin hook line and sinker.


AND YES about WMD too, given that the US invaded a country which didn't have any and fecked up a good part of the ME. The world needs common sense balance and reality. Sadly the West is lacking all three imho.
Click to expand...

Was it Ukraines fault that the Soviet Union collapsed. Putin is a total knob. Harking back to a bygone era. HELLO....get with the program, it's 2022 not 1980.

Zelensky is a genius. not only has he played Putin, but all of the West is fawning over his leadership.
Nobel peace prize coming his way, guaranteed. And, I bet they win Eurovision !
Genius. What a guy !
 
counter_violent said:
Zelensky is a genius. not only has he played Putin, but all of the West is fawning over his leadership.
Nobel peace prize coming his way, guaranteed. And, I bet they win Eurovision !
Genius. What a guy !
Click to expand...
Oh dear oh dear oh dear c_v.
Zelensky is a clown being played by the west. His hands are tied behind his back and he's now so far into debt that he's nothing more than a puppet. Ordinary Ukrainians know they're losing the war because in every city, in every town and in every village they are burying their their sons, brothers and fathers. Yet, any protests against the continued war and refusal to negotiate with Putin are clamped down upon, instantly, and with force. This is a battle between the corrupt and morally bankrupt west and Putin, who has the support of most ordinary Russians. When BoJo, Biden and co realise they can't continue to prosecute a war that they're not only losing, but pi$$ing away billions of taxpayers money for no good reason, on top of a rising body count and total destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure (which we'll have to pay to re-build) - they'll drop Zelensky like the proverbial stone. He'll have no option but to take his m/billions and live in exile in some tin pot backwater, because if he stays anywhere near Ukraine he'll be lynched. And he'll be persona non grata in the west because he'll be an embarrassment- a reminder of their utter folly. As for the Nobel peace prize, I think the clue's in the name. He'll only be awarded that if he negotiates peace with Putin which, as I say, the west won't allow him to do. Agreed, he's a hero in the eyes of many for now, but that's only because he's backed by billions in funding and a propaganda machine in overdrive peddling misinformation and lies. Wait a while, and I guarantee you that in the fullness of time he'll be hated as the corrupt, self serving egotist that he surely is. The only thing he's a genius at - and the only part of your quote that's vaguely correct - is his acting. That, after all, is his true profession.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
Oh dear oh dear oh dear c_v.
Zelensky is a clown being played by the west. His hands are tied behind his back and he's now so far into debt that he's nothing more than a puppet. Ordinary Ukrainians know they're losing the war because in every city, in every town and in every village they are burying their their sons, brothers and fathers. Yet, any protests against the continued war and refusal to negotiate with Putin are clamped down upon, instantly, and with force. This is a battle between the corrupt and morally bankrupt west and Putin, who has the support of most ordinary Russians. When BoJo, Biden and co realise they can't continue to prosecute a war that they're not only losing, but pi$$ing away billions of taxpayers money for no good reason, on top of a rising body count and total destruction of Ukrainian infrastructure (which we'll have to pay to re-build) - they'll drop Zelensky like the proverbial stone. He'll have no option but to take his m/billions and live in exile in some tin pot backwater, because if he stays anywhere near Ukraine he'll be lynched. And he'll be persona non grata in the west because he'll be an embarrassment- a reminder of their utter folly. As for the Nobel peace prize, I think the clue's in the name. He'll only be awarded that if he negotiates peace with Putin which, as I say, the west won't allow him to do. Agreed, he's a hero in the eyes of many for now, but that's only because he's backed by billions in funding and a propaganda machine in overdrive peddling misinformation and lies. Wait a while, and I guarantee you that in the fullness of time he'll be hated as the corrupt, self serving egotist that he surely is. The only thing he's a genius at - and the only part of your quote that's vaguely correct - is his acting. That, after all, is his true profession.
Tim.
Click to expand...

The only surprise is that a few individuals actually believe all the Russian propaganda.

Ukraine was slower off the mark to distance itself from Russian influence, but it got there in the end.

Ah, the lost Soviet empire and how we should mourn it ! :ROFLMAO:

The countries that have, and will, escape the Russian clutches is long. None of them are interested in going back under Russia's control.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

Escape from empire: Ukraine’s post-Soviet national awakening

The evolution of Ukrainian national identity since 1991 has had repercussions far beyond Ukraine’s borders that have transformed the geopolitical climate and plunged the world into a new Cold War.
www.atlanticcouncil.org www.atlanticcouncil.org

Not only is Zelensky a national hero, but an inspiration on the world stage. His name will go down in history as the man who broke dictator Putin.
 
counter_violent said:
The only surprise is that a few individuals actually believe all the Russian propaganda.
Click to expand...
Agreed c_v. However, the even bigger surprise is that a few individuals actually believe all the west's propaganda.
counter_violent said:
Ah, the lost Soviet empire and how we should mourn it ! :ROFLMAO:
The countries that have, and will, escape the Russian clutches is long. None of them are interested in going back under Russia's control.
Click to expand...
Agreed, again. However, this has nothing to do with this war.
counter_violent said:
Not only is Zelensky a national hero, but an inspiration on the world stage. His name will go down in history as the man who broke dictator Putin.
Click to expand...
Agreed, Zelensky's name will go down in history. But the same can be said of Saddam Hussein - and look how he ended up!
Tim.
 
More Politicians Admit: We’re Fighting a Proxy War With Russia
". . . This has very serious implications. If the West’s aim is to “see Russia weakened”, that means prolonging the war, rather than finding a diplomatic solution as soon as possible. It means more lives lost, more buildings reduced to rubble, and more chances for accidents or missteps that lead to nuclear escalation. . ."

This approach might work (note emphasis) if there was the slightest, remotest possibility that the war could be won. But there isn't and the sad thing is that the congressmen and women referred to in this article are being duped by their own propaganda. To be fair, that's the intention: it's not to convince ordinary Russians that Putin is a baddie and that they should rise up against him - it's to convince westerners that Zelensky is a saint deserving the Nobel peace prize and we should throw untold billions at him until he's awarded it. Even a numbskull like me understands that if this war is to be won by anyone, then it'll be by whichever side controls the skies. And that's Russia. The only way around that is to turn the proxy war into one in which Nato air forces are engaged which, likely as not, will escalate the conflict into a nuclear one. It's that simple and the sooner those who support all the 'lethal aid' and billions in funding understand this the better.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
More Politicians Admit: We’re Fighting a Proxy War With Russia
". . . This has very serious implications. If the West’s aim is to “see Russia weakened”, that means prolonging the war, rather than finding a diplomatic solution as soon as possible. It means more lives lost, more buildings reduced to rubble, and more chances for accidents or missteps that lead to nuclear escalation. . ."

This approach might work (note emphasis) if there was the slightest, remotest possibility that the war could be won. But there isn't and the sad thing is that the congressmen and women referred to in this article are being duped by their own propaganda. To be fair, that's the intention: it's not to convince ordinary Russians that Putin is a baddie and that they should rise up against him - it's to convince westerners that Zelensky is a saint deserving the Nobel peace prize and we should throw untold billions at him until he's awarded it. Even a numbskull like me understands that if this war is to be won by anyone, then it'll be by whichever side controls the skies. And that's Russia. The only way around that is to turn the proxy war into one in which Nato air forces are engaged which, likely as not, will escalate the conflict into a nuclear one. It's that simple and the sooner those who support all the 'lethal aid' and billions in funding understand this the better.
Tim.
Click to expand...

So have you drawn up a list of places to live? I'm not entirely joking with that question. And what about timescale to get organised.
 
 
IlIlIlIlI said:
Ukraine is becoming a fascist country - do you want to support it?

There are striking parallels with the historical development of Nazi Germany in today's Ukraine:

Nazi Germany:
This was followed in the course of the summer by the suppression or “voluntary” dissolution of the other political parties. On July 14, 1933, the Nazi Party was formally declared to be the only political party in Germany.

Ukraine:

Ukraine suspends 11 political parties with links to Russia​

and Ukraine again today:

Ukrainian parliament officially terminates opposition party​

Click to expand...

There are striking parallels with the historic development of Putins dictatorship in today's Russia.

Poison, imprison or assassinate any and all opposition.

Curtail freedom of speech, crackdown on internal opposition media etc etc

Blah blah blah
 
counter_violent said:
So have you drawn up a list of places to live? I'm not entirely joking with that question. And what about timescale to get organised.
Click to expand...
Sorry c_v, not sure what you're driving at? But, to answer your question as best I'm able - we've no plans to move from Devon. It's the best county in England - even Mrs. timsk thinks so - and she was born in Yorkshire! ;-)
Tim.
 
timsk said:
Sorry c_v, not sure what you're driving at? But, to answer your question as best I'm able - we've no plans to move from Devon. It's the best county in England - even Mrs. timsk thinks so - and she was born in Yorkshire! ;-)
Tim.
Click to expand...

Well, the implication of your previous post was that we are heading for a nuking. Only a mad man would go down that route. Everyone keeps telling me that Putin isn't mad though.

Somebody, anybody, tell me what to believe !
 
timsk said:
More Politicians Admit: We’re Fighting a Proxy War With Russia
". . . This has very serious implications. If the West’s aim is to “see Russia weakened”, that means prolonging the war, rather than finding a diplomatic solution as soon as possible. It means more lives lost, more buildings reduced to rubble, and more chances for accidents or missteps that lead to nuclear escalation. . ."

This approach might work (note emphasis) if there was the slightest, remotest possibility that the war could be won. But there isn't and the sad thing is that the congressmen and women referred to in this article are being duped by their own propaganda. To be fair, that's the intention: it's not to convince ordinary Russians that Putin is a baddie and that they should rise up against him - it's to convince westerners that Zelensky is a saint deserving the Nobel peace prize and we should throw untold billions at him until he's awarded it. Even a numbskull like me understands that if this war is to be won by anyone, then it'll be by whichever side controls the skies. And that's Russia. The only way around that is to turn the proxy war into one in which Nato air forces are engaged which, likely as not, will escalate the conflict into a nuclear one. It's that simple and the sooner those who support all the 'lethal aid' and billions in funding understand this the better.
Tim.
Click to expand...

Interesting read what others are saying on the blogs.

Then on May 11th, Republican Congressman Dan Crenshaw tweeted, in defence of his decision to approve the latest $40 billion aid package: “Yeah, because investing in the destruction of our adversary’s military, without losing a single American troop, strikes me as a good idea. You should feel the same.”

US ready to fight Russia until the last Ukrainian...


My guess, is that's likely to be Zelensky the Judas in the pack with his 900m dollars worth of silver.
 
It is clear that US won the lottery with this war, war is fantastic for their economy, they don't need to find enemies in middle east. Defending a european democracy is their wet dream.
This does not change the fact that Putin is the bad guy and deserves to be penalized in every way, it is 20 years that he is trying to restore USSR.
 
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I sort of half agree with you but there are quite a few unintended consequences for their actions.

They will alienate their allies. Europe will see damage US is doing not just to their economy but the rest of the World.

Dollar standard is being questioned with inflation at 8% and interest rates at 1%.

Global recession will hit the US much harder than Russia or EU, Asia or the ME.

China's eyeing Taiwan. Another front will be opened for the US to engage in.

Increasingly countries don't give a hoot about US foreign policy because they see what the US stands for.

As I said before they have fecked up Latin America, the ME and now it's Europe's turn. Asia is in the queue.

I reckon most people have seen the colours of the US. Just a question of how to get rid of the brown poohs imo.


Be careful what you wish for. Ukranians already sick of Zelensky, simply that they have no voice and no representation at the moment. But after the dust settles there will be a cost to the US and UK. Reputational damage on a grand scale.
 

I was very surprised by the first comment:
RussianPlus
Russia is a lost country right now. no strategy, no opportunities, no nothing. Oleg Tinkov, one of the best Russian entrepreneurs in my opinion just had his bank confiscated basically. because he spoke out against the war. Russia will continue to go downhill. and I think it has to get a lot worse before it gets better. unfortunately it might take a long time . and life is too short to waste it on Russia. it hurts me to say these words because I’ve been promoting Russia all these years ..

RussianPlus is one of the best channels about Russia, I have seen many videos from his channel.
 
counter_violent said:
Well, the implication of your previous post was that we are heading for a nuking. Only a mad man would go down that route. Everyone keeps telling me that Putin isn't mad though.

Somebody, anybody, tell me what to believe !
Click to expand...
Hi c_v,
Okay, allow me to clarify. . .
Both sides have nuclear weapons and, as I understand it, the general idea is that each is meant to deter the other from ever using them. That said, the U.S. set that precedent in Hiroshima and Nagasaki at the end of World War II, so there's a strong argument to be made that they - not Putin and Russia - would be the first to use them in this conflict. Madness, as you must surely know by now, is endemic among all politicians of every hue and culture, be they left or right and from the east or west. Ergo, I don't believe Putin is any more or less bonkers than BoJo, Biden or anyone else one might care to mention.

The bottom line is this: is your hatred of a leader of another country that bears almost zero threat to our national security so great that you'd be prepared to go to war (which could mean a nuclear war) just to get rid of him? If the answer is yes, please tell us why? Why does it matter to you sooooo much that Putin isn't allowed to remain president of Russia, and what makes you believe whoever replaces him will be any better and will suddenly start kowtowing to the west? Can you provide a single shred of evidence that getting rid of Putin will result any net benefit to us in the west?

As an aside, I went to a local steel supplier yesterday for a price on some steel mesh for the concrete base of the extension I'm building. Guess how long the price they gave me was valid for? Just until the end of the day, that's all! Today it will be higher and higher again on Monday - and so on. All because of this conflict and sanctions against Russia. If getting shot of Putin helps to bring down the price of steel mesh (and timber) - then I'll support you in wanting rid of him - but that's the only vested interest I have in wanting shot of him. But it's hardly worth going to war over!!! In all other respects, it's none of my business who the leader of Russia is: that's entirely a matter for Russian people to decide - not you or me.
Tim.
 
timsk said:
Can you provide a single shred of evidence that getting rid of Putin will result any net benefit to us in the west?
Click to expand...
I think that Russia without kleptocracy would be much better for russians.
I can't predict their next leader but what I see is that with Putin they are going backward not forward.
They have everything: resources and talent, great education and good healthcare.
There is one thing I agree with Lavrov, I don't want a world ruled by US, but neither I want to go back to USSR.
 
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