To re-invigorate UK business

new_trader

Legendary member
6,665 1,489
@FXX, you don't bother watching any of the videos I submit. If you did you will find that all of your counter-arguments have already been addressed.
 

new_trader

Legendary member
6,665 1,489
I see the US as a Capitalist system. However as far as I can gather you would prefer an even more extreme Capitalist system.
Whereas I am giving an alternative choice and a less Capitalist system by NOT promoting the self and individual greed so much. Different countries will make different choices obviously to aid themselves as well as possible.

I don't want extreme anything, I would just like a return to true Capitalism.
 

FXX

Experienced member
1,267 259
@FXX, you don't bother watching any of the videos I submit because all of your counter-arguments are addressed.

Whats to watch, a slide deck narrated by an economist mentioning 2 studies - none of which were referenced, and charts that are shaped to support the narrative. Take EU countries, for example, a chart of unemployment comparison showing the level of unemployment relative to min wages. Any economist worth his meat wouldn't do this because employment is a complex topic in an economy with many different influencing criteria. The countries with minimum wage are very different to the countries without because of factors like

1 - infrastructure
2 - competitiveness
3 - trade relationships
4 - differences in employment law
5 - differences in welfare
6 - pricing power
7 - population and demographics
8 - education and skills
9 - government business policies
10 - is the country a net receiver or a net contributor to EU funding
11 - plenty more - its not black and white

It isn't just - oh here is a chart - showing 2 lines depicting unemployment and it proves minimum wages = higher unemployment.

I have presented you research papers covering at least 10 separate studies with actual data and all of it referenced. It is you that needs to go read up because the weight of evidence against your theory far outweighs the weight of evidence supporting it.

I'm just going to throw this in for giggles

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J Livermore

Active member
159 52
I see the US as a Capitalist system. However as far as I can gather you would prefer an even more extreme Capitalist system.
Whereas I am giving an alternative choice and a less Capitalist system by NOT promoting the self and individual greed so much. Different countries will make different choices obviously to aid themselves as well as possible.
You’ve said yourself in previous posts that the U.S. is heading towards bankruptcy. Why would you want to extend government’s reach into people’s lives and the economy if what you say is true?

The U.S. should be balancing its budget and paying off the debt in a slow, methodical way before an even bigger collapse comes along.
 

new_trader

Legendary member
6,665 1,489
One more time, for the dummies: The LAW of supply and demand is not MY theory!! The law of supply and demand is a basic economic theory that explains the interaction between the sellers of a resource and the buyers for that resource.

Labour is a resource. Raise the price of labour and demand for that labour is reduced, Ceteris Paribus.

If a trader can't understand a basic economic theory, what hope is there of a Politician ever understanding and doing the correct thing?:rolleyes:
 

FXX

Experienced member
1,267 259
One more time, for the dummies: The LAW of supply and demand is not MY theory!! The law of supply and demand is a basic economic theory that explains the interaction between the sellers of a resource and the buyers for that resource.

Labour is a resource. Raise the price of labour and demand for that labour is reduced, Ceteris Paribus.

If a trader can't understand a basic economic theory, what hope is there of a Politician ever understanding and doing the correct thing?:rolleyes:

You're right it isn't your theory, and yet you choose to broadcast that removing the minimum wage (7%) of the UK workforce will increase the demand for labour. You simply don't understand the mechanics of labour supply and demand insofar that your only explanation of it focuses on wages. You ignore the real underlying dynamics that shape it like consumer debt, business debt, interest rates, the business cycle, and the list goes on. You have taken a multifaceted complex relationship and boiled it down to wages - that is a special kind of genius.

You have ignored the research I have provided by economists covering a dozen separate studies proving min wage didn't lead to job losses. Here is another one for you chum, If your theory is right, and ignoring the 2008 recession, why has the minimum wage which began in 99, and has since increased every year, resulted in the lowest unemployment reading in the history of the UK since records began? It's related to more people being employed at the lower end of the spectrum - aka min wages.

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According to you, wage increases leads to job losses. Here is the median income, the only reason there are dips is because of recessions.
income.png

Taking this further, here is the unemployment chart for the USA with recessions marked. Job losses are a consequence of the economic activity weakening and demand, not because of the wages, but because the underlying demand for goods and services in the economy is weakening and businesses start cutting capacity. You focus on wages in isolation but ignore the business cycle, it's hilarious.

unemployment.png


@new_trader your understanding of fundamentals can be represented in a single post

new.png



And just to prove your understanding of fundamentals and markets ar wrong - here are economic indicators (some of many) scaled alongside the British Pound. Can you see how the market is correlating with the economic data!
Yes, it is utterly ridiculous isn't, to use economic data and other fundamentals like Brexit or US election to trade the markets. Stick to your candlesticks @new_trader

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Please do yourself a favour, if you want to continue this conversation and have any credibility, it would be in your interest to post some actual data or economist grade research publications. This continued battering of the perverbial wages stick with unreferenced material (aka how can it be trusted) and britannica links won't cut the mustard. I suspect however you will run off as you have done with me in the past and pretend like nothing has happened.
 
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new_trader

Legendary member
6,665 1,489
The minimum wage is just one form of Price control. Government apologists try to disguise the impact of price controls with statistics that ignore all the unseen & unintended consequences. This why I advocate studying Austrian Economics, it is the only way you can survive and prosper the intended AND unintended consequences of Government intervention.

Go to: Here to understand the impact of the minimum wage

Price Controls | The Effects of Price Controls​

 

FXX

Experienced member
1,267 259


"we now have evidence from over 25 British
studies so we no longer need to rely on our prejudices. The conclusions are clear-cut – the minimum wage has not had an adverse impact on jobs"

David Metcalf is professor of industrial relations at LSE, a member of the Low Pay Commission and a research associate in CEP’s labour markets programme.
 

new_trader

Legendary member
6,665 1,489
This is how the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics defines Employed:
REF: http://www.bls.gov/cps/definitions.htm#employed

Employed​

In the Current Population Survey (CPS), people are classified as employed if, during the survey reference week, they meet any of the following criteria:

  1. worked at least 1 hour as a paid employee (see wage and salary workers)
  2. worked at least 1 hour in their own business, profession, trade, or farm (see self-employed)
  3. were temporarily absent from their job, business, or farm, whether or not they were paid for the time off (see with a job, not at work)
  4. worked without pay for a minimum of 15 hours in a business or farm owned by a member of their family (see unpaid family workers)

Look at criteria 1. A person only has to be employed for 1 HOUR to be classed as employed. This means an employer could cut employees hours from 40 per week to 20 per week as a result of the minimum wage increase, and they will still be counted as employed. This is something the Government Apologists either conveniently ignore, or don't understand. However it is perfectly explained by the law of supply and demand.

The original video I posted already covered the bias of Government funded "studies" that purportedly show the minimum wage has had no impact. But as was mentioned, there were many flaws in the way the original (Government funded) studies were conducted. Other independent studies for the same period, using a different methodology, showed an absolute 100% correlation between minimum wage increase and reduction in employment hours or job losses.

Usually the Government funded studies completely ignore the quality of jobs. If a factory is forced to close and 10 manufacturing jobs are lost as a result of the higher input costs due to the minimum wage increase, these 10 people might end up finding another job packing shelves in a supermarket. But manufacturing and exports really make a county wealthy, not so much service sector jobs. Government funded studies ignore the impact on sectors and just focus on aggregates like "employment".

Government funded studies ignore the unseen consequences of the higher labour costs, like new small business formations. How many businesses would be started if labour were more affordable? Are there any Government studies that show this?

The Austrian Economists have been studying the impact of Government price controls for decades, they have written many books on the subject and published uncountable articles. I suppose all of these will need to be rewritten because we now have google!:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Here are two excellent videos that were posted earlier. Government apologists won't dare watch these!




If the minimum wage was so good for an economy, and there was absolutely no impact on employment, why wait until October 2025? Just do it now and make it $50/hour...the higher the better right?

House passes bill to raise federal minimum wage to $15 an hour​

 

FXX

Experienced member
1,267 259
Nobody suggested raising it to stupid levels and to suggest as much reflects a weak point. We are talking about 7 percent of the workforce, or approximately 2 million people in a nation 66 million (hardly noticeable in the grand scheme of things). Removing minimum wage wont have any impact on the economy besides increasing inequality, crime, social imbalances, and increased costs for insurance and security. If minimum wages were spread out to skilled workers you won't see any noticeable stimulus to the economy.

is removing minimum wages your best ammo for stimulating the economy? It's rather pointless
 

new_trader

Legendary member
6,665 1,489
An excellent article that expresses my sentiment exactly (Especially when you read the arguments given by Government Apologists!)

REF: http://schiffgold.com/fun-on-friday/fun-on-friday-muh-feelz-trumps-economics/

"I get really frustrated by people arguing vociferously about things they don’t know anything about. And on no subject is this more prevalent than the debate over the minimum wage. Bring up the “fight for $15” and you will suddenly get high school dropouts who can’t do basic multiplication yelling at you emphatically about the benefits of government-imposed wage floors. Because, you know, they feel like it should work."

"And I can’t really blame them. Because the average person has no clue about the economic ramifications of price floors. It’s not like they teach econ in school. And even if they did, most people just aren’t interested. To the average Joe, economics is boooooring."

"It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.”

"There were a few people making the point that when you raise the price of something, you lower demand. That means all things being equal, there will be fewer people hired at a higher wage. They were being shouted down and pretty maligned for being mean-spirited and only caring about the rich.

But is basic supply and demand. It’s the most fundamental economic principle. It’s easily proven with a little thought experiment. Set the minimum wage at $1,000 an hour. I mean, if we can just willy-nilly raise wages, why not $1,000?

That’s different.” Or so I’m told by many internet economists.

But it’s not."
 

Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,578
If anyone has got a spare million or two to spare then they should seriously think of buying up a business that will flourish after this covid crisis is over.
 

counter_violent

Legendary member
11,267 3,005
If anyone has got a spare million or two to spare then they should seriously think of buying up a business that will flourish after this covid crisis is over.

Pat, have you spent your whole life living under a stone?

This is exactly what happens in any crisis or downturn.
Those who have monetary means and the right connections hover up everything at pence in the pound.

This is basic capitalism in play.

I wish you would make your mind up about what it is you want!
 

Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,578
Pat, have you spent your whole life living under a stone?

This is exactly what happens in any crisis or downturn.
Those who have monetary means and the right connections hover up everything at pence in the pound.

This is basic capitalism in play.

I wish you would make your mind up about what it is you want!
Pity I haven't the time or money to " hover " up a few.
 

Pat494

Legendary member
14,621 1,578
Interesting to note that Pres. Macron has talked about restricting the online super stores like Amazon.
Although really convenient they are killing off small high street businesses and putting many thousands out of work.
Mostly charity shops and boarded up premises remaining .
Wake up Boris and co. !
 
 
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