The Journey from the Basement

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All others visible and not, many thanks for your telephone calls, PMs, emails, ASO's,

Not to forget Specialists, Technicians, Support Crew, 4 Market Personalities,
1 Market Publisher, I Tutor and Author, and not forgetting the electrician whose work I
did today and arrives tomorrow anyway and gets paid for the visit, and my poor suffering wife,

Whether here in the UK or overseas,

Again may thanks for your good wishes and support.

All of you and all of it very much appreciated, thank you once again.
 
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I would just like to publicly add my support to Socrates and this thread. Fordy will remember that in December last year, I too was going to take the initiative and re-start what Stoploss had started, but he beat me to it when I was on a beach in the Cook Islands. :LOL:
Anyway that's largely irrelevant - it's great that it's here and I feel that ford has been particularly egalitarian in allowing the development of the thread over the time it has been active. Many people contribute and some are detractors, I think it has been stated enough now that detractors will not be tolerated, and I'm sure Skimmy will do her duty in that regard!
Keep posting people, as I will when I feel it's relevant. Unfortunately I consider myself to be a rank amateur "retail boy" when it comes to this great game, so most of my postings tend to be inquisitive in nature!
It was the fact that I had gleaned so much from this site that led me to take on editing responsibilities in February, in an effort to give something back. It would be nice to think that the "takers" might leave us alone for a while and allow this thread to develop as far as I believe it has the potential to go!
Cheers all concerned!
Q
 
Quercus said:
I would just like to publicly add my support to Socrates and this thread. Fordy will remember that in December last year, I too was going to take the initiative and re-start what Stoploss had started, but he beat me to it when I was on a beach in the Cook Islands. :LOL:
Anyway that's largely irrelevant - it's great that it's here and I feel that ford has been particularly egalitarian in allowing the development of the thread over the time it has been active. Many people contribute and some are detractors, I think it has been stated enough now that detractors will not be tolerated, and I'm sure Skimmy will do her duty in that regard!
Keep posting people, as I will when I feel it's relevant. Unfortunately I consider myself to be a rank amateur "retail boy" when it comes to this great game, so most of my postings tend to be inquisitive in nature!
It was the fact that I had gleaned so much from this site that led me to take on editing responsibilities in February, in an effort to give something back. It would be nice to think that the "takers" might leave us alone for a while and allow this thread to develop as far as I believe it has the potential to go!
Cheers all concerned!
Q

Thank you Quercus, it is much appreciated. Let us see if we can take this higher. Don't wander off please, I think you also will benefit greatly.

Also many thanks to Firehorse, Barjon, sorry I missed you at first. Your encouragement much appreciated also.
 
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Phone calls just come in from Paris, Barcelona, Gibraltar, Jersey. Many thanks to you all. Kind Regards.
 
Hello Beanz, the donkies across the water have just been on the line too.
Will you all stop this jungle telegraph please, many thanks for your good wishes.
Much appreciated.
I am going to bed now. Thanks again.
 
OK, last call Marbella, many thanks chummy, let me go to sleep now. Much appreciated. Many thanks.
I wlll, i promise.
 
ok - I admit to the fact that I have a soft spot for history.... :)

let us see what happened in 403 BC in Athens at the trial of Socrates:

"And whatever truth there was to the rumour that Socrates disbelieved in the traditional gods ..... there was no doubt that he had an unorthodox approach to divinity. The way he talked about his daimonion, his ``guardian spirit'' or personal ``divine sign'', gave reasonable cause for concern that he did indeed ``introduce new gods'', as the indictment put it. That would have been a grievous sin against the shaky democracy. The state alone had the power to say what was a suitable object for religious veneration; it had its own procedures for officially recognising gods, and anyone who ignored them was in effect challenging the legitimacy of the democratic state. All of this Socrates was up against when he faced the 500 Athenian citizens who were to judge him"

NOW ask yourself - where r those Gods that Socrates did not recognise? In the gutter. Where r those 500 Athenians who judged him? In oblivion. Who is the only person we remember from that trial? Socrates.

WHAT IS MY POINT? dark side is an EXTREMELY UNTRADITIONAL approach, since it requires to "see" the true picture, not just "look" at indicators. The problem for the critics (Athenians) though is that this approach is the ONLY READING of the market u can trust in trading.

And, Socrates, pls be assured that there are plenty of ppl behind u this time. Myself included. Keep on brilliant work.
 
"dark side is an EXTREMELY UNTRADITIONAL approach,"

With the greatest of respect, I have to disagree. The likes of Wyckoff were trading with just price and volume in the early 1900's. There is nothing magical about trading with just price and volume. I fear that there is a danger here of creating a "Zen" like mysticism that will alienate many who are seeking to trade without indicators.
 
spike said:
With the greatest of respect, I have to disagree. The likes of Wyckoff were trading with just price and volume in the early 1900's.

Spike, there's a bit more than just 'price & volume' going on in this thread. It's way beyond Wyckoff.

And yes you're probably right - many will find the 'Zen like mysticism' not what they are looking for, and they'll not bother with that. But there's also a lot of 'down to earth' stuff that they will find of much use.

I don't think there's any need to feel alienated. Just choose what you find useful for your right now. Disregard what doesn't seem to make sense to you yet.
 
What is magical and what is not

spike said:
"dark side is an EXTREMELY UNTRADITIONAL approach,"

With the greatest of respect, I have to disagree. The likes of Wyckoff were trading with just price and volume in the early 1900's. There is nothing magical about trading with just price and volume. I fear that there is a danger here of creating a "Zen" like mysticism that will alienate many who are seeking to trade without indicators.



No, Spike, you misunderstand the statement and as a consequence you are apt to misapply the logic. I will explain to you what it is, and how it functions in reality.

The majority of people who start off with an interest in this topic do so without any previous knowledge whatsoever. Their first stab at the topic is probably the purchase of some books.
This kindles their interest. Then they start sufing the net fo further information and land on websites such as this one, which I must say is the best I have ever seen for traders,
that is of particular benefit to beginners and learners.

Then they may attend a seminar or a presentation. This leads them to visit a trade show.
In a trade show the majority of people you will see attending as visitors are looking for
information.
In my experience, and I assure you I have a lot, this is the case.

I am willing to expand further on this.


A very large percentage are first time attendees. I know this because I am invariably
invited to speak at conferences of this kind. It depends a little bit whether it is a developed
market or not . Last year and the year before and the year before that I spoke at the Palais
De Congres in Paris. Before I really get going I want to know the makeup more or less of
the audience to know at what level to pitch the discussion, so I always ask people if this is
their first visit and I ask for a show of hands.

This show of hands is invariably 70 percent or more. The remaing core of 30 percent are regulars. Of this core there is a steady element who make a point of repeating attendance to my discourses every year. and even if I cannot remember their names I recognise their faces, and it cannot be missed, as they invariably occupy the front row and the second row !
"Mes Salutations Distanguees, chers amis!"

All this is done in French for the French speaking world, (France Belgium Canada),
to the same exacting standard as my discourses in English, for the English speaking world.

I can tell you that in Spain the percentage of newcomers every year is greater than that of France as a percentage of attendees.

The same formula exists with regard to the Front Row Attendees.
"Hola., Amigos, Saludos Cordiales Como Siempre !"

Discourses for this audience are delivered in Spanish to the same exacting standards as the
French and English model. Both these countries have a rapidly emerging audience interested in this topic who are novices.

And so has the Spanish speaking world, particularly Mexico and Argentina. I all these theatres a rapidly developing interest is developing in Technical Analysis,many have new associations being formed all the time. I am telling you all this so that you have some background, as it is important for you to understand all of it by having the background.

All of this has one thing in common. All of these people are looking to learn and improve their
skills. But in all of this there is a common mistake. The common mistake is that beginnners
are temped to look for an easy solution. In this connection they start by researching indicators.
Many of them start their trading odessey using indicators. The great majority persist.
A few now begin to explore the idea of what it would be like to trade without their use.

"The few" are very few indeed. A need is not perceived to exist to explore this idea
AWAY from what has become mainstream.Therefore the techniques of legendary operators of the past are in large measure ignored or forgotten.

This is the reason why in the 1900's and later as you correctly say the likes of Wykoff (Richard D) were trading effectively using only price and volume.You have to realilse that in those days
markets were slower, there were less participants than today and these markets were
truly free markets, ie., not nannyfied. In those days indicators were not available because of the non existence of computers. All charts were done by hand. Today' sscenario is totally different because the first concept that people encounter when considering software are whatever
indicators are included in the package. This leads the individual to follow the indicator route. This is natural.

And, Software Houses are now obligated to include indicators in their packages because this is what people want., as a consequence of today's route being so diametrically different to Wykoff's era, as I explain above. There is nothing magical about it at a mechanical level. It involves the application of detailed examination followed by reasoning, but you will be shocked at how many people can actually reason their way out of a paper bag let alone abandon to what for them appears comfortable for that which appears to them to be uncomfortable, because it is unfamiliar.

Therefore the percentage of darksiders is very small in comparison to the indicator followers, also for this reason.
 
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TheBramble said:
Spike, there's a bit more than just 'price & volume' going on in this thread. It's way beyond Wyckoff.

And yes you're probably right - many will find the 'Zen like mysticism' not what they are looking for, and they'll not bother with that. But there's also a lot of 'down to earth' stuff that they will find of much use.

I don't think there's any need to feel alienated. Just choose what you find useful for your right now. Disregard what doesn't seem to make sense to you yet.

Bramble,

You cannot pick the bits you like and not the bits you do not like.
All of it is written with great effort for your collective and individual benefit.
To be picky and choosy like this is a grave mistake.
You have to take ALL THE MEDICINE for it to have a beneficial effect.
If you do not grab it the first time, keep going back until you do.
None of it is nonsense, you cannot complain I do not tell you everything.
I do not behave like others. You get what you need, not necessarily what
you want or you think you want. What you need in order for you to develop
in a proper professional manner,
is what I gfve you, incidentally which is more than many hardened
experienced traders are willing or able to do.
 
harryp said:
Socrates

Perhaps you would be kind enough to post copies of your lectures [ # 1125 ] ?

What ! In all these different languages you do not speak or understand,
in topics tailored for the particular country and audience,
word for word, you must be joking ! You are joking !
 
SOCRATES said:
What ! In all these different languages you do not speak or understand,
in topics tailored for the particular country and audience,
word for word, you must be joking ! You are joking !

Actually I was'nt joking........... I was hoping that some of your lectures were available in English.

If you felt that any of the lectures in a foreign language were particularly valuable then I'm sure that somebody could be found to do the translation.
 
Socrates, I fully agree that darksiders are the minority. I began the same jouney myself a couple of years ago and still consider myself a newbie at this art. As an amateur musician, I can appreciate that the transition from mechanical to intuitive can take many many hours of practice. :LOL:
 
harryp said:
Actually I was'nt joking........... I was hoping that some of your lectures were available in English.

If you felt that any of the lectures in a foreign language were particularly valuable then I'm sure that somebody could be found to do the translation.

Unfortunately not. I will explain. If the venue is an amphitheatre then I use two flip charts,
an overhead projector or a slide projector, usually if in addition the nature of the topic
warrants it I have an assistant in a warehouse coat, who is in charge of a big cardboard
box full of props which are used to tangibly illustrate what is essentially an intangible
concept. The audiences love this.

To give you an example that you can easily visualise. On one occasion the topic for
discussion was the mechanism that causes markets to arrive at a climax and its detection.
For this particular illustration I used a perspex box containing 144 mousetraps each one
set with two corks. To illustrate the frenzied activity that occurs at a climax a cork was dropped
through a hole cut at the top. This cork set off two in the air, which landed and set off four, which set off 8 or 10 and so on untll all of them were jumping up and down in the box to illustrate the climax of activity. When the force was spent, all the corks lay immobile.

This is a typical prop I have developed specifically to visually demonstrate an intangible
concept in a way that people will see understand and always remember.

If the venue is a Hall, then the seating is rearranged in a horseshoe as I do not like
the use of microphones. I like the audience to be as close as possible and to crowd in tightly,
because I feel it to be more effective if, as the discourse progresses I am able to move
in among them, so that each delegate can get attention in turn from one to the other.
This is also very effective in getting people to participate fully, especially if there is a point
at which the discussion would benefit from role play. Then members of the audience
are selected randomly to help by role playing in turns. This further enhances understanding.
All of my techniques in preseenting what are very serious and complicated issues have an
element of fun and surprise built into them.

On one occasion I remember I did this on board a vessel. When I finished and the audience
left their seats and crowded the podium from which I had adressed them the vessel began
to tilt to one side. On another occasion the audience mounted the stage, which collapsed with a loud crash under them. It did not bother them at all ~ they just wanted to get nearer
still to enthusiastically further discuss whatever it was. On another occasion I was to be followed by another speaker, the audience followed me into the street. A chair was found
for me to stand on so I could continue, as they did not want to go home. It began to snow
and even that did not bother them one bit. So there is an element of fun.

Sadly none of these are on video and because all of them are ad lib, because I never
work with notes as I don't have to there aren't any existing scripts for them either,
but you can now understand why these events fill halls to bursting point, people sitting
on the floor, standing up and so on. I am sorry I wish I could oblige but it is not possible.
Thank you.
 
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