The Journey from the Basement

[bracke]

SOCRATES

Thank you for your post relating to Dramatic Irony.

Are you guilty of making an assumption?

That the advertiser by chance placed an advert for Alice In Wonderland T shirts.

It may may not have been chance but deliberate because he has been reading this thread and identified a topical subject which provided a retailing opportunity.

So maybe not Dramatic Irony but Market Awareness.

I will not assume either probability.

EDIT I have just read Rognvald's post, so the advert was not pure chance but intentional. The advertiser did not know the context of Alice In Wonderland in the thread but he was aware that it was being mentioned, therefore is this true Dramatic Irony?

Regards

bracke

 

[SOCRATES]

Either of these two scenarios qualify as dramatic irony only because the discussion that attracted the
attention of the advertiser was not centred around Alice T shirts, or clothing of any sort.
The discussion used Alice as a vehicle to illustrate an abstract concept to which the advertiser is not
privy. This means this is a discussion taking place amongst a group of people whose interest is
focused not on clothing but on something else remotely different. The stark contrast between T shirts
and the nature and flow of the discussion, that incidentally only those discussing understand the
true underlying meaning of the exchanges taking place, qualify it as dramatic irony.
I will expand further, because to us it is a case of Dramatic Irony, whereas to the advertiser,
because he is not AWARE of what is going on, iit presents itself as a marketing opportunity
not to be missed. (clue)The difference then lies in the WAY you view and not what you are viewing,
this means the viewers' point of view and not what is being viewed.(clue)
None of you can complain that I don't tell you everything.

 

[SOCRATES]

Even OT1 came and had a peep and scuttled away a few seconds ago.HA ! Ha !
And then followed by u no hoo ! Ha ! Ha! Ha!

 

[bracke]

SOCRATES

"because to us it is a case of Dramatic Irony, whereas to the advertiser,
because he is not AWARE of what is going on, iit presents itself as a marketing opportunity
not to be missed. (clue)The difference then lies in the WAY you view and not what you are"

So the unenlightened one profits or may profit from the situation. It matters not that he does not understand the situation as long as he obtains the desired result. Does he need to know the full story,as long as he has information sufficient for his needs, so be it.

Regards

bracke

 

[barjon]

I wonder if we have exhausted the mind-set lessons and whether we can move on to some chart analysis (from inside the chart naturally ) or am I being too impatient.

Would I be right to say that a usual market operation by the big players will be to bring (identify) an existing trend to a conclusion; accumulate a position (consolidation period?); stimulate a significant move by attracting the herd; bring the move to conclusion by taking profits. Or something like that anyway.

It's easy enough (sometimes ) to see how this has unfolded after the event but not as it goes along in the interests of making profitable trades. So what price/volume clues do we have at each stage?

For example a selling climax (if it turns out to be one) is often followed by a technical rally (short covering?) then a subsequent reaction which, if it holds above the selling climax low, is good news for the start of a significant (possibly) up move. What would we like to see in price/volume terms as this unfolds?

 

[SOCRATES]

I wonder if we have exhausted the mind-set lessons and whether we can move on to some chart analysis (from inside the chart naturally ) or am I being too impatient.

#########################################################################
Barjon, we have not exhausted the mindset discussions because there is still a very long way to go. This is as a consequence of what I have explained previously. Read Animal lesson
No3 very carefully again, Alice and the Mock Turtle etc.,let us see if the penny drops.

What you ask below is mechanical, pure and simple. You would benefit greatly by reading
carefully Animal lesson No1, part 1, the story of the Twig Bird which I wrote for the benefit of
viewers so that you should all have realisations as a result of arriving at conclusions. I cannot and will not do the thinking for you because if I could or I did it would rob you of depth of understanding which is what this thread is all about.

However if at a rock bottom basic mechanical level you still have difficulty with the actions
you describe in your questions, you may come back to me and I will be very happy to answer
them. But I would expect you at least to have a stab at solving them on your own.

Read the above two posts and my comments on them that follow and if you are still stuck,
only then come back. But I want and expect you to at least make the effort, because if you
succeed, the enrichment of your undserstanding will be much greater and deeper than
that which would result if I comply with your request straight away.

#########################################################################

Would I be right to say that a usual market operation by the big players will be to bring (identify) an existing trend to a conclusion; accumulate a position (consolidation period?); stimulate a significant move by attracting the herd; bring the move to conclusion by taking profits. Or something like that anyway.

It's easy enough (sometimes ) to see how this has unfolded after the event but not as it goes along in the interests of making profitable trades. So what price/volume clues do we have at each stage?

For example a selling climax (if it turns out to be one) is often followed by a technical rally (short covering?) then a subsequent reaction which, if it holds above the selling climax low, is good news for the start of a significant (possibly) up move. What would we like to see in price/volume terms as this unfolds?

I am willing to help those who are willing to contribute with their effort.

 

[SOCRATES]

SOCRATES

"because to us it is a case of Dramatic Irony, whereas to the advertiser,
because he is not AWARE of what is going on, iit presents itself as a marketing opportunity
not to be missed. (clue)The difference then lies in the WAY you view and not what you are"

So the unenlightened one profits or may profit from the situation. It matters not that he does not understand the situation as long as he obtains the desired result. Does he need to know the full story,as long as he has information sufficient for his needs, so be it.

Correct !
But the enlightened ones not only get the benefit and enjoy the mastery thereof,
but delight in the effects caused by the confusion delivered by the information
shock , as well. See my post referring to the splashing gutter, Threadneedle St.
Hence this explains why oil and water do not mix.

 

[barjon]

socrates

I'm not seeking mechanical clues to short cut gaining a depth of understanding. I am trying to do two things:

1. I want to properly understand the mechanics of the market so far as the big operators are concerned.
2. I want to hone my intuitive feel for the market. Since intuition can be said to be the subconscious
drawing on acquired knowledge I need to acquire that knowledge. I will post some thoughts of market
action should you feel I am merely seeking to sponge off others.

 

[bracke]

SOCRATES


"but delight in the effects caused by the confusion delivered by the information
shock , as well. See my post referring to the splashing gutter, Threadneedle St.
Hence this explains why oil and water do not mix."

There appears to be an element of cruelty in this for no good purpose. Why laugh at other peoples mis-fortune. it does not aid one's own situation. Far better in one's own knowledge to have suceeded and to be gracious to those less fortunate.

If those who take pleasure in the downfall of others are water then I am oil but that surely does not prevent me from understanding the mind set of the water people and understanding their methods - or does it?

Regards

bracke

 

[Rognvald]

Bracke & Barjon
A person who has influenced me over the years is Carl von Clausewitz who was a PRussian general - when I first came to this site I adopted the signature "train hard - fight easy" - this was one of Clausewitz maxims. Take a look at

http://www.clausewitz.com/CWZHOME/CWZBASE.htm



I hope it will give you some food for thought

 

[SOCRATES]

I had not anticipated that my last post instead of helping you realise the existence of very cruel pitfalls was going to prompt you to follow this path of benevolence instead of the one you should be following in order to get to grips with the concept that you ought to develop a very specific mindset to deal with very tricky situations which frequently have cruel outcomes for the unwary, the unprepared, etc., because this is not a Nanny State situation, but the opposite, a very cruel Zero Sum Game, and involves the survival of the fittest, and not otherwise. What works in other arenas of life both public and private does not work here. A fright , is it not ?
You could liken it to gladiatorial combat, not a fencing class, which is what most people hope
it is, but is not !

 

[SOCRATES]

I am being prodded by PM to give you more clues but I am resisting on the basis
that if I do that I will defeat the object of the excercise, as this is for your exclusive benefit,
not mine.
And, talking of fencing, we call this type of misdirectional and misconceptional dilemma,
a "Chainmail Gate". There are three varieties, Plain, Alarmed and Electrified
You have to create your own cutters to cut through it ~ that is the requirement.
I am not doing any cutting. You must do it on your own.

Next please !

 

[bracke]

Rognvald

Thank you for the link, I shall visit it next. He has German name, that must have been awkward for him

EDIT Nein mein Rognvald not Russian - Prussian! Where's that sharp sword to cut off the other bits.
2nd Edit bracke retreats - He was Prussian but he served in the Russian Army. Now who is going to get bits cut off!

SOCRATES

I understand that the market is a tough place and that you are preparing us for unpleasant outcomes.
My own attitude has always been that I will take the money others can have the glory ie I will take the success but do so in a low key manner. If others lose so be it but I do not take pleasure or amusement in their loss.

Regards

bracke

 

[Rognvald]

"Sooner or later someone will come along with a sharp sword and hack off our arms" (and other vital parts)

 

[SOCRATES]

socrates

I'm not seeking mechanical clues to short cut gaining a depth of understanding. I am trying to do two things:

1. I want to properly understand the mechanics of the market so far as the big operators are concerned.
2. I want to hone my intuitive feel for the market. Since intuition can be said to be the subconscious
drawing on acquired knowledge I need to acquire that knowledge. I will post some thoughts of market
action should you feel I am merely seeking to sponge off others.

Understand that I do not consider you are sponging.

But this discussion is going, rightly so,stratospheric.

Please do as I said in my earlier post. Read every word, because I assure
you I put a lot of effort into this and every word has meaning.

Once you have done that and you can satisfy me you have done it, and I will know whether you have done it or not by the quality of your comments, than you may come back to me and
I am willing to accomodate you by reverting temporarily to a mechanical level to help you.

 

[SOCRATES]

SOCRATES
I understand that the market is a tough place and that you are preparing us for unpleasant outcomes.
My own attitude has always been that I will take the money others can have the glory ie I will take the success but do so in a low key manner. If others lose so be it but I do not take pleasure or amusement in their loss.

My dear Bracke,
again you are off target ! Read all the above posts of mine again, this time with care, and you will benefit if you are ready for it and if not, not. But at least you owe it to yourself if not to me for the effort I am making and continuing to make to raise your awareness. And by the way I do not take any pleasure at anyone's misfortune, that is why I am working very hard here to try to help you lot.

 

[Rognvald]

And, talking of fencing, we call this type of misdirectional and misconceptional dilemma,a "Chainmail Gate". There are three varieties, Plain, Alarmed and Electrified. You have to create your own cutters to cut through it ~ that is the requirement.
I am not doing any cutting. You must do it on your own.
Next please !

To overcome plain armour: If you are armed with a hammer, you can attack and damage the armour, and possibly the opponent as well (If your weapon damage is greater than the absorption rate). If the armour takes enough damage it becomes useless.


For alarmed armour the weapons must either not be recognised by the alarm (stealth) or must disable it. All armour has some vulnerablity and so you can get through with a weapon that fits the vulnerability of the armour. A needle weapon can get through chainmail. Goggles may protect against impact weapons but a laser beam could still blind.

 

[barjon]

Socrates

Thanks for that.

I did the home work as we went along. As I recall the Greater Spotted Twig Bird is astute, knows her objective precisely and is patient. She probes the market log and uses a variety of twigs to block escape routes until her juicy worm emerges and is carried off. The Lesser Spotted Twig Bird is a much smaller bird but with the same qualities. She watches the GSTB carefully and learns when success is looming. She arrives then with her small twig and catches a less juicy worm, but one that feeds her family well and much better than the flock of assorted birds that arrive to fight amongst the scraps.

As for Alice she finds herself in a market place where everything is not as it seems. The marketplace has a resonance of its own - logical only to the market - and she must learn to think in a very different way if she is ever to be in tune with it. This is hard work for a little girl (and even harder for a near OAP I might add!!!!)

 

[Rognvald]

Socrates

This is hard work for a little girl (and even harder for a near OAP I might add!!!!)

barjon
What is an oap these days when people are "unemployable" at 50?

Capitalism: work hard, die and awake in paradise
Communism: work hard ,die and your children will awake in paradise

Capitalism: the exploitation of one man by another
Communism: the exact opposite

Just trying to be encouraging:cheesy:

(sorry socrates - a bit off topic but sometimes we aspirants need a little light relief)

 

[SOCRATES]

What is an oap these days when people are "unemployable" at 50?

Have you stopped to consider why people are considered unemployable at 50 ?