The Great Post Thread

in response to the question. What kind of trader are you?
FXSCALPER2

I am the type of trader who doesn't know what the heck is goin going on. More importantly, I also know neither does anyone else. A happy circumstance, I reckon. I observe and see what has already happened and expect that to continue until is doesn't. When it doesn't is when I lose.
 
Re: What are the top 3 things you do that improve your trading?
1. Have specific trading entry and exit criteria.
2. Use your specific entry and exit criteria.
3. If you find any desires to use discretionary overrides on your specific trading entry and exit criteria arises from your loins; masturbate, exercise and then go and have breakfast. After that, come back and if your discretionary desire turned out to be a good one, mark it down for further research and if it stands the test of time incorporate it into your specific entry and exit criteria. If you find yourself wantonly exercising whimsical discretionary overrides on an impulsive or immediate basis; masturbate with spiked gloves on; exercise naked in Firth Street on a Friday night whilst being chained to a lamppost and eat breakfast from whatever you can scrape out from the bottom of the Dim Sook F’un garbage can in the morning.

The Bramble
 
More reality check by darkhorse:
Since I haven't seen your trades and don't know your psychology, I can't tell you what's wrong, though I assume something is or you would not be struggling. I wasn't trying to be flip in offering analogies and riddles, but rather trying to encourage you to think about the process. Also I don't think the mental rehaul process is throwing everything away and starting from scratch, not by a long shot. It's more like taking a blowtorch to everything you've amassed so far and burning away the garbage, so that only the good stuff is left. If you've been trading for a couple years you are probably close to the end of the first initial stage. Look at it this way: if you were a doctor or a lawyer you would just be getting out of grad school by now. Reordering your thinking is not throwing away what you've worked so hard to learn- it's just the opposite. It's taking a fresh start with the goal of maximizing what you've learned and getting the connections in place. 'Creative destruction' is a key element of capitalism and it is also a key element of the learning process.

I think a dedicated trader's progress can be comparable to a chart that puts in a long base of steady sideways action, and then has a major breakout to the upside (followed by a sustained uptrend if the base is good). It can be VERY frustrating to get nowhere but sideways for a long period of time- yet the knowledge base is necessary to get the big uptrend that follows. My guess is that you are much closer to 'getting it' than you realize. You have consistently asked very good questions in various threads you've posted over the past few months, so I know you are on the right track and I know you've got the mental goods. You just need to expand that habit of asking questions and working out the answers in your own head. The learning pattern is not to see a steady rise. It's to have long grinding periods of seeming nowhereness followed by intense Eureka! moments that represent all that knowledge interconnecting itself and coming out forcefully AFTER it has been connected and integrated and not one second before.

So again, I didn't offer thinking exercises to be flip. I was more trying to make the point that hints and tricks and technical mumbo jumbo aren't the solution. Developing a sense of understanding is the solution. I can't give you that and neither can anyone else. But you are likely closer to it than you think. The knowledge you've got already is like a bunch of jumbled legos in a bag, now you just need to put them together in a way that clicks. Just trying to highlight that making the connections for yourself is what is key. When you 'get' something for the first time, it is a very powerful feeling. I went through the creative destruction process myself in a huge way.

A good while ago, maybe two years in, I remember feeling like a complete know nothing jackass. I had made money and lost it, made money and lost it, made money and lost it. Made a 400% return in a few months and gave it all back. I had read at least 60 books by that time, and been studying the futures markets all day every day. I was giving regular advice to clients (as a commodity broker), regularly giving currency and index commentary to the newswires, doing articles and newsletters. But I didn't really get it. I wasn't a good trader at all. After a really bonehead move at one point I said to myself, 'You know what man? You are just another fool broker who talks the talk but can't walk the walk. When the rubber meets the road you couldn't trade your way out of a paper bag.' Talk about a depressing feeling! I felt like a complete chump, just another fast talking sucker peddling dreams I couldn't even fulfill myself. Emotional wasteland. I was basically looking at the possibility that the years I had spent were a waste, that there was some mysterious element I was missing from my gut, that I just 'didn't have it.' But my personal pity party got old pretty fast. So I said to myself 'Forget that whiny crap. If I suck then I suck and that's all there is to it. Clearly I've gotten nowhere, so I might as well start over. What have I got to lose?' I viewed starting over as an admission of complete failure- which was fair, because from a trading perspective I Had been a complete failure up to that point.

So I threw everything out, declared myself a dummy, and went back to square one from a mental perspective. I went back over ALL the old ground. ALL of it. And you know what? At that point, two years in already, is when I really started to learn. All of my true 'Aha!' and 'Wow! and 'now I SEE it!' moments came AFTER that point, AFTER I threw in the towel on my ego and started over as a self declared know nothing. The entire first two years had primed the pump and nothing more. I remember going back and reading Market Wizards and Reminiscences again, and each time it was like reading entirely new books I had never seen before. I kept saying to myself, 'how could I have missed that! It's so obvious now! How could I not have seen that before!!!!' But the reason I had that flood of clarity is because of all the slogging I had done. I had to lay that groundwork and then go back over it again before I got anywhere. I had to build a base of knowledge in my subconscious to connect and solidify later, and I had to break myself before I could break out.

I believe that before you get anywhere substantial as a trader, you really have to flush your ego down the toilet and embrace the pain of feeling like a fool, no matter how much it hurts. Most people cannot do this. They may want to, they may talk like they can do it, but they can't. You know how some people talk and talk and you know that talk is all it is, no matter what they say? When it comes to embracing the pain, that's the barrier right there. Most people are WEAK, plain and simple. That's just the way it is. See, what I am saying ADDS UP because it reflects the real world. To make it as a trader you have to be strong, mentally, emotionally and maybe even physically. So why do most people experience long run failure at trading? At the root of it, because they are weak. Period.

So the only real secret is to always treat yourself like a beginner and always be on that hunt for clarity. Thinking is the key whether you have a few rules or a truckload of rules, because thinking things all the way through is the only way to establish those connections deep down in the recesses of your mind. Tips won't do it, specific advice won't do it, generalisms won't do it, because no one knows what your flaws really are but you. If I give you advice in area A but your problem is in area X, nothing is solved. If you yourself don't know where your problem is, you can't hone in on it. All I can say is, don't see the rehaul as an admission of failure- or if you do see it that way, don't be afraid to admit it as failure. Creative destruction is vital. Going back to square one- or square seven, or square fifteen, whatever- is a necessary and vital thing to do. That's one reason why so much market specific or technical specific advice on this board is, in the end, a waste of time. You have all these peeps who have never gone deep in their thought process and never embraced the pain. And I don't care if that sounds like Freud, lack of deep knowledge and lack of trial by fire has real world effects on the trading account, period.

So again I say, thinking is hard, admitting your own inadequacy is hard, backing up the truck is hard, embracing the pain is a bitch kitty. But that's the whole point. This stuff will always be tough, if everyone in the human race were strong and smart and disciplined there would be no one to take the crappy jobs. Mediocrity is like a black hole, you have to fight with all your might not to be sucked in by it. You might be close to breaking through, you might be years away yet. But it may help to know that it depends on your knowledge and your curiosity and your strength to persevere, NOT on some magic bullet.
 
Having gained an appreciation of the strength of the trend, and its location within the support and resistance framework, ONLY THEN, finally, do I concern myself with the current price action to determine the bullish or bearish sentiment (or more particularly a potential change of sentiment) through candlestick analysis.

Lance Beggs
 
by darkhorse
===============
reality check:

Imagine all net positive traders standing in line to receive their paychecks from the market. The order of pay goes from biggest and best to smallest and worst. The guys at the front of the line always get the biggest lump sum. The guys at the back of the line always get the smallest, some of them only pocket change.

Look in front of you. See all those thousands of guys? See the titans at the very front making five hundred million a year, all the way down to guys making 30 or 40K? See all those blood stained veterans, lightning fast mavericks and ruthless soldiers of fortune? The pie is limited, and aaalll those dudes ahead of you have to be paid in full before you get to see a single red cent.

Now look the other way. How many people are standing behind you in line? Maybe like three other fish who just managed to struggle across the zero line. When you make it into breakeven land, there's an old guy with balloons in a blazer and top hat who shakes your hand at the gate: "Congratulations, you can finally pay your nut without bleeding to death! Here's fifty cents, don't spend it all in one place."

Still want to make a million? Or just a measly little hundred K? Fine. Great. First you have to get past all those other experienced hardcases who would rather eat dog vomit than give up a single spot in line. It's easy to take money from sheep- all you have to do is push the other wolves aside. Snicker.
 
By Timsk

LONG ANSWER

TA based triggers
Most trade entry triggers are based on Technical Analysis (TA) or Fundamental Analysis (FA). Traders who employ strategies based on TA tend to use the breach of an important price level to trigger their trade entries. These include (but are not limited to) things like a breach of a high or low of a specific bar or candle, or a key level of support or resistance.

FA based triggers
Traders who employ strategies based on FA will enter trades based on things like earnings announcements or other key data that is likely to impact their market and the price of their chosen instrument(s). It might be something as simple as an article in a newspaper, as in the following example, quoted from Peter Navarro’s book ‘If it’s Raining in Brazil, Buy Starbucks’:

“Despite excellent management and a solid fundament outlook, Starbucks’s stock has dropped more than 8 dollars in the last several months. At this point, the savvy investor notices a small article on the back pages of the Wall Street Journal (WSJ) indicating that the rains have come to break a deadly drought in Brazil – the world’s largest coffee producing nation.

On this news, the savvy investor buys several thousand shares of Starbucks. She’s betting that the rains will save the Brazilian coffee crop, that this will cause coffee prices to fall dramatically, and that this, in turn, will drive up Starbucks’s profit margins as well as its share price.

Over the next week, Starbucks’s stock falls 2 more dollars, but the investor sits tight. Finally, the stock begins to rise – and quickly – ten dollars in just three days. She sells her shares and is out with an $8,000 profit.”

Mix ‘n match
As a generalisation, it’s true to say that - in the past - traders have tended to be either in the TA camp or the FA camp. Additionally, the shorter their preferred timeframe; the greater their use and dependency on TA. These days, increasingly, traders are utilising a mix of the two disciplines. In the quote above, the savvy investor spots an opportunity and uses the WSJ article as the trigger to enter her trade. However, initially, the stock continued to fall and, at one point, she was $2,000 ‘offside’. (I.e. if she had sold her shares, her paper loss would have become all too real and she would have been $2,000 out of pocket.) If she was familiar with some simple reversal patterns then, in theory, she could have waited until the stock changed direction and entered at a more optimal price, based on a TA trigger. In so doing, she would have enjoyed a bigger profit and would not have had to weather the $2,000 paper loss. The basic concept of her trade was sound but, arguably, the timing of its execution left a little to be desired.

Listing all the entry triggers that traders use in this FAQ would take forever and make for rather dull reading. Instead, this FAQ will focus on the kinds of things that members would do well to consider when creating entry triggers of their own, that are best suited to their trading style and time frame. For anyone wanting examples of specific entry triggers - please refer to the threads listed in post #3 entitled ‘Useful Links’.

Trade set ups
Before going any further, there is one very important issue to address first, and that is the trade set up. Just as one wouldn’t squeeze the trigger on a riffle without first positioning oneself carefully and then taking aim; to focus on the entry trigger without first considering the set up would be putting the cart before the horse. A set up can be defined as a confluence of TA patterns or FA events which must occur first in order to validate any subsequent entry trigger. If a valid set up does not precede the entry trigger, then the proposed trade should not be taken. Likewise, trades should not be entered on the basis of the set up alone; a valid entry trigger must also ensue. For the ‘savvy investor’ above, the WSJ article could (and, arguably, should) have been considered as a set up only – rather than an entry trigger.

Entry triggers: 5 key characteristics
Here are 5 key characteristics to keep in mind when devising your own entry triggers, many of which are equally applicable to trade set ups . . .

• Keep it simple
This is really important – especially for day traders. Your set ups and entry triggers need to be simple, unambiguous and crystal clear so that you can spot them easily in real time and make an instant decision that’s in keeping with your trading plan. If you look over old trades and conclude that they’re invalid because the set up and/or entry don’t meet your criteria, then the cause is likely to be that they’re too complicated or not sufficiently black and white.

• Timing
Like great comedy, central to a good entry trigger is great timing. At some point or another, virtually all traders have analysed the markets correctly and got its basic direction right, but completely fluffed the timing of their entry. Get into a trade too late and you run the risk of ‘chasing the market’. Typically, it becomes temporarily overbought and you buy just ahead of a pullback which stops you out. Price then resumes its original direction, shooting past your entry level. Conversely, get in too soon and you run the risk of ‘trying to catch a falling knife’. Price then either reverses after having stopped you out, or, what you imagined would develop into a full blown reversal pattern turns out to be a simple continuation pattern instead. These are easy mistakes to make and are often very difficult to avoid. That said, ideally, a good entry trigger will have a failsafe facility that will, hopefully, keep you out of trades that you don’t want to be in.

• The Exit
There are a number of debates that rumble on and on about which traders never seem to agree. High on this list is the argument about trade entries and exits: which one is most important? We won’t discuss this here, save to say that there is an old adage to the effect: ‘entries define risk and exits define reward’. For many traders, risk trumps reward. However, that’s not to say that exits aren't of critical importance. Central to this is knowing where you’ll close out the trade it goes against you. If your exit is too close to your entry trigger, you run the risk of being stopped out by market ‘noise’ during volatile periods. Conversely, if it’s too far away, this might involve taking on too much risk. A good entry can’t be viewed in isolation; it needs to be viewed in the context of the exit as well.

• Profit Targets
Is there a realistic and probable expectation of the trade going into profit? Lots of traders don’t believe in profit targets as this is akin to trying to predict the future. This is fair enough, although some common sense can still be applied. Suppose you’re an equities day trader and your chosen stock has an average daily range of $2.00 and it’s up $1.75 on the day. Furthermore, it’s Friday and the markets close in half an hour. Is it really wise to enter long at this point, knowing that the stock is unlikely to rise much more and that it’s common to see some profit taking at that time of the day? Under these circumstances, the probability of the trade working out isn’t too great. To use a driving analogy, think of entering a trade like overtaking a car on a straight road with oncoming traffic in the distance. The speed you’re travelling at, the distance between you and the oncoming traffic, along with their speed, all need to be weighed up in an instant. If in doubt, sit on your hands. Anything other than a high probability trade is, by default, a low probability one.

• Context
To sum up all the above four points, context is king. This is so important, it’s worth shouting about: CONTEXT IS KING! The perfect set up can appear, followed by the perfect entry trigger, but is the context perfect too? Suppose the instrument is well up on the day and has already moved 90% of its average daily range. Additionally, there’s known resistance immediately overhead, indicators are in overbought territory, news is bearish, there’s a major announcement due out in five minutes from the chairman of the Federal Reserve and the longer term trend is down. Do you still want to enter long? Do you, do you really? Assessing the context of any proposed trade is a major advantage that discretionary traders have over mechanical traders. It also accounts for why so many TA patterns fail. Context is king and being able to evaluate it quickly and effectively is often central to a discretionary trader’s edge and the difference between their account showing a profit instead of a loss.


====thanks
 
Originally Posted by dbphoenix View Post
What matters most is the probability of reaching the downside target, or stop
 
Actually from Magee, though I'm glad it landed somewhere :)

you saved me reading his whole book. But non the less a deep gem of insight
(for me). When I read it i knew i had found a strong blowtorch to streamaline my thinking and my approach.
 
you saved me reading his whole book. But non the less a deep gem of insight (for me). When I read it i knew i had found a strong blowtorch to streamaline my thinking and my approach.

It's one of the few books I recommend to beginners, though I know of only a very few who've actually read it. He also applies the blowtorch to the whole "expectancy" thing, but let's not go there :)
 
It's one of the few books I recommend to beginners, though I know of only a very few who've actually read it. He also applies the blowtorch to the whole "expectancy" thing, but let's not go there :)

I dont (plan to) use the concept of expectancy in my evolving checklist to place an entry order or tight my stop, but it is weekend, so Im open for ideas that make me more scaleable, especially if it lowers risk.

So if you like, for weekends sake, whats are the essentials of Magee's take on expectancy?
 
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Some great points S......

I like the stuff on ditching egos......most traders fail because that think that when they lose on trades .......they were still really right and the market was wrong.....they must realise losses happen

Realising that the market is,always right is the secret to trading ......and then being prepared to continue to,churn and burn ideas and strategies until,your trading model mirrors what markets are doing as closely as possible to call the trades

.in my game which is scalping these days you have to be ready to turn on a sixpence .......egos are left by the door and you try to,embrace mr market for,what he is......

N
 
Here's a thread that's long overdue . . .

Every once in a while one reads a post that offers real trading insight. It shines brightly for a day - or even less and then it's gone - buried under a quagmire of mediocrity. Not any more! Copy and paste great posts to this thread or send me a PM with a link and I'll do it.

Here's what to do:
1. The post must be a self contained stand alone piece. If it only makes sense in the context of what was posted before or after it - it doesn't count.
2. Please quote the whole post verbatim without editing it in any way and credit whoever wrote it. Ideally, include a link to it in its original thread. (To do this, hover your cursor over the post number which can be found at the top right hand corner of every post. Click on it and then copy and past the URL.)
3. T2W trading related content only please - no external content and no lulz.

What constitutes a great post? You decide!
Tim.

PS. If this thread has legs, I'll include it in my housekeeping duties, which means that I'll edit or delete anything that's just general chat or obviously not a great post.

Great idea timsk.

There is one post I have been looking for a few days now that I meant to copy and paste to re-read later and I can't find it anywhere.

Good thread idea to have the quality content in one spot.

(btw-it was a post that listed several reasons to take/not take a trade that most trading plans do not consider.I have a feeling it was by Dionysus but could be wrong.can anyone can point me in the right direction off the top of their head??)Lol
 
Some great points S......

I like the stuff on ditching egos......most traders fail because that think that when they lose on trades .......they were still really right and the market was wrong.....they must realise losses happen

Realising that the market is,always right is the secret to trading ......and then being prepared to continue to,churn and burn ideas and strategies until,your trading model mirrors what markets are doing as closely as possible to call the trades

.in my game which is scalping these days you have to be ready to turn on a sixpence .......egos are left by the door and you try to,embrace mr market for,what he is......

N
This post is so me. NVP thanks, and I take the liberty to post it to me journal:idea:
 
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