Should vendors only be allowed to post a 'vendor section'

[ChocolateDigestive]

Perhaps your answer is contained within this phrase.

you are a very naught man

 

[barjon]

that's an interesting interpretation. I would have thought the attached is a clear breach.

why?

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

why?

That was an example of a thread that Toast started as a little trawler to get some fishes to bite. One of them bit and he suggested they pm him. It's a clear slam dunk solicit.

What's the point in having rules if they are not enforced.

Unless the Toast has written permission from T2W to advertise and solicit. If so then I apologise he would be within the rules.

 

[barjon]

That was an example of a thread that Toast started as a little trawler to get some fishes to bite. One of them bit and he suggested they pm him. It's a clear slam dunk solicit.

What's the point in having rules if they are not enforced.

Unless the Toast has written permission from T2W to advertise and solicit. If so then I apologise he would be within the rules.

started as a little trawler to get some fishes to bite And your evidence for that statement is? Or is it just your opinion?

That's the moderation difficulty - we can only go by what's actually posted, not by guessing what the motivation for it might be.

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

started as a little trawler to get some fishes to bite And your evidence for that statement is? Or is it just your opinion?

That's the moderation difficulty - we can only go by what's actually posted, not by guessing what the motivation for it might be.

Hi Barjon

let me be clear I am not knocking the mods, after all you guys are unpaid (gulp) and there is not enough of you. quite frankly it's a thankless task.

I think the true motivation behind the thread became clear in post #49 (see below). Toast states that he has written his own Time & Sales indicator and that it is in beta testing. This is all pre-vendor. He then says 'who wants some', that would have generated a LOT of pm's from newbs. These people are then targeted with follow ups to up sell from Beta to the finished indicator product.

I was rather hoping I didn't have to spell it out as with the Euro attempting new lows I can see some trading opportunities coming up this afternoon/evening. but since you asked.....

good trading all.

 

[212]

Where's 'Stomping' Steve Anderton when you need him, shirley he would ban those pair of jumped up little pipsqueaks

 

[DionysusToast]

Did you guys have to go through every post I made back to September 2011 to find your smoking gun?

What was that 4 hours? 5 ?

There's more there - keep looking!

I do CONSTANTLY spam the board, after all...

 

[Shakone]

started as a little trawler to get some fishes to bite And your evidence for that statement is? Or is it just your opinion?

That's the moderation difficulty - we can only go by what's actually posted, not by guessing what the motivation for it might be.

No. No no no.

This is one of the problems. You are starting from innocent until you see a clear sign of guilt, because you think that's the correct way. This is fine for normal members, but NOT for vendors, and not when they can easily divert the rule-breaking material to private message or to skype chats etc which you can't see. You should assume they are up to something, and even the smallest of evidence (you were given an example above) should be construed as suspicious and dealt with.

 

[Shakone]

So it's the "hidden FUTURE agenda" now, is it?

My wife is already under strict instructions to shoot me if such a suggestion ever passes my lips.

You guys have made so many presumptions about me. So - I'll tell you what.

For the doubters on here - please PM me and we'll arrange a telephone call/Skype chat. It seems there are a few issues to clear, so it makes sense to do it face to face. I have a webcam if you like to see the evil vendor.

Bring your complaints to me face to face, let me know what you think. If you want to pull apart the products or the content of my website, you are free to have full access to do so. I will even take you through my sales/post sales process, including how people can get refunds if it is not for them.

Once done, you are under no obligation to come back here and tell people about the experience. Use it as an opportunity to vent face to face.

The thing is you change like the wind. In the beginning I seem to remember you were fully against Vendors, even suggesting that they should be banished from here. You attacked them for their snakeoil. Now you're not only a vendor but you're in a thread defending vendors about being removed from T2Win.

Back when you converted to vendor you said you were just a vendor providing one simple product, there would be no training, no transfer of knowledge etc. Now if you go to your website, you see recommended trainers (obviously you've rigorously verified that these can trade, right?) in a section on training, and you were even preparing a Pdf file on some basics (knowledge transfer). So you've changed again there.

Is it such a stretch to think that you'll change your view on paid training at some point? What is the trend with you?

 

[pboyles]

Of course, not all members are happy with the practice of selling trading boxes. This is Pboyles pictured yesterday, and as you can see, he is far from convinced that these Nazis are selling genuine trading systems:

We're saved, Barjon has negotiated a promise from all vendors that they will not be involved in any sort of scamming activities. It's in writing so let's just give them a chance to prove themselves, and no more of your conspiracy theories, we can definitely trust these guys. This is him returning from Munich with his written agreement.

 

[barjon]

No. No no no.

This is one of the problems. You are starting from innocent until you see a clear sign of guilt, because you think that's the correct way. This is fine for normal members, but NOT for vendors, and not when they can easily divert the rule-breaking material to private message or to skype chats etc which you can't see. You should assume they are up to something, and even the smallest of evidence (you were given an example above) should be construed as suspicious and dealt with.

Of course some degree of ulterior motive is suspected - that's why they have to badge as vendors so that everyone is alive to the possibility. Beyond that it's normal rules and yes the latest example from choc strays across the line, but he was, as choc points out, pre-vendor at that stage and there was nothing substantive to say that he was about to embark on selling it.

Modding is a bit like trading - easy in hindsight, but in real time it's much more difficult and many is the time I've given the benefit of the doubt only to wish later on that I'd nipped it in the bud.

The next bit is not at all aimed at you Shaky, it's just me letting off a bit of steam. The real easy thing to do is just sit on the sidelines and throw rotten eggs at everyone involved with T2W without balance, without listening, without constructive comment, without any semblance of appreciation for all the hard work people put in to try and maintain and improve T2W for members, and without a good word to say about anything. Just look at the reception many of them have given Steve - pathetic.

And on top of that they have the brass neck to accuse T2W of dumbing down - well it takes one to know one.

 

[Shakone]

Of course some degree of ulterior motive is suspected - that's why they have to badge as vendors so that everyone is alive to the possibility. Beyond that it's normal rules and yes the latest example from choc strays across the line, but he was, as choc points out, pre-vendor at that stage and there was nothing substantive to say that he was about to embark on selling it.

Modding is a bit like trading - easy in hindsight, but in real time it's much more difficult and many is the time I've given the benefit of the doubt only to wish later on that I'd nipped it in the bud.

The next bit is not at all aimed at you Shaky, it's just me letting off a bit of steam. The real easy thing to do is just sit on the sidelines and throw rotten eggs at everyone involved with T2W without balance, without listening, without constructive comment, without any semblance of appreciation for all the hard work people put in to try and maintain and improve T2W for members, and without a good word to say about anything. Just look at the reception many of them have given Steve - pathetic.

And on top of that they have the brass neck to accuse T2W of dumbing down - well it takes one to know one.

I don't know about the reception being that bad for Steve. People may have messaged support or emailed him aside from the posts in the forum. A lot of it is curiosity, with a fair dose of suspicion. Which is natural, as he wasn't and still isn't really, an active member of the forum. I think activity of Steve in trading discussions is another area that could do with improvement.

I understand that you are supposed to treat the vendors the same as regards rules. But that shouldn't be how it is going forward is my point. It isn't about blaming you or other mods for allowing what's occurred before, that's really irrelevant now. At least two members have had avatars advertising their own product in this thread. That's allowed it seems. While we're on the topic of that example and a member being taken to private messages, DionysusToast has in this thread alone written

For the doubters on here - please PM me and we'll arrange a telephone call/Skype chat. It seems there are a few issues to clear, so it makes sense to do it face to face. I have a webcam if you like to see the evil vendor.

Again taking things to PM, or elsewhere. That doesn't bother me really, because I've PM'ed him before and don't consider him evil or anything, but should it be allowed for a vendor to direct members to private message or elsewhere at all?

 

[DionysusToast]

The thing is you change like the wind. In the beginning I seem to remember you were fully against Vendors, even suggesting that they should be banished from here. You attacked them for their snakeoil. Now you're not only a vendor but you're in a thread defending vendors about being removed from T2Win.

I still am against 99.999% of vendors because they sell sh!te. EAs are all nonsense as is most training.

Back when you converted to vendor you said you were just a vendor providing one simple product, there would be no training, no transfer of knowledge etc. Now if you go to your website, you see recommended trainers (obviously you've rigorously verified that these can trade, right?) in a section on training, and you were even preparing a Pdf file on some basics (knowledge transfer). So you've changed again there.

Indeed, this is because a lot of people come to me that are completely green and they want training. I could of course tell them to get lost, so that they then go & get ripped off.

To this day, I am still contacting new trainers to find more of then that can hold these people's hands. Almost every trainer I have contacted has given me their materials for free/invited me to their rooms. It's a soul-destroying task considering how much crap I have waded through. For the ones that make it to the site, I ask nothing in return. Ask John or Kam what I asked in return. Hell, ask FT71 - the guy has probably never even heard of me.

As for the 'pdf' - you are more than welcome to review the free info I give to customers, would you like a look? No obligation? You are making assumptions about it, after all.

Is it such a stretch to think that you'll change your view on paid training at some point? What is the trend with you?

No - it's not a stretch, although you will be making decisions based on your suspicions which is fair enough.

As you may have noticed, I don't have the personality or patience to train people. I didn't get into trading to be tied to a 9-5 job which is what training is. I am also in the worst time zone for it, so that 9-5 would be 9pm-5am my time.

I'd rather vet people and have someone they can turn to if they need it.

 

[wackypete2]

As you may have noticed, I don't have the personality or patience to train people.

Something we can agree on

Peter

 

[DionysusToast]

I don't know about the reception being that bad for Steve. People may have messaged support or emailed him aside from the posts in the forum. A lot of it is curiosity, with a fair dose of suspicion. Which is natural, as he wasn't and still isn't really, an active member of the forum. I think activity of Steve in trading discussions is another area that could do with improvement.

I understand that you are supposed to treat the vendors the same as regards rules. But that shouldn't be how it is going forward is my point. It isn't about blaming you or other mods for allowing what's occurred before, that's really irrelevant now. At least two members have had avatars advertising their own product in this thread. That's allowed it seems. While we're on the topic of that example and a member being taken to private messages, DionysusToast has in this thread alone written



Again taking things to PM, or elsewhere. That doesn't bother me really, because I've PM'ed him before and don't consider him evil or anything, but should it be allowed for a vendor to direct members to private message or elsewhere at all?

Possibly not - the thing is, every now & again a thread pops up where the OP is almost directly asking for my product. They come along, give a list of things they are looking for and ask if anyone knows a product that matches.

With these threads, they look like 'vendor bait' to me & I ignore them.

In the examples given, we have the following:

1 - Me saying the product is in beta. My 'victims' in this case, if any came from T2W, would have got 2-3 months of use of all of the products FOR FREE during the testing phase. At the end of the beta, as a thank you, they got offered a 25% (or was it 30%? can't remember) discount if they wanted to buy it.

Some people join every beta and never sign up. This is fine for me as I get people testing the product.

Did I overstep a boundary here? Possibly. Was anyone 'damaged' by a product they got to try free for months? I don't see it.

2 - A discussion about what was on my screen led to someone asking about how to see icebergs. I know of no other product that shows this as clearly but mine. The guy looked like he had a legit interest. I could have simply ignored him, I could have PMd him privately without letting the board know. What I did was tell him that icebergs were not the pot of gold @ the end of the rainbow and to PM me at which point he would have got the same offer to try it for free that everyone else gets.

I did this openly so that the powers that be @ T2W could see what was going on and so that people could complain if necessary.

Did I overstep a boundary here? Possibly. Was anyone 'damaged' by a product they got to try free? I don't see it.

Evil indeed...

 

[rsh01]

Only 3 mods for a forum this size is simply insane. They can't cover everything that goes on daily. It's way too much work, trust me.

if this is the issue then start paying mods money, i am sure the performance related pay carrot will sort this sites ills out.

50p a day for some third worlder (i am thinking new 3rd world here eg greece, spain etc) to monitor text is hardly a budget breaker.

 

[rsh01]

Don't worry, you can put your mind at ease, this thing is going a lot lower. The set up for t2w's final decline is looking good, and hopefully there will be lulz a plenty along the way.

its bidless at the moment, watch it go

 

[rsh01]

holds... I dunno wtf you've been watching

belgium tv obviously

(noone will get this cos the post was 10 pages back which is light years away in the lulz universe, so heres the context - belgiums/flemish/belgish are fiddlers, ok? i am playing catch up)

 

[ChocolateDigestive]

To this day, I am still contacting new trainers to find more of then that can hold these people's hands. Almost every trainer I have contacted has given me their materials for free/invited me to their rooms. It's a soul-destroying task considering how much crap I have waded through. For the ones that make it to the site, I ask nothing in return. Ask John or Kam what I asked in return. Hell, ask FT71 - the guy has probably never even heard of me.

I'd rather vet people and have someone they can turn to if they need it.

come on a little honesty please. How do you vet these people? Do you have proof they are profitable? Joel Parker, FT71, where is the evidence? you sell an indicator and your promote trainers on your website. all a bit whiffy.

 

[the hare]

come on a little honesty please. How do you vet these people? Do you have proof they are profitable? Joel Parker, FT71, where is the evidence?

Proving profitability is almost impossible if the individual concerned is determined to behave without integrity.