Scalping

This argument of the charts vs the DOM/tape doesn't make any sense...Don't you realize the chart is the DOM after the fact? I have charts up but only to see the levels. In fact, you can see the levels that are significant in the DOM like swing highs and lows before they trade, since they're always stacked with limit orders. Do any big traders trade solely with charts? Yes. Do any big time scalpers trade solely with charts? No. Why would you put yourself at such a massive disadvantage? You are only seeing 1/10th of the info. If you think the DOM is all spoofed and random you haven't spent enough time watching it. Just try scalping any volatile market without the DOM and tape...you are gonna get run over.

Well, for me charts showing what already happened is rather advantage, that's why charts and not DOM. :)

I want to trade, based on what really happened, not based on just some orders placed.

Maybe that's because I am more day trader than pure scalper looking for a couple of ticks every time.
 
Well, for me charts showing what already happened is rather advantage, that's why charts and not DOM. :)

I want to trade, based on what really happened, not based on just some orders placed.

Maybe that's because I am more day trader than pure scalper looking for a couple of ticks every time.

Sigh....

Not sure how many times I have to explain this.

Go and look at Trading Technologies XTrader. What the pros use. It has both the limit orders as well as trade executions. You seem to think that this is what people use:

5047_dom2.png


If that were the case, then I agree, it is as much use as t1ts on a bull. But it isn't what people use.

This is what they use.

ft71-11-25-200900009-59-04am.png


XTrader has volume profile, limit orders AND trade executions on it, both on the DOM & in the form of Time & Sales.

Limit Orders = intent
Time & Sales = actual orders or WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED - the very thing you think isn't used by people that look at order flow!!!

It is the use of intended orders and actual executions against that intent that gives you the edge at your entry point in terms of seeing if what you expect to happen is actually occuring there on the ground. Sure - it looks like Windows 3.1 but it gives you the information you need to succeed.

If you day trade pure price action and ignore the fact that professional day traders are trading order flow in addition to price action, you are doomed to hand them a large percentage of you winnings. Maybe all of your winnings and then some.

Do you guys never stop to think why pros are paying $650 a month for XTrader when you are paying $0 for MT4? You think you are going to take their money off them?
 
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I've decided to open the third account with a new broker to manage systemic risks. Currently I have FX accounts with Armada Markets and Alpari. Can anybody recommend a 3rd broker which could be good for scalping?

I use Oanda to scalp FX, just posted live example of a trade executed with them in the previous post.
 
DionysusToast, what's the point of explaining it? Besides, 5 minutes in the forex forum tells me all I need to know to make myself a millionaire are moon cycles and fractal geometry.
 
DionysusToast, what's the point of explaining it? Besides, 5 minutes in the forex forum tells me all I need to know to make myself a millionaire are moon cycles and fractal geometry.

Nooo... Those are too much of a work to calculate. :D
 
I get what you say, but that's already DOM + T&S, not just DOM, right? ;)

Just took a purely price action (chart) based trade, 4 pips hard stop-loss... and not bad potential as it turned out.

Just to say charts are not always too late. :D

Trendline and level re-test trade - Cornix Forex - Price Action

I never said charts were too late. They are fine for market structure which you then confirm with order flow. There's a reason prop shops sit people down in front of the order book.

As for Time & Sales. It's not just that - TTs DOM CLEARLY shows executions.

Treasury traders will use 3 x DOM and no T&S. Their DOM is XT and from that they can see the orders and the executions. I'm not sure what percentage use Time & Sales but the markets are slow enough that you can see enough from the execution view on the DOM.
 
DionysusToast, what's the point of explaining it? Besides, 5 minutes in the forex forum tells me all I need to know to make myself a millionaire are moon cycles and fractal geometry.

I'm not sure any more.

To be honest, I should be happy that most people don't use it.
 
I never said charts were too late. They are fine for market structure which you then confirm with order flow. There's a reason prop shops sit people down in front of the order book.

As for Time & Sales. It's not just that - TTs DOM CLEARLY shows executions.

Treasury traders will use 3 x DOM and no T&S. Their DOM is XT and from that they can see the orders and the executions. I'm not sure what percentage use Time & Sales but the markets are slow enough that you can see enough from the execution view on the DOM.

Yes, it wasn't you who said charts are too late.

Very interesting @ 3X DOM. But showing executions, what is the difference between that feature and vanilla T&S?

P. S. One very good trader who taught me much and trades ES is a big fan of Xtrader too, despite he trades just price alone.
 
Yes, it wasn't you who said charts are too late.

Very interesting @ 3X DOM. But showing executions, what is the difference between that feature and vanilla T&S?

P. S. One very good trader who taught me much and trades ES is a big fan of Xtrader too, despite he trades just price alone.

Easier to see on a video...

www.NoBSDayTrading.com - YouTube

You'll need to put it to full screen mode. You can seee the volume profile hase white/green/red numbers - this is the total traded at the level.

This is pretty much pure order book scalping. As per his explanation in this case it was more about what traded where more than the levels of limit orders in this trade. Not my cup of tea but I understand it.
 
Thank you, always great to know something new. Will take time to take a serious look at those, at least to understand how it's done.
 
Mr Leopard - you can do one of three things here at this juncture:



Take the floor, sir. Put some meat on the bone.

I haven't attacked you as it happens. On the contrary, I've said that some of your posts are actually quite good.

As you can see, I'm not the only one who has noticed how you operate. I suspect that you might actually be grudgingly grateful for the tip, and I'd imagine we might see a rather more moderated approach in future as a result. Trust me, it would be a more effective approach.

In answer to your final comment, you live in Thailand for fuc k's sake. If you want some meat on the bone, I suggest you head into Bangkok. To quote from possibly the greatest film ever made: "There's a reason they don't call it Bangkunt, honey".
 
I haven't attacked you as it happens. On the contrary, I've said that some of your posts are actually quite good.

As you can see, I'm not the only one who has noticed how you operate. I suspect that you might actually be grudgingly grateful for the tip, and I'd imagine we might see a rather more moderated approach in future as a result. Trust me, it would be a more effective approach.

In answer to your final comment, you live in Thailand for fuc k's sake. If you want some meat on the bone, I suggest you head into Bangkok. To quote from possibly the greatest film ever made: "There's a reason they don't call it Bangkunt, honey".

Like I say - feel free to go through my posts and point out the parts which are incorrect.

You've accused me of posting nonsense AND of posting good stuff. This is a thread on scalping - how could I NOT discuss the DOM, considering how I trade? Oh - I remembered - it's "Damn obvious DTs not trading", right? Even though I post 'good stuff' :rolleyes:

You've got a bit of a hard-on for me, I got that. You don't want a p1ssing contest according to a prior post but you do insist on coming back for a poke at me. It is just a poke, though. There's no substance in what you say.

Like I say - point out the nonsense in my posts if you like. If not - just carry on with your empty pokes/ I don't mind either way but I would prefer the discussion to be based on trading.
 
OK, fair enough.



You are very down on charts. Do you really think there are no professionals making serious money off charts alone (if you do, you are wrong).

It is pointless saying that orders change before the charts. Obviously they do - the charts are a just a visual record of executed orders. To be fair to you, the obvious seems to need pointing out round here.

DOM can be very helpful, but it has its drawbacks, in exactly the same way as a chart.

You need to be very fast and very focussed. You're trading against computers for the most part, and they have an obvious edge.

Add to that the amount of fakery going on which is simply phenomenal. And the speed, which is often dazzling. At the micro level, there are traps all day long, and people getting washed as a result all day long.

Yes, the orderflow can get you in early. This can obviously be both a blessing and a curse. Markets display extraordinary inertia in all phases, a bit late is going to be better than a bit early in the long run. Most people in the real world are going to do better entering a little late based on a chart than a little early based on orderflow

DOM is a good tool, and plenty of professionals use it exclusively. The same can be said of charts, and then there are people who use both. And so on.

I understand that you want to promote your business, but a bit more subtlety wouldn't go amiss. To people who understand these things, some of your posts are very good but others are so clunking, obvious and simply wrong that they act upon the retina in the same manner as would a scouring pad.

(y)

‘Order flow’ is fast becoming a cliché around this forum. It’s funny the way newbies' eyes light up when they are shown a video of DOM as if they have been shown the Holy Grail. Do a search on youtube and you'll find 100's of them. There is much, much more to trading than meets the eye. I don't use DOM.
 
(y)

‘Order flow’ is fast becoming a cliché around this forum. It’s funny the way newbies' eyes light up when they are shown a video of DOM as if they have been shown the Holy Grail. Do a search on youtube and you'll find 100's of them. There is much, much more to trading than meets the eye. I don't use DOM.

5 years ago it was the colour purple
6 months ago it was price action
6 months time it'll be something else
 
Why is it that when some people find a trading style that suits them they totally
disregard/rubbish all other styles. 'There is more than one way to skin a cat'.

Jack Schwager talks about this in this video, although I suppose the people he
interviewed could be wrong!! Winning Methods of the Market Wizard - Jack Schwagger - YouTube

The thread is about scalping though. Sure there are plenty of ways of trading the markets but if you're looking to be successful at taking quick moves you need to know what's happening to the bids/offers and the where the prints are hitting.
 
The thread is about scalping though. Sure there are plenty of ways of trading the markets but if you're looking to be successful at taking quick moves you need to know what's happening to the bids/offers and the where the prints are hitting.

And even then, it's tough because a lot of people are looking for the same thing.
 
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