Random or Competition?

[kimo'sabby]

kimo'sabby, please sort out your multi-quote as asked before, in this thread it is difficult to follow who is saying what.

No it's not a one size fits all formula. No formula is, is it?

You asked if it is possible to optimise in a random market. I believe so, but before going into it any further, can you define 'random' and 'optimisation'.

Why would you need a formula concocted by another person, when trying to establish a predictive position in the market??

 

[kimo'sabby]

Absolutely not. When somebody 'games' somebody else, it is because of a lack of understanding on the part of the other person.

How do you game a 'random', or non-sensitive retail participant?

 

[DionysusToast]

Absolutely not. When somebody 'games' somebody else, it is because of a lack of understanding on the part of the other person.

How do you game a 'random', or non-sensitive retail participant?

I don't share your opinion about random participants. Here is how markets are gamed

When conditions are ripe....

At a second visit to the high of the day...
Throw a few thousand contracts @ the market to get breakout traders on board.
Then put an iceberg on the offer absorbing all that buying.
Then start selling aggressively below that high to get reversal traders on board (whilst the breakout guys puke)
Accumulate contracts on the bid, sellers get nervous.
Then pull your bids, let the market come off a few ticks to some bids you have lower down.
Now accumulate all the selling @ this level.
Once you have had your fill, start aggressively buying.
Now exit as the shorts puke.

This is how you game thick markets like FESX, ES, US TSYS. Can't be done every day but it is done regularly.

 

[kimo'sabby]

I don't share your opinion about random participants. Here is how markets are gamed

When conditions are ripe....

At a second visit to the high of the day...
Throw a few thousand contracts @ the market to get breakout traders on board.
Then put an iceberg on the offer absorbing all that buying.
Then start selling aggressively below that high to get reversal traders on board (whilst the breakout guys puke)
Accumulate contracts on the bid, sellers get nervous.
Then pull your bids, let the market come off a few ticks to some bids you have lower down.
Now accumulate all the selling @ this level.
Once you have had your fill, start aggressively buying.
Now exit as the shorts puke.

This is how you game thick markets like FESX, ES, US TSYS. Can't be done every day but it is done regularly.

Yes, but your example works on liquidity. I'm not sure that one contract is worth the effort.

 

[DionysusToast]

Yes, but your example works on liquidity. I'm not sure that one contract is worth the effort.

Different markets, different games. I can only talk of the ones I trade.

 

[kimo'sabby]

Different markets, different games. I can only talk of the ones I trade.

Nonetheless, you gave a good account of how competitive markets can work.

 

[Shakone]

Why would you need a formula concocted by another person, when trying to establish a predictive position in the market??

Nope, you haven't defined your terms, so I'm out. Seen far too many of these debates that go nowhere, because two people mean completely different things and think they're talking about the same thing.

 

[Hakuna Matata]

It's a mix of Poker and Hungry Hippos.

/thread

 

[kimo'sabby]

Nope, you haven't defined your terms, so I'm out. Seen far too many of these debates that go nowhere, because two people mean completely different things and think they're talking about the same thing.

Well, that's pretty blunt, and seeing as you're not prepared to break the mould, i'll be as reciprocative as possible.

1. Open real money account.

2. fund the account.

3. trade the account.

4. Q1 Balance and stats.

5. Q2 Balance and stats.

6. And so on...

I suppose the real issues aren't worth talking about (sarcasm)

 

[kimo'sabby]

It's a mix of Poker and Hungry Hippos.

/thread

For some. For others it's more like, snakes and ladders.

 

[robster970]

It's a mix of Poker and Hungry Hippos.

I like this, will appropriate this for myself and will never give any credit to you for it's provenance.

 

[Liquid validity]

It's a mix of Poker and Hungry Hippos.

I like this, will appropriate this for myself and will never give any credit to you for it's provenance.

 

[robster970]

I like this, will appropriate this for myself and will never give any credit to you for it's provenance.

I strongly disagree and this is why:

It's a mix of Poker and Hungry Hippos.

 

[cablemonster]

I strongly disagree and this is why:

Bit of deja vu this morning.:clap:

 

[Liquid validity]

I like this, will appropriate this for myself and will never give any credit to you for it's provenance.

I strongly disagree and this is why:

It's a mix of Poker and Hungry Hippos.

 

[Liquid validity]

Bit of deja vu this morning.:clap:

I like this, will appropriate this for myself and will never give any credit to you for it's provenance.

 

[Hakuna Matata]

...

/thread

told ya

 

[Liquid validity]

told ya

Bit of deja vu this morning.

 

[counter_violent]

For some. For others it's more like, snakes and ladders.

I like this, will appropriate this for myself and will never give any credit to you or the original poster for it's provenance.

 

[cablemonster]

I like this, will appropriate this for myself and will never give any credit to you or the original poster for it's provenance.

Different markets, different games. I can only talk of the ones I trade.