People who make journals fail...

[GladiatorX]

I believe that fundamentally those who make online journals to document their trading have already failed in their psychology; In creating such a journal, to share their trades, they are ultimately being egotistical - Want to show off what they are doing to others... What other reasons could they have? They can document there trading on their own.

Psychologically, having your ego involved in trading will deter a traders efforts because it will affect there ability to trade after losses... Wanting to be right, feeling wrong when you lose, self-punishing your ego for being wrong - It all leads to 100% losses, regardless of how good the method.

So i have come to the conclusion, that if you make an online journal to document your trading; You have a very high likelihood of failure in that particular endevour...

On the other hand, a journal can be a place to recieve feedback from other traders - This again, is a sign of weakness, showing lack of confidence, an acknowledgement that you don't really know what your doing yet and a presence of wanting re-assurance and certainties in the market; Without yet understanding that no individual can predict what the market will do next and therefore its not about your ego and being right and showing-off...

So if your making an online journal - Losses are likely - Although feedback may in the long-run make you a better trade, however it will most certainty make the current efforts futile.

Admitting that you need feedback from others; assessment from others; ideas from ideas; analysis from others also highlights possibly a fear of responsability; Fear of facing the real problems people are faced with in trading; an awareness that your not yet capable of trading consistancy. Feedback may be positive' but ultimately those making online journals still probably have a psychological flaw that will hold them back from the journal being succesful monetarily.

Discuss.

 

[BoarDome]

Yes halotrader, you made 2-3 journals in the past and all of them lasted 2-3 pages max. You fail.

Most successful traders get a mentor from somewhere, so to say feedback is bad is naive. This is a total load of rubbish.

I know of two people who have journals online, both have increased their profits since starting them due to intensive analysis. Also, if other people are watching your trades or if you are trading others people money this makes you selective, in turn more profitable.

You should trade systematically and not with emotion, with the former it will not matter about confidence, as you need to take each trade to be disciplined.

Once again, this is a total load of BS.

 

[GladiatorX]

Yes halotrader, you made 2-3 journals in the past and all of them lasted 2-3 pages max. You fail.

Most successful traders get a mentor from somewhere, so to say feedback is bad is naive. This is a total load of rubbish.

I know of two people who have journals online, both have increased their profits since starting them due to intensive analysis. Also, if other people are watching your trades or if you are trading others people money this makes you selective, in turn more profitable.

You should trade systematically and not with emotion, with the former it will not matter about confidence, as you need to take each trade to be disciplined.

Once again, this is a total load of BS.

Well its a discussion; Wanted to get others opinions so thankyou.
Why does everyone call me halorader, seriously!?!?! Is there anyway i can verify that its wrong? Check my Ip or something, you will find there is no link?

I didn't mean feedback is bad; I just mean ultimately if your still looking for feedback from people on a forum then your not going to be making money in the journal... Maybe it will benefit you in the long run.

 

[timsk]

What you say is almost certainly true in some cases, but not all. It very much depends on the individual trader and their motives for starting the journal. The type of journal that just lists a succession of trades with little more than entry, exit, stop and P/L aren't really journals at all and tend to fall into the ego - show off - category to which you refer. They are largely pointless, unless the objective is to steer readers towards a subscription based website. Real journals can be very instructive and useful for both the the journalist and his/her readers. Your criticism that a journal "is a sign of weakness, showing lack of confidence, an acknowledgement that you don't really know what your doing yet and a presence of wanting re-assurance and certainties in the market" is harsh in the extreme. The flip side of that coin is that the trader in question thinks they know it all and has nothing new to learn: surely a recipe for disaster if ever there was one. A good journal can help the journalist think more deeply about what they're doing and engage their trading with greater focus and discipline than they might otherwise do. If they fail in this endeavor but continue to update the journal with their mistakes and failures, there will come a time when they are forced to address them or abandon the journal. If they are genuinely open and transparent about what they're doing, the journal will likely attract a lot of views and comments. The feedback from the readers can help the journalist and, as s/he makes progress, the readers in turn gain insights into their own trading and learn from the trials and tribulations of the journalist. This is the ideal win : win situation but, sadly, it's a fairly rare occurence.
Tim.

 

[mrsoul]

I believe that fundamentally those who make online journals to document their trading have already failed in their psychology; In creating such a journal, to share their trades, they are ultimately being egotistical - Want to show off what they are doing to others... What other reasons could they have? They can document there trading on their own.

Psychologically, having your ego involved in trading will deter a traders efforts because it will affect there ability to trade after losses... Wanting to be right, feeling wrong when you lose, self-punishing your ego for being wrong - It all leads to 100% losses, regardless of how good the method.

So i have come to the conclusion, that if you make an online journal to document your trading; You have a very high likelihood of failure in that particular endevour...

On the other hand, a journal can be a place to recieve feedback from other traders - This again, is a sign of weakness, showing lack of confidence, an acknowledgement that you don't really know what your doing yet and a presence of wanting re-assurance and certainties in the market; Without yet understanding that no individual can predict what the market will do next and therefore its not about your ego and being right and showing-off...

So if your making an online journal - Losses are likely - Although feedback may in the long-run make you a better trade, however it will most certainty make the current efforts futile.

Admitting that you need feedback from others; assessment from others; ideas from ideas; analysis from others also highlights possibly a fear of responsability; Fear of facing the real problems people are faced with in trading; an awareness that your not yet capable of trading consistancy. Feedback may be positive' but ultimately those making online journals still probably have a psychological flaw that will hold them back from the journal being succesful monetarily.

Discuss.

Hardly any profitable trader has to write down their trades, period.
You either know what you are doing or you don't; writing ain't going to help you become profitable.

 

[GladiatorX]

What you say is almost certainly true in some cases, but not all. It very muvh depends on the individual trader and their motives for starting the journal. The type of journal that just lists a succession of trades with little more than entry, exit, stop and P/L aren't really journals at all and tend to fall into the ego - show off - category to which you refer. They are largely pointless, unless the objective is to steer readers towards a subscription based website. Real journals can be very instructive and useful for both the the journalist and his/her readers. Your criticism that a journal "is a sign of weakness, showing lack of confidence, an acknowledgement that you don't really know what your doing yet and a presence of wanting re-assurance and certainties in the market" is harsh in the extreme. The flip side of that coin is that the trader in question thinks they know it all and has nothing new to learn: surely a recipe for disaster if ever their was one. A good journal can help the journalist think more deeply about what they're doing and engage their trading with greater focus and discipline than they might otherwise do. If they fail in this endeavor but continue to update the journal with their mistakes and failures, there will come a time when they are forced to address them or abandon the journal. If they are genuinely open and transparent about what they're doing, the journal will likely attract a lot of views and comments. The feedback from the readers can help the journalist and, as s/he makes progress, the readers in turn gain insights into their own trading and learn from the trials and tribulations of the journalist. This is the ideal win : win situation but, sadly, it's a fairly rare occurence.
Tim.

Interesting yes; Someone called Travis i think has a very interesting journal and certaintly what i have said doesn't apply to him, he seems to be using it as a place to note his emotions and thoughts, not in an egotistical way; a real self-analysis - He said himself his inability to discretionary trade is down to his ego and not being able to take losses and to some extent; maybe writing the journal is a further extension of the problems that stop him from Discretionary trading succesfully; Wanting 'attention' from others, wanting others to read what he says, wanting others feedback on his thoughts - even though he doesn't look to be enlightened by them after 20 years - He said his father is probably why he fails at trading, trying to impress him maybe... Writing the journal maybe comes down to the same behaviour; Wanting attention from people... Wanting attention from his father... I've personally learnt alot from what he has wrote about his psychology but i feel him even writing the journal shows a continuation of the human behaviour that has caused such difficulties in his discretionary trading; Maybe i'm wrong... I'm just discussing.

 

[trader_dante]

Hardly any profitable trader has to write down their trades, period.
You either know what you are doing or you don't; writing ain't going to help you become profitable.

Completely disagree. Committing your thoughts down to paper is not only extremely cathartic for some but is one of the most valuable and useful ways to learn.

Whether it needs to be done for the world to see is a totally different matter!

But saying all those that keep a journal will fail is ridiculous; it's the kind of statement that tries to lump traders and their edges into a black and white category.

All those simple ideologies (indicators are useless, you have to have stops, you should never average, all teachers are failed traders, all those who write books can't make money etc etc etc) are all complete and utter b*llocks.

Generalisations like this are why we have sexism, racism, fascism and a whole host of other isms.

Ultimately, there is only one truism. What works for you, works.

 

[montmorencyt2w]

Tim,

Nothing to do with this post, but I have only just noticed that you are Staff/Content Editor.
Is this a new appointment? I missed the announcement. Anyway, congratulations and good luck.

If on the other hand you have been this for yonks and I just never noticed, then humble apologies and I'll just slip out quietly...

(OK, I just checked and I'm not totally losing my marbles...it is indeed a new appointment, and I am sure, well-deserved. Buena suerte!)

 

[mrsoul]

Completely disagree. Committing your thoughts down to paper is not only extremely cathartic for some but is one of the most valuable and useful ways to learn.

Whether it needs to be done for the world to see is a totally different matter!

But saying all those that keep a journal will fail is ridiculous; it's the kind of statement that tries to lump traders and their edges into a black and white category.

All those simple ideologies (indicators are useless, you have to have stops, you should never average, all teachers are failed traders, all those who write books can't make money etc etc etc) are all complete and utter b*llocks.

Generalisations like this are why we have sexism, racism, fascism and a whole host of other isms.

Ultimately, there is only one truism. What works for you, works.

If you don't have a method that works, all the writing in the world is not going to make you profitable.
If you have a method that works, you don't need to write.
Finding a method that is profitable is a million times more important than writing down trades.

 

[trader_dante]

If you don't have a method that works, all the writing in the world is not going to make you profitable.
If you have a method that works, you don't need to write.

If you don't have a method that works, all the writing in the world may help you figure out where you are going wrong as it forces you to commit your thoughts into reality - into the written word that can be re-read, absorbed and analysed.

If you have a method that works, you don't need to write but may want to, to keep yourself focused and constantly, in your analysis, look for better ways of doing things.

 

[mrsoul]

If you don't have a method that works, all the writing in the world may help you figure out where you are going wrong as it forces you to commit your thoughts into reality - into the written word that can be re-read, absorbed and analysed.

If you have a method that works, you don't need to write but may want to, to keep yourself focused and constantly, in your analysis, look for better ways of doing things.

Agreed.

 

[Bloodhound]

As someone who does write an 'online' trading journal it's a very interesting debating point IMO. Despite having quite a few personal and trading-related failings I can assure you that one thing I don't have is an ego problem. So why did I start a blog? For the following reasons:

1) My existing trading journal on MS Word was becoming way too cumbersome and blogs provide an extremely effective and user friendly way of documenting one's trades etc.
2) I was lacking a certain focus and discipline in what I was doing and I felt that having a few people watching over my shoulder, so to speak, might be of benefit to me.
3) Although I had been making money, the way I was trading didn't feel right and I felt it required more in depth analysis.

Has it worked?
Ulitmately it has, and in many different ways. I am much more focused and disciplined in what I do now. I am also more confident and much more profitable as well. Knowing that there are others watching what I do has added a little bit of extra pressure but this pressure has forced me to trade better, trade my plan to the letter (most of the time!) and generally stay committed to the job in hand. I should add that, although I post all my entries and exits (as any trading journal should have IMO) I also allow myself a good deal of introspection and psychological analysis. This, for me anyway, is the biggest benefit of my blog - as Dante says above, the written word can be a very powerful tool. The way I trade is simple and, like most, it's the trader, not the system, that makes the difference IMO and it is me, not my system, that needs analysis. I haven't read Travis's journal but if it focuses on him, the trader, rahter than just his system, then I think it can only be of the greatest benefit.

In conclusion I would strongly recommend blogs for new traders like myself as I have found mine invaluable. Whether one should make it public - I really don't know and don't care that much. I'm not doing anything that hasn't been done a million times before by other traders so there's nothing new to be gleaned from it. By it being in the public domain I have opened myself up to some extremely helpful comments, critique and suggestions from other traders that I wouldn't otherwise have received.

All the best
Rob

 

[N Rothschild]

people who rip off other peoples work fail!

 

[plaintiger]

wow...i thought i might like this site, but this is just the sort of nonsense i don't want cluttering my mind while i'm trading. i'm outta here...take care and best of luck in the markets, all...

 

[Trader333]

people who rip off other peoples work fail!

What about Oasis who openly admit they copied The Beatles ?


Paul

 

[N Rothschild]

word for word? lol

 

[Black Swan]

There is more of a goldmine of info. on the trading journals section than any other section of T2W IMHO. I'm not just talking strategies here, I'm talking about the highs/lows of trading, reading about the excrutiating pains some members endure, the comebacks, the revelations, the characters and the test thereof....

TBH I'm eternally grateful so many are prepared to share and open themselves up so much, leaving themselves so exposed to criticism, that 'bravery' could prove to be very affirming and character forming.

Also I'd suggest very few (if any) of those journals have any ulterior motives...

 

[Black Swan]

As someone who does write an 'online' trading journal it's a very interesting debating point IMO. Despite having quite a few personal and trading-related failings I can assure you that one thing I don't have is an ego problem. So why did I start a blog? For the following reasons:

1) My existing trading journal on MS Word was becoming way too cumbersome and blogs provide an extremely effective and user friendly way of documenting one's trades etc.
2) I was lacking a certain focus and discipline in what I was doing and I felt that having a few people watching over my shoulder, so to speak, might be of benefit to me.
3) Although I had been making money, the way I was trading didn't feel right and I felt it required more in depth analysis.

Has it worked?
Ulitmately it has, and in many different ways. I am much more focused and disciplined in what I do now. I am also more confident and much more profitable as well. Knowing that there are others watching what I do has added a little bit of extra pressure but this pressure has forced me to trade better, trade my plan to the letter (most of the time!) and generally stay committed to the job in hand. I should add that, although I post all my entries and exits (as any trading journal should have IMO) I also allow myself a good deal of introspection and psychological analysis. This, for me anyway, is the biggest benefit of my blog - as Dante says above, the written word can be a very powerful tool. The way I trade is simple and, like most, it's the trader, not the system, that makes the difference IMO and it is me, not my system, that needs analysis. I haven't read Travis's journal but if it focuses on him, the trader, rahter than just his system, then I think it can only be of the greatest benefit.

In conclusion I would strongly recommend blogs for new traders like myself as I have found mine invaluable. Whether one should make it public - I really don't know and don't care that much. I'm not doing anything that hasn't been done a million times before by other traders so there's nothing new to be gleaned from it. By it being in the public domain I have opened myself up to some extremely helpful comments, critique and suggestions from other traders that I wouldn't otherwise have received.

All the best
Rob

Great post that buddy.

 

[elitejets]

I do read some utter cr*p on this board.

I am one of the people that Boardome referred to that keeps a trading journal in the form of a blog. It is private and you won't find it if you google it and I am not looking for any glory.
I started it because I have a mentor who does not live in the same country as me and it was a useful way to show my trades, my thought process and gives a good overview of my risk also. I also include my analysis and trading plans. Since starting it I have invited a few fellow traders who are interested to see it and that has given me very valuable feedback.
For me the discipline required to maintain a journal and set down my trades, my reasonining and plans for those trades, along with subjecting them to public scrutiny (if only from an invited few) has been hugely beneficial to my PnL. It has helped my focus and my emotional discipline and functions as a kind of self-imposed quality control for my trading.
The comments section when I am asked to explain a trade or a profit target or my reasoning is also very useful to me. More useful than pats on the back or massaging ego.

GladiatorX - I actually think that someone who does not have the discipline to maintain a journal for any period of time probably does not have the determination or discipline to make as a trader either.

 

[Black Swan]

I do read some utter cr*p on this board.

For me the discipline required to maintain a journal and set down my trades, my reasonining and plans for those trades, along with subjecting them to public scrutiny (if only from an invited few) has been hugely beneficial to my PnL. It has helped my focus and my emotional discipline and functions as a kind of self-imposed quality control for my trading.