Article Making Trading Journals Work for You

chump

Senior member
2,212 274
Commanderco,
I wouldn't disagree with you on most points ,but when you say "Can you make a profitable Trader out of a steady Contributor" I think you are making a statement that is too sweeping...there are other chracteristics that come into play...have you read Gary Smith "how I trade for a living" ..there's a steady contributor for 19 years who finally saw the light and broke through and as far I am aware has been successful in some 20 years since...correct me anyone if the current status on him is different to that.
I won't go into the 'other characteristics' I mentioned because they really belong on the psychology thread , but I cite one example as to why I think your statement was too sweeping.
 

SOCRATES

Veteren member
4,966 136
commanderco said:
"clear thinking" that oh so elusive little beast. It is the only thing that separates a profitable Trader from a Contributor.

Some people have it to a greater or lesser degree and have the capacity to hone and polish it.
This does not necessarily make them popular with their peers and so it is a skill that is better left to shine rather than be paraded.

Other people will never clear their minds sufficently to trade profitably and should leave the markets alone. But this is something that they must experience for themselves ... and there will be a reason (excuse) why they have stopped trading and it will not be their fault.

Mostly, in my experience a Trader who is gunshy and therefore feels that they have reached some sort of psychological barrier, has insufficent faith in their trading system and methods.
And with good reason.
Their trading system and methods are rubbish and doomed to make them a Contributor.
Forget trend, forget time frames, forget over optimisation. It is an absence of "clear thinking" that will be their ruin.

In answer to the question "Can you make a profitable Trader out of a steady Contributor"
NO. ...Not today, not tomorrow, not anytime, not ever!
But there is a good living to be made in convincing people that you can.
You are right but additionally the question should be "Can a psychologist make a profitable Trader out of anyone ?".

 

commanderco

Well-known member
363 7
chump said:
Commanderco,
I wouldn't disagree with you on most points ,but when you say "Can you make a profitable Trader out of a steady Contributor" I think you are making a statement that is too sweeping...there are other chracteristics that come into play...have you read Gary Smith "how I trade for a living" ..there's a steady contributor for 19 years who finally saw the light and broke through and as far I am aware has been successful in some 20 years since...correct me anyone if the current status on him is different to that.
I won't go into the 'other characteristics' I mentioned because they really belong on the psychology thread , but I cite one example as to why I think your statement was too sweeping.


Hi Chump,
I am just passing on my thoughts, if they appear "too sweeping", then they appear "too sweeping"

I cannot comment on a Trader who took 19 years to become profitable, it is beyond my scope. I tend to take stock of things well before 19 years have passed. In fact 19 months is a long time to travel in a circle in my opinion.

I say this because I am a Kiwi living in beautiful Buenos Aires with my Wife, for the past 18 months. When people ask why we are here, it is because we enjoy the experience in this moment.
Our wonderful 14 year old Labrador passed away a few years ago and we will get another next year when I turn 60.
I only have 3 more dogs left in me and I will be 88 when the last one will be a puppy.
For those of you who have experienced a Lab puppy, you know that you need to be prepared for the delightful experience.

Anyway, my point is ... I do not have 19 years to spend lost in a learning circle.

For those people who feel that they are, then my suggestion is try winding your way out of it through a spiral so that you do not pass over the same ground day after day.
But I digress, back to trading!
Very basically, if the price is rising in your elected time frame, then you need to be long.
If it is falling, then you need to be short.
The only time that the market is dangerous is when you have taken a position. Therefore, buy and sell into bursts and then exit. Never let a profitable postion turn negative and do not let your imagination tell you that an unprofitable position will turn in your direction shortly.
All this will reduce your exposure to a minimum.

The markets are neither cruel or generous, they simply go up and down as buyers/sellers agree to settle at more or less. However, if your head is full of cottonwool then the whole thing is similar to trying to shoot a duck from the bow of a pitching ship with a single shot 22.
The duck is moving, the ship is moving, your rifle is moving, and you do not believe that you can do it. In short, your chances are hopeless.
However, if you stabilise a couple of factors, the odds greatly swing in your direction and no longer favour the duck.
The above ramblings are purely my thoughts
Goodluck
 
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commanderco

Well-known member
363 7
SOCRATES said:
You are right but additionally the question should be "Can a psychologist make a profitable Trader out of anyone ?".


I do not believe that the odds favour the Psychologist, if the person has already failed to become profitable after a reasonable period of time and effort.

In fact in many cases, the odds are monumentally against the Psychologist and the question then becomes "why bother trying" when the person is clearly better suited to something else.
 

Keystone

Junior member
16 2
Guys,
This is all very interesting but debatable in another arena. What was this thread about again?!
Chump… I agree with your beliefs.

But can we all keep our gobs shut until Socs has his question answered?
 

dbphoenix

Legendary member
6,953 1,260
Keystone, person "a" cannot make a "profitable trader" out of person "b". Only person "b" can do that. Which is the purpose of the journal. The best person "a" can do is provide guidance.

--Db
 

RUDEBOY

Experienced member
1,157 6
Excellent thread, very interesting indeed. Good posting guys. I am reluctant to bring this thread out into the open again because it may be spoiled. Hopefully it will not be spoiled. Some very interesting reading. Top thread. Or should i say that the thread was rubbish, but, the posting was excellent. Yes, that's right, crap thread/article, second to none posting.
 

RUDEBOY

Experienced member
1,157 6
There are only a few points a person needs to realise. If you can not remmember them without the aid of a journal then you should be known as Mr Goldfish memory. MEMORY! Is it a dying attribute?
 

RUDEBOY

Experienced member
1,157 6
The kids these days don't rely on memory. Any seasoned trader should take them to the cleaners.
 

SOCRATES

Veteren member
4,966 136
commanderco said:
I do not believe that the odds favour the Psychologist, if the person has already failed to become profitable after a reasonable period of time and effort.

In fact in many cases, the odds are monumentally against the Psychologist and the question then becomes "why bother trying" when the person is clearly better suited to something else.
You have nearly landed on it but not quite. And by not landing on it accurately you exonerate the Psychologist from giving an explanation that is needed to show how it is that psychological counselling can make unsuccessful traders successful.
 

commanderco

Well-known member
363 7
SOCRATES said:
You have nearly landed on it but not quite. And by not landing on it accurately you exonerate the Psychologist from giving an explanation that is needed to show how it is that psychological counselling can make unsuccessful traders successful.


Glad to see you have carefully read my post Soc, in sufficent detail to see that it comes in more than one part.
I am not in the habit of giving complete responses on T2W, simply because the vast majority
of Contributors are looking for some kind of magic which will forfill their dreams and when it does not appear they lash out in sheer frustration and there is a very clear reason for this.

I make this statement only because it is pertinent to this thread and not because I am trying to "wind people up"
In fact my statement embraces my view of psychological counselling with regard to trading.

Soc, Why dont you run with the second half of one and complete the relationship between the Psychologist & the Trader.
If you explain it carefully and if the Readers read it with great great care, the number of members to TRW should fall dramatically until there is less than 10,000 .... But you & I know, as does any consistently profitable Trader who has sweated ALL the hard yards to get where they are, that this is never ever going to happen.
If you do not explain why this is so, then I will.
 

fxmarkets

Established member
834 50
hmm what if you or the trainer, who can used "Extreme conditioning of the subject" to the point where the trading actions carried out by the subject become muscle reflex responses.

would that technique approach work? for some... almost like the military or training of bodyguards to run to fire or muscle reflex to protect and take a hit. If they had or given the method then conditioned endlessly for how long ? no, again, no again, no again, get out , get here, again, now. no again , etc

would the military create effective traders? to do a job that may and does go against pre conditioned normality of how to behave and self preservation instincts. No doubt they can "install" discipline , would the success rate improve using those types of methods. ?

And todays "liberal Parenting" will that make it harder for the coming generations through general undisciplined upbringings to value any sense of or respect/appreciate discipline. ?
 

SOCRATES

Veteren member
4,966 136
commanderco said:

Glad to see you have carefully read my post Soc, in sufficent detail to see that it comes in more than one part.
I am not in the habit of giving complete responses on T2W, simply because the vast majority
of Contributors are looking for some kind of magic which will forfill their dreams and when it does not appear they lash out in sheer frustration and there is a very clear reason for this.

I make this statement only because it is pertinent to this thread and not because I am trying to "wind people up"
In fact my statement embraces my view of psychological counselling with regard to trading.

Soc, Why dont you run with the second half of one and complete the relationship between the Psychologist & the Trader.
If you explain it carefully and if the Readers read it with great great care, the number of members to TRW should fall dramatically until there is less than 10,000 .... But you & I know, as does any consistently profitable Trader who has sweated ALL the hard yards to get where they are, that this is never ever going to happen.
If you do not explain why this is so, then I will.
I am writing to tell you that I have read this post of yours three times, and that I agree with every word and every sentence in every paragraph, because it is obvious that you have clocked it.

I have tried in the past and had my post deleted, the owner of the fat finger being unaware of the disservice done by the act of deletion, because contained within the post was the truth, brutal and with the gloves taken off, for anyone who can reason and logically deduce to understand and use.

You go ahead and try with my blessing. I am prepared to fill in any cracks that you miss, for the benefit of the membership and visitors, from a controlled and prudent posture.

Let us see.

Kind Regards.
 

SOCRATES

Veteren member
4,966 136
fxmarkets said:
hmm what if you or the trainer, who can used "Extreme conditioning of the subject" to the point where the trading actions carried out by the subject become muscle reflex responses.

would that technique approach work? for some... almost like the military or training of bodyguards to run to fire or muscle reflex to protect and take a hit. If they had or given the method then conditioned endlessly for how long ? no, again, no again, no again, get out , get here, again, now. no again , etc

would the military create effective traders? to do a job that may and does go against pre conditioned normality of how to behave and self preservation instincts. No doubt they can "install" discipline , would the success rate improve using those types of methods. ?

And todays "liberal Parenting" will that make it harder for the coming generations through general undisciplined upbringings to value any sense of or respect/appreciate discipline. ?
The answer to your first three paragraphs above is yes, definitely, and delivered with similar ferocity and loudness and discipline as is encountered on the parade ground., under instruction by a battle hardened rutheless Sergeant Major, in paralllel.

With regard to your last paragraph above, I must comment that in general terms people are not stupid. They may be uninformed or undeducated, inept, clumsy, good or bad, but not stupid.

But they are inevitably made stupid if they are served a constant diet of stupidity and dumbed down at every opportunity as part of an agenda to render them morally and intellectually docile.

When they are ultimately rendered docile the task of raising their general levels of awareness to acceptable levels is monumental. Part of the difficulty is having to force themselves to unlearn everything they have been poisoned with.

Before this can take place they have to recognise they are poisoned in the first instance, and that, in itself is a huge obstacle for the victims to overcome.
 
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commanderco

Well-known member
363 7
I will post my thoughts on this subject within 24 hours as it is Sunday afternoon here in beautiful Buenos Aires; mid term elections are in the air and we are about to join in the fiesta.
The funny thing about Argentina, it is an unbelievably wealthy Country. There are few earthquakes, few floods, the topsoil on the Pampa is 3M deep, but they have politics.
The wise Chinese maintained that in your strive for perfection you must leave a little blemish in order not to affend the Gods ... well, we are paying attention here!

In answer to you Soc.
If commercialism overtook the focus " trade to win" then my next post would not appear .... short of death or similar that is the only reason you would not hear from me on this thread
within 24 hours.
 
 
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