I'm sitting on the 'Holy Grail' system - How can I fund this?

There's nothing new under the sun and I fail to see why the OP is so insistent that he will not discuss anything about his strat. After all, investors invest in all kinds of things they don't understand...don't they ? !!!:LOL:
 
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I can tell you as a trader that if I have such "holy Grail", with potential to make millions and I am confident about this system then I would not waste a single minute and go directly in market.

The time I found out that I have really discovered a "holy Grail", I would not even sleep until I play that system in real market. Moreover, If I found out that it really works in real world then I would not waste a single minute going to a public forum asking opinions .... that's a trait of a real trader....

Learn from legends ... what they did when they discovered their systems....

JT
 
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And which legends you are talking about.... I know some of them did.... but they traded their own account for a long time before trading what you say OPM.

Many legends even did not focused on OPM...

Plenty of them started in the CBOT this is true, many didn't trade their own cash for much more than a year however. Anyway, list em then, the true compounders. And don't say Michael Marcus, PTJ or Ed Seykota....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodities_Corporation
 
Plenty of them started in the CBOT this is true, many didn't trade their own cash for much more than a year however. Anyway, list em then, the true compounders. And don't say Michael Marcus, PTJ or Ed Seykota....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodities_Corporation

fine.. if you think so...

That is purely my believe....I think you just read my last line... if you would have read first para then you would have got the sense....

I know all legends primarily traded their own account for a long time before they got fame in wall street...

But any way different people can have different opinion....they never went to public saying “Hey I got a holy grail please come and I will make you millions”
 
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fine.. if you think so...

That is purely my believe....I think you just read my last line... if you would have read first para then you would have got the sense....

I know all legends primarily traded their own account for a long time before they got fame in wall street...

But any way different people can have different opinion....they never went to public saying “Hey I got a holy grail please come and I will make to millions”

I really don't care what you believe vs factual information, I just don't want to confuse any clueless retailer newbie into thinking they can compound their $25,000 into many millions after tax before they die. They can not and will not. Getting deeper into the facts about Wizards/legends etc reveals a common path that much more often than not involves OPM.

Anyway no they didn't go bleating on about Holy Grails and all that sh1t, but they certainly did reach out for investor or company money in almost every example. Many of the Wizards in fact started institutionally, let alone fecking moved into it later.
 
I really don't care what you believe vs factual information, I just don't want to confuse any clueless retailer newbie into thinking they can compound their $25,000 into many millions after tax before they die. They can not and will not. Getting deeper into the facts about Wizards/legends etc reveals a common path that much more often than not involves OPM.

Anyway no they didn't go bleating on about Holy Grails and all that sh1t, but they certainly did reach out for investor or company money in almost every example. Many of the Wizards in fact started institutionally, let alone fecking moved into it later.


well, I don't care as well, you may think whatever.... but certainly they are not legends if they only trade OPM.... :LOL:

A real trader ... A real legend.. traded own account and that's how they became legends...
 
well, I don't care as well, you may think whatever.... but certainly they are not legends if they only trade OPM.... :LOL:

A real trader ... A real legend.. traded own account and that's how they became legends...

No it isn't :LOL:

Anyone worth their salt is not going to take the long route of building up an acct from nothing.

Talent is head hunted, don't you know, and untold millions await those who can walk the walk.

All of this is possible for the talented trader, but not without a certain level of disclosure to the investors satisfaction.
 
No it isn't :LOL:

Anyone worth their salt is not going to take the long route of building up an acct from nothing.

Talent is head hunted, don't you know, and untold millions await those who can walk the walk.

All of this is possible for the talented trader, but not without a certain level of disclosure to the investors satisfaction.

ok, it depends on the classification of legends...

A wall street legend can be a banker, an investor, an analyst, a speculator/trader...

I was mainly talking about speculator/trader community....

you can not place JPM,Buffet,Gann, Livermoor in the same line....
 
Yo Toastie how's it rolling, how's the wife and baby ?

Umm, probably not quite a baby any more.

;)

Haven't heard from Rathcoole in ages, have you been seeing him at all actually, lives in your part of the world too doesn't he.

All good here, Zoe is 4 now.

I do see Rath occasionally, he seems to have his hands full with his 2 girls.
 
Random, in the spirit of that question of $100 -> $100m, what do you think is a more realistic goal for the successful retail trader?
 
Random, in the spirit of that question of $100 -> $100m, what do you think is a more realistic goal for the successful retail trader?

It's such a massive topic Viel that I lack the motivation required to go into any form of detail. What I would say is that it takes proper planning, accounting, supplier relations, funding etc to run a close company corner shop that intends to produce £50,000 p.a. for each of the directors with many long hours at work for each of them. Yet, in trading, people take the insane notion of "10 pips a day, compounded" and consider that to be a comprehensive business plan or listen to some of the other dreadful sh1te that's out there on their way to a supposed million a year, hoping to work a few hours at it a day. I posted around this in an earlier rant directed at lack of professionalism in the business plans of many retail traders:

"If people prefer the idea of making a million dowwar by starting with a few grand and constantly generating unheard of returns to a proper and comprehensive business plan then more power to them. If they think they can do something that has never been proven possible in the modern era then they need more than I can offer them in terms of advice.

Instead of considering a reasonable return on reliable capital under their control, inflation adjusted drawings on a 10 yr basis, software, tax, contingencies, capital repayments as they arise, working capital generation, then they can write down the number £5,000 with a little pencil arrow to £1,000,000. Business plan = done.

Instead of factoring in the reality of seed and AUM scaling later in their careers and how 20% on a realistic initial seed might look like to them, plus 2% back to the introducing firm then they can just take that £1,000,000 and draw an arrow to a very nice mansion they saw in Hamptons estate agents."

In my opinion if you don't have a 10 year plan that isn't within the realms of some form of reality, then give in now. Many have a pipe dream and nothing more - I think deep down they don't WANT to consider the reality of paying their day to day expenses with variable income such as trading offers, because once you write it down, you realise how damn hard it's going to be without decent capital.

Instead of doing that, they become aggressive know-it-alls quoting dead and old traders left, right and centre, thinking this will somehow become their reality too...? It probably shouldn't bother me if the majority of competition out there is unsophisticated.

In summary, if what you are doing doesn't feel like work or running a business or you're not on a trajectory to have it that way, then the idea you're going to be showered in riches because of some savant talent you possess is beyond a joke.
 
I find it amusing how people think the CBOT pit stories are relevant to the modern day when the people who made their money during that era are the very first to say the inefficiencies that made them rich no longer exist and have all diversified their funds, heavily influenced by Renaissance et al.

It suggests a completely blinkered read of the Wizards series where Schwager has gone to significant lengths to note the incredible inefficiencies back then and the ease of riding moves in the pit. News trades didn't used to happen in 3 ticks for 50 pts. You could fill or kill all the way up. That was the era where greed rather than sense really was a killer of bankrolls. Even Trading in the Zone was relevant back then. Now you need an incredible amount of sense with application and greed to sustain that.

But whatever, if you want to believe you can turn 25k into many millions during this era then feel free. You'd be incredibly famous for doing so and finally internet warriors would have a source to cite for their outrageous dreams.

xoxo (Gossip Girl)
Random, Im not looking to get into it, just a couple o things.
Re the wizards etc (fairdos on the inefficiencies btw). In the pit or upstairs, real or perceived edges, approach etc, all these guys have one thing in common, they have their mind set right. This is 90% of what i take away from series, the other 10% being 'good stories'.
With that said, in simple terms, why do you think Trading in the Zone is no longer relevant to todays market?
 
No it isn't :LOL:

Anyone worth their salt is not going to take the long route of building up an acct from nothing.


Talent is head hunted, don't you know, and untold millions await those who can walk the walk.

All of this is possible for the talented trader, but not without a certain level of disclosure to the investors satisfaction.
I do get the allure of OPM and the advantages it offers. More so I get the want to be answerable to no-one, i think theres some salt in that.
 
Random, Im not looking to get into it, just a couple o things.
Re the wizards etc (fairdos on the inefficiencies btw). In the pit or upstairs, real or perceived edges, approach etc, all these guys have one thing in common, they have their mind set right. This is 90% of what i take away from series, the other 10% being 'good stories'.
With that said, in simple terms, why do you think Trading in the Zone is no longer relevant to todays market?

My beef with it is that it may convince a lot of retailers who never had an edge over buy and hold (and pretty much entirely lack the proper metrics to figure out if they do have any kind of long term edge) to trade that non existent edge. As a new trader, there is little point in becoming convinced it's YOU the trader who is failing when it's also extremely likely your methods are failing too. There's this absolute BS line going around that so many methods work, you just have to trade it, remain calm and all this. Well if that were true then any old dipsh1t could code a MACD cross with whatever PA they look for in EasyLanguage and remove their mind from the equation entirely. The book is not written with the modern, undercapitalised, over leveraged, often clueless and entirely solitary trader in mind.

The book reeks of an 80s institutional trader to me and were people here looking to trade what they'd talked about in the morning meeting or heard over squawk from a sister bank and needed help getting their head right after a few bad trades, then I can see how it might apply...

Method > psychology. You get your head right when you know what you're trading works and has done for at least two years because all trading doubt emanates from the fear that maybe you don't have an edge and maybe you are just another schmuck in the fish pond about to lose all your hard earned. This is a very healthy human fear designed to protect your livelihood and I can't imagine anything worse than overcoming it before you have earned the right and the cash to overcome it. That's why I find trading psychology books designed to shortcut these shortcomings to be dangerous.

I also find it interesting that a book like this based on anecdotal evidence is one of the most popular and lauded. Now if only there was a method book out there that could actually make you 50 grand a year with a small starting bankroll and gave empirical evidence for this... funny how that doesn't exist and the method books that do exist always add some opaque variance to the method to avoid backtesting proving how crap it is (i.e. adding an anecdotal element). Intereeesting.
 
I do get the allure of OPM and the advantages it offers. More so I get the want to be answerable to no-one, i think theres some salt in that.

You can just link your account with a corporate account and trade both at the same time (so your primary earnings remain static AND you have the participation share in the fund account) - managing investor money just means taking a very low risk profile on the other account (i.e. re-sizing cars so that adjusted to the investor money on your historical max there's no element of a D/D > ~10%). If you were ever in the position of being offered OPM by a serious player then you should consider it as it's not really the same as being answerable to an employer etc.

Anyway, I don't want people to think I'm saying everyone should be aiming for big AUM and mega fiscal success and all this - I'm not at all, doesn't take a genius to realise there's not much happiness at the end of that rainbow. That obviously comes with health, family, pursuits that give you a sense of achievement etc. I just want to realign the thinking of those that do desire a step up and aren't putting in the work or thought necessary.
 
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