I'm sitting on the 'Holy Grail' system - How can I fund this?

[DaxDestroyer]

30 MILLION in year three. Markus ... who wants to wait 3 years?

 

[DaxDestroyer]

Well - here I am.

I changed my trading a bit ... so I'm in the "trial-phase" ... When I have some history with my new set ups ... I might just contact you ... at least for an opinion ... as networking while being in Cyprus is not top level

Have a good day!

DD

 

[BSD]

Haha yup mate, only chimps that aren't just stoned, no sir, not even close, no, it's chimps that are stoned on a BIG MASSIVE MOTHER of all Joints is who !!!

Hope you've had a good trading day so far.

 

[random12345]

Largely agree with the rest of your post, but I'm not sure this quote
is applicable here?

His frequency is too low for 3 months to generate a decent sample size.
I'm not going to argue over whether you know people who would
back a live test with a $1K bankroll, if you do fair enough.

Personally, for me a live test with an account that small risks
skewing a few things.
$1K pretty much means micro lots, so no partial fills or extended fill time
from time to time (basically average fill speed is reduced).
Yes its arguable that is a minor point for a low frequency test,
but then sample size rears its head as mentioned earlier.

I don't know it may or may not be a minor point, but I think a live test (other than live bug testing)
should be 1-3 lots minimum.
Even if its not essential as you say, it certainly can't hurt and goes in his favour.

Hmm I agree with LV - I have been on and off with retail funding involvement in the past few years and you'd have to deal with some absolute monkey of a portfolio manager to get funding after 3 months of live. They're required to explain losses as much as anyone else - especially with all the accumulated losses funds with toxic assets have been experiencing since 2008.

For UK examples, Man and ISAM both fund retailers as junior funds and they have had significant problems in the past few years, especially ISAM in 2013 and there's no way they'd laugh off a few million like it's a joke, this is absolute fantasy.

As I've said before in this thread, dealing with bigger money at a low participation is not all roses - not only do you get kicked into a higher tax bracket on your absolute profit within the Ltd company, but you are looking at quite a small amount of money yourself even for a top return when you consider the average junior fund seed. I'd also imagine some of the dodgy children with systems that kick around the internet would struggle for FCA reg, something else you'd be required to self fund if you engaged a lawyer.

Then again the OP is from the US so he can use an introducing agent's NFA reg and the LLCs there are tax transparent, but less efficient in the first instance.

The list goes on.

 

[BSD]

Seriously guys, this needs to be seen in the proper context.

Someone here wrote this gem way back summing up trading perfectly:

yeah - but when you are in an environment that sometimes gives the opportunity to make several thousand pounds in 10 minutes or there abouts, you start to realise that what other people think of you is pointless. it often comes from jealousy. after all, these 'funny people' from outside have often worked under this dumb belief that success comes from qualifications and working all the hours under the sun to 'please the boss' and other rat race stuff. talk about a wasted life! whos the d!ckhead now?

life is too short.

lift up your skirt, grab your balls AND MAKE SOME MONEY!!! - oh - and have some fun!!

yours,

captain sensible.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tra...traders-pit-stories-thread-11.html#post223962

I don't know how many people including Market Wizards and floor traders started out trading with less than 50K and THEY weren't making lots of noise about having unearthed the non-existing holy grail.

Our very own twi here who started at a prop firm and is now at a hedge fund like most of his prop colleagues back when never kept more than 20 - 40k in his account while making 25 - 35% month !

Market wizard Tom Baldwin started out with 25K out which he had to pay his floor seat lease of 2K per month, PLUS his living costs, and he had a pregnant wife at home.

These guys never claimed to have found the holy grail, they just had the BALLS you need to make it as a trader is what THEY had !!!

And here' a guy claiming to have a holy grail...

50K of his own money...

presumably a job or what's he living from now ???

an AUTOMATED system alllowing him to, umm, keep the day job...

rich friends willing to back him...


BUT HE DOESN'T HAVE THE BALLS TO GET GOING and is instead coming on here asking for a bit-of-advice cum funding from some gullible muppet with more greed than brains ???

This ranks as the funniest thread of the year so far.

 

[random12345]

Market wizard Tom Baldwin started out with 25K out which he had to pay his floor seat lease of 2K per month, PLUS his living costs, and he had a pregnant wife at home.

I find it amusing how people think the CBOT pit stories are relevant to the modern day when the people who made their money during that era are the very first to say the inefficiencies that made them rich no longer exist and have all diversified their funds, heavily influenced by Renaissance et al.

It suggests a completely blinkered read of the Wizards series where Schwager has gone to significant lengths to note the incredible inefficiencies back then and the ease of riding moves in the pit. News trades didn't used to happen in 3 ticks for 50 pts. You could fill or kill all the way up. That was the era where greed rather than sense really was a killer of bankrolls. Even Trading in the Zone was relevant back then. Now you need an incredible amount of sense with application and greed to sustain that.

But whatever, if you want to believe you can turn 25k into many millions during this era then feel free. You'd be incredibly famous for doing so and finally internet warriors would have a source to cite for their outrageous dreams.

xoxo (Gossip Girl)

 

[sonofcablemonster]

I find it amusing how people think the CBOT pit stories are relevant to the modern day when the people who made their money during that era are the very first to say the inefficiencies that made them rich no longer exist and have all diversified their funds, heavily influenced by Renaissance et al.

It suggests a completely blinkered read of the Wizards series where Schwager has gone to significant lengths to note the incredible inefficiencies back then and the ease of riding moves in the pit. News trades didn't used to happen in 3 ticks for 50 pts. You could fill or kill all the way up. That was the era where greed rather than sense really was a killer of bankrolls. Even Trading in the Zone was relevant back then. Now you need an incredible amount of sense with application and greed to sustain that.

But whatever, if you want to believe you can turn 25k into many millions during this era then feel free. You'd be incredibly famous for doing so and finally internet warriors would have a source to cite for their outrageous dreams.

xoxo (Gossip Girl)

Oh come of it. I know at least 2 members on this site that drive lambos and go to bed with empty sacks EVERY night.

 

[BSD]

Gossip girl, the prop traders I'm talking about aren't history from the 80's, twi isn't history, he wrote that piece just a couple of years ago, never having more than 20 - 40 K in his account, making 25 - 35 % per month.

I had less than 50k starting out and am making 20 - 40% per month.

ALL THIS OF COURSE ON A NON_COMPOUNDING BASIS !!!

It is TOTALLY possible, you just need to have the balls to do what needs to be done.

Of course most will fail, that's just the nature of the world.

But for someone to claim to have the holy grail...

50K of his own money...

rich friends...

a fully mechanical system which can thus be automated...

presumably a day job as what's he living from else ?!?

BUT NOT THE BALLS TO PULL THE TRIGGER ???

 

[random12345]

Oh come of it. I know at least 2 members on this site that drive lambos and go to bed with an empty sack EVERY night.

I assume you mean smoke Lamberts and sleep in a potato sack.

 

[random12345]

Gossip girl, the prop traders I'm talking about aren't history from the 80's, twi isn't history, he wrote that piece just a short few years ago, never having more than 20 - 40 K in his account, making 25 - 35 % per month.

I had less than 50k starting out and am making 20 - 40% per month.

ALL THIS OF COURSE ON A NON_COMPOUNDING BASIS !!!

It is TOTALLY possible, you just need to have the balls to do what needs to be done.

Of course most will fail, that's just the nature of the world.

But for someone to claim to have the holy grail...

50K of his own money...

rich friends...

a fully mechanical system which can thus be automated...

presumably a day job as what's he living from else ?!?

BUT NOT THE BALLS TO PULL THE TRIGGER ???

How I read it was that I think this guy wanted to make real money from a 'professional' system while the edge existed.

Alpha doesn't last long.

 

[BSD]

How I read it was that I think this guy wanted to make real money from a 'professional' system while the edge existed.

To be honest I think teh guy is soliciting money from muppets who are still wondering what happened to Santa Claus.

But let's assume he's for real, then he's got more than enough money to get started, or to to approach his rich friends he mentioned if he wants more.

So I really don't get what he's on about.

Every journey starts with knowing exactly what you want, having the burning desire to get there, absolute belief in eventual results, then taking the first step, but you've got to have the balls to take that, and then persevering in the face of inevitable adfversity.

THAT I think is the diiference between those who succeed in life vs the rest who end up somewhere they never wanted to.

TWI again ,the guy who started at a prop firm and is now at a hedfge fund:

"I know a room full of people who make their living, a good living for most of them and at the beginning of the month never have a balance above £20k.
I never keep more than 35k in my account".
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/fir...do-you-need-trade-full-time-2.html#post121512

"Many people think if you make 20-30% a year that you are doing brilliantly well. Many here will make 50-100% per month. It is not a methodology you could apply to large amounts of capital such as fund trading but for individuals accounts it cannot be bettered. I know as I traded professionally for many years before I went out on my own."
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/edu...er-richer-than-most-traders-2.html#post372798

 

[BSD]

Arabianights is another member here at a trading firm who has colleagues making similar returns in this very day and age to what TWI's were doing.

There is a lot that is possible under the sun if you set your mind to it, but don't just dream about it, but get the balls to go out there and actually walk the talk !

 

[Liquid validity]

I don't think anyone buys into the claims of the OP.
That would be nuts as they are just that - claims.
Most people with any sense know that most of the stuff
on the internet is bo11ocks without proof.
So not sure what the argument is TBH?

Is this an argument over claimed returns, potential returns
or is it to do with the mention of mechanical / automation?
None of which alters the fact that the OP's claims are baseless
it has to be said.

 

[random12345]

I absolutely agree this guy should be trading before he approaches anybody - I stated a 12 mth track record for him as a minimum and I think he's likely made a serious mistake in his back testing.

However, if successful in this venture and he wants to go system forex edge (these being the forex boards...) rather than milking calendar spreads or outright volume based trading on futures (which I think is being referred to in these posts about trading 'success') then he needs half decent advice for his limited alpha before it dies along with his chances. Don't think that's confusing!

 

[Liquid validity]

Another thing I'd just like to say, I have a lot of respect for Random,
he knows his stuff.

Same for BSD, although he doesn't really know me as I wasn't here when he was
posting regularly before coming back now.

Could I possibly suggest a bit of chillax
I think you are both broadly on the same page anyway
Don't let me stop either of you, but I'm not getting involved in this one

 

[Liquid validity]

I stated a 12 mth track record for him as a minimum and I think he's likely made a serious mistake in his back testing.

F**k it, said I wouldn't get involved any further here...

I agree with the quote, he's obviously doing manual backtesting.
That alone is imprecise, but also prone to the kind of skewing
that comes with manual testing - choosing the favourable outcome
in a situation where it should really be logged as a loss.
Do that enough times and there's your 750...

So in other words, he may well be a shyster, but equally likely,
could be taking a completely flawed approach to backtesting.

 

[random12345]

Another thing I'd just like to say, I have a lot of respect for Random,
he knows his stuff.

Same for BSD, although he doesn't really know me as I wasn't here when he was
posting regularly before coming back now.

Could I possibly suggest a bit of chillax
I think you are both broadly on the same page anyway
But don't let me stop either of you, but I'm not getting involved in this one

I honestly didn't think we were arguing, more like talking at cross-purposes. I agree that edges do still exist with small rolls in the futures markets and maybe in spot fx too, but that the idea of becoming very big from nothing on your own in the electronic era of trading like the CBOT ubermensch of the 80s is about as likely as CM getting into the House of Lords.

 

[BSD]

Liquid nah I've had my say, I hope my days of going on about stuff like this are done with.



These days I at least strive, ahem, for Zen like Detachment.

Peace.

 

[VielGeld]

I seriously doubt he has anything. I've been in the position before where I thought I had fully researched a strat and it seemed like a sure-fire money-maker. But turns out there was one small bit of info I was missing that invalidated it... Which I discovered right after market close. Good times.

Point is, he may simply not have done enough research. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject here, but I doubt alpha is discoverable by the retail trader these days.

 

[BSD]

And oh yes final word here from me on this thread, if against all odds the OP is for real, the best advice buddy is this, just go out there and do it !!!

You've got way enough money to take the risk of losing at worst, what, 20 to 30 K you couldn't even start a McDonalds with before you pull the plug, while on the upside you have the potential of turning that into 450K in the first year ?!

And if you're for real, good luck too.

And that's me outta here.