Best Thread Capital Spreads

crap buddist

It would be a bit difficult if we provided both the exchange data AND our own price data as this would surely be a conflict of interest.

Slightly bizarre, that bit. If your data is correct then shouldn't it always be the same as the 'real' data, allowing for your spread?
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Cancel trade requests

We are not going to allow clients to just cancel trade requests. Sorry but it is just not going to happen. Either the trade gets accepted or rejected. Black or White. Trade processing is down to seconds these days anyway so this should not be an issue anymore anyway. Processing of orders is a different matter as we are talking about standing intructions left with CS as the market moves through a trigger point (the price set by you, the client). Whether we fill these in a second or in 20 seconds makes no odds as the event of the activation is not in doubt. Over a data release we will get hundreds of orders activated in a couple of seconds. Unfortunately we still have to ensure that the activation of the orders is 'fair' for the client. This can take a while.


What does, 'fair to the client' mean? If your prices are correct, why do dealers need to do this, anyway?


'We are not just going to let clients cancel trade requests.'

If you can, why can't we? And is it fair for the bookie to wait for the odds to move in his favour before accepting the bet?
 
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What does, 'fair to the client' mean? If your prices are correct, why do dealers need to do this, anyway?


'We are not just going to let clients cancel trade requests.'

If you can, why can't we? And is it fair to wait for the bookie to wait for the odds to move in his favour before accepting the bet?
The figures of the real market are not the same as that of SB feed, but the movement is. The actual problem for the SB is the fixed spread, when the real market spread is wider (e.g. FX during news), you might not get filled, or even get delay and slippage.
 
Cancel trade requests

We are not going to allow clients to just cancel trade requests. Sorry but it is just not going to happen.

Simon
I think that is a major problem. CMC were offering this years ago.

In a reasonably lively market the price will frequently move far in excess of your spread while your dealers look at their screens for 5 or 10 seconds, or as long as they feel like it.

So when it goes in your favour you would take the trade, and when against you reject it?? That is virtually a licence for you to print money, why would anyone trade with those odds stacked against them?
 
I think that is a major problem. CMC were offering this years ago.

In a reasonably lively market the price will frequently move far in excess of your spread while your dealers look at their screens for 5 or 10 seconds, or as long as they feel like it.

So when it goes in your favour you would take the trade, and when against you reject it?? That is virtually a licence for you to print money, why would anyone trade with those odds stacked against them?
"In a reasonably lively market the price will frequently move far in excess of your spread" I do not agree, today it is very hard to take advantage of a lagging quote, if there is any lagging at all to speak of.

Do you trade with CS? If you don't, how do you know there is a problem?
 
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The figures of the real market are not the same as that of SB feed, but the movement is. The actual problem for the SB is the fixed spread, when the real market spread is wider (e.g. FX during news), you might not get filled, or even get delay and slippage.

If the quote is supposedly for the same market, I'd say the mid price should be the same. If not, they might as well have things like the CS American Dream instead of the Dow and the FTSE Fantasy Fun 100.
 
Gle.

"The figures of the real market are not the same as that of SB feed, but the movement is".

I think you've mentioned this previously and I asked a question to which you didn't reply.

If this was the case, the underlying price could be 100 but CS may quote 1000. If the price rises by 50 points to 150, then according to your statement, CS's price will also move by 50 points to 1050. So if you went long at 1000 while the underlying was 100, you would still make 50 points profit. In other words, both the underlying price and SB's price are total irrelevant; the only factor is the movement on the underlying.

Two points - no way is this the case; I honestly don't believe you believe this - where did you get this info?

Grant.
 
Gle.

"The figures of the real market are not the same as that of SB feed, but the movement is".

I think you've mentioned this previously and I asked a question to which you didn't reply.

If this was the case, the underlying price could be 100 but CS may quote 1000. If the price rises by 50 points to 150, then according to your statement, CS's price will also move by 50 points to 1050. So if you went long at 1000 while the underlying was 100, you would still make 50 points profit. In other words, both the underlying price and SB's price are total irrelevant; the only factor is the movement on the underlying.

Two points - no way is this the case; I honestly don't believe you believe this - where did you get this info?

Grant.
Sorry if I missed your question. There seems to be a lot of DMA traders on this thread who don't understand how a SB company operates. You have understood it correctly. As you are saying "price are total irrelevant; the only factor is the actual movement on the underlying". If this wasn't the case I would be as rich as a Swedish "hobgoblin" arbitrating like crazy. How do I come to this conclusion? By trading constantly SB for 3 years, and monitoring and comparing the real underlying feed against the SB quote. Please explain why you think this is not the case.
 
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"In a reasonably lively market the price will frequently move far in excess of your spread" I do not agree, today it is very hard to take advantage of a lagging quote, if there is any lagging at all to speak of.

Do you trade with CS? If you don't, how do you know there is a problem?

Im not sure I understand your point. Simon has confirmed that at CS, their dealers sit and decide whether to accept a trade or not. I have had personal experience that they accept trades when the price goes against you and not the other way round. That matches the exeperience of at least 15 other people I know. We cant all be wrong.
 
Gle,

"Please explain why you think this is not the case".

99% of criticisms re SB's is about the flexibility and inconsistent practises regarding prices.

Grant.
 
Gle,

"Please explain why you think this is not the case".

99% of criticisms re SB's is about the flexibility and inconsistent practises regarding prices.

Grant.
This was absolutely no answer to my question. Please present facts why the SB quote differs from that of the underlying asset.
 
Im not sure I understand your point. Simon has confirmed that at CS, their dealers sit and decide whether to accept a trade or not. I have had personal experience that they accept trades when the price goes against you and not the other way round. That matches the exeperience of at least 15 other people I know. We cant all be wrong.
Zuke, a couple of months back, this problem occurred. Then suddenly, about a month or so back, this stopped altogether and execution has since then, become almost instant. Also the problem with positions not showing up in the open position have vanished altogether. Simon announced that there was a major upgrade during this time and that things ought to run more smoothly now. Simon has also confirmed that there has been some hardware problem due to the increasing number of clients, but, according to him, it has now been taken care by the new hardware upgrade. Whether you believe him or not, is totally up to you. I can only report my own experience as someone who is actively trading with them. If someone else has another opinion, let them present it with facts on this board. Honestly, the only thing that irritates me, is, that a lot of traders have viewpoints on how it is to trade with CS today, when, they are in fact, not trading with them at all.

I have stated a couple of times on this thread, that trading the news could be a risky undertaking. If the real spread is wider than the SB quote, just previous to the news release, and you hit the buy button when the news is released, what price do you expect to get, cheaper than the real market? Delay and slippage could also be a problem trading the news. However, even during volatile times such as news releases, I find things have improved considerably.

It is every trader's responsibility to take all the risk factors into consideration, and not to blame the SB indefinitely for losing trades. If you think that the odds are too much stacked against you, move on to another SB company or go to DMA. Apparently as CS have a staggering growth of new clients, the traffic seems to go in the other direction.
 
If the real spread is wider than the SB quote, just previous to the news release, and you hit the buy button when the news is released, what price do you expect to get, cheaper than the real market?
QUOTE]

Yes, actually, because that's what the SB company is quoting and that's the price we have to trade, not the real market, as stressed in the T&Cs!
 
If the real spread is wider than the SB quote, just previous to the news release, and you hit the buy button when the news is released, what price do you expect to get, cheaper than the real market?
QUOTE]

Yes, actually, because that's what the SB company is quoting and that's the price we have to trade, not the real market, as stressed in the T&Cs!
The SB will not give away money for free, that is one thing that is for certain. In some way or the other they will balance this out. They can re-quote, price no longer valid, delay, or give you a slippage. The MiFID financial "Best execution" directive can work in the SB's favor as well as against them. If they give you a price according to the movement of the underlying asset, they are free to do so as I see it.
 
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Gle,

How do you reconcile MiFID's "Best Execution" with SB's who determine their own prices?

Grant.
 
A controversial line is about to be used but it is of one that will end the conversation....(never..it will never end)

I'm sure with this line will come critisism and remarks like....tax breaks ect ect.
There not that bad..blah blah blah.

Bottom line is spread betting is gambling..no ifs..no buts. You are a gambler and with this comes tax breaks..great..but...try getting a mortgage (without lieing). Try getting any form of personal credit without having to pay extortionate rates. Try getting a car on hire purchase. Try borrowing £10 from your bank manager...Banks dont lend to gamblers..well only one but I dont know where the bank of Carlsberg is.

Direct access is trading the markets directly...hence the title. You become a trader. Pay tax as you should to contribute to the country you live/reside in. Pro's are that you can easily get credit and at good rates(assuming your good at your trading) and can call yourself a trader 'for real'.



Heres the line.

Stop gambling and go direct access.....no more bad fills...no more being ripped off...no more hassle and suspicion...no more chat about spreadbetters...leaves more time to concentrate on the markets as oppose to worrying whether your filled or not, or slips or whether the company will go bust and take your money with it(fsa protected upto £whatever).....and most of all....End of conversation.

Now lets get back to work and earn some money.
 
I have stated a couple of times on this thread, that trading the news could be a risky undertaking. If the real spread is wider than the SB quote, just previous to the news release, and you hit the buy button when the news is released, what price do you expect to get, cheaper than the real market? Delay and slippage could also be a problem trading the news. However, even during volatile times such as news releases, I find things have improved considerably.

Yes, trading the news is risky. What I need if I am trying it is predictability of risk. So I need to know that the platform behaves pretty consistently, and that the messages it gives about trades are accurate. Yes, all platforms I have tried have occasional glitches - maybe they will just freeze for a while, with no activity; I have had this on CMC, and even on IG. My PC is not very new, but I have no way of knowing what is down to my PC and what is down to the platform or to overloaded servers at the SB company.

The problems which stopped me trading the news at all with CS were 1. slow fills, during which time the price may move considerably 2. same problem on trying to exit a trade 3. trade rejected due to "price no longer valid", possibly combined with the delay, meaning it was not possible to take advantage of quick and sizeable price moves. This also could happen on trying to exit a trade. 4. the problem others have recently mentioned, of a trade apparently being rejected, not appearing in "open positions", but then popping up later in "open positions"

For me to risk trying trading the news again on CS, I need to know that all these problems have been consistently fixed. You say that there has been an improvement since a recent upgrade - maybe I will try a trade or two at non-news times and see what the fill speed is like.

But I have to say IG fills very fast. True, I have occasionally had "price no longer valid" - but it is fairly rare compared to what I used to get way back with CS.

I rated CMC fairly highly at first, but one bad experience made me wary there too. They do generally fill fast, they give you a requote if not filled at original price, and sometimes while your order is pending you can cancel it (not always - depends how fast they fill). But when I was trading oil after the Weds. 1530 inventory announcement a few weeks back, there seemed to be a delay on their prices. I opened a trade and then found that I could not close it - even when they offered me a requote and I pressed to accept it, they said I had timed out. They did refund me some money when I raised the issue, but without getting to the bottom of what caused the problem. Unlike IG, CMC and CS do not allow you to preset a stop when you open a trade, and unlike CS they do not set their own stop for you (admittedly at a rather distant level for me), so there is no limit to the short-term loss if this sort of error occurs.

I have decided that CS platform scores in one respect; it is possible to open the order book in one broswer window, the prices page in another so as to open a deal ticket for a new trade, and the open positions in a third window to close existing trades. In fact I find the platform unusable at speed without having all these windows open. I used to think this a disadvantage of the platform; but on IG, if you want to change your stop level, you have to close the deal ticket which allows you to close the trade. So if trading in a fast moving market, you can find that while you are moving your stop closer to take advantage of your gains, the price turns against you, and by the time you have closed the "change stop" window and opend the deal ticket to close the trade, your profits may have gone. Whereas with separate windows in CS, resized so all can be viewed simultaneously, this is not a problem.

To those who say "don't spreadbet at all, use some other way", my response is that I - and presumably others - have reasons for using SB. Given that, the question is what we can legitimately expect. I don't think all SB companies are just rip-off merchants, but obviously they are running a busines and are not going to give away free money.

What I do expect is that mistakes are rectified - they often have been for me, but not always. I find CS no better or worse than others in this respect.

What I also expect is a decent platform that works at reasonable speed without repeating the same errors on a regular basis - and, ideally that the platform incoprorates good features from competitors.
 
I think despite all the to'ing and fro'ing - and unintentional muddying of the water... that personally I am still not clear as to what constitutes a palpable error, and therefore what and when does a trade constitute the existence of a legally enforceable contract. Especially given this clause can be claimed hours after the event. After all, as other have said, at some point there has to be a contract in existence.

Is it 5 pips, 10 pips, 50 pips difference from the price they client got and the price that CS could see.

And if so, who does the client talk to about why they were rejected on a trade where the price went 5 pips in their favour during the "dealer holding" stage, and yet can easily come out of that "holding stage" with a trade that is 5pips + spread underwater.

Cheers,
Dave
 
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